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Please share your tips on how to record professional / studio quality bass

#61
Your hardware sounds solid. I have been mixing and mastering my own tracks (check out my bandcamp link). My mixing bass tips: Mids are your friend. Sub bass freqs needs to be high passed (at least a little - they take up a lot of room in a compressor and make the compressor work harder on the sub bass freqs). Some software compressors have a side chain where you can tell the compressor what freqs to compress as well. I also use the "Warren Huart Trick" by doubling the bass track and separating them by lows and highs and processing them separately and bussing those two tracks together, bassically bi-amping the signal. I also have Two Notes Cab sim software that helps create a more "realistic" tone, if that is what you're going for. Some of the bass amp sims also have a choice of cabs and mics.

Also - Practice, practice, practice! Mixing and mastering are skills like anything else and the more you do it the better you'll get at it.
 
#62
Esteban Garcia said:
You're right,, especially in pop/rock where virtually every recording is some kind of composite of many performances, often in different times and places. (Not to mention sequenced tracks.)

Jazz and classical though, you're going with the best take from an ensemble moving the same air in the same room at the same time, at least in the ideal case.

I concede that my advice against punch ins and stringing together parts from different takes is a purist ideal. I've found it works best for me to avoid those techniques, but i don't play pop/rock.

Bottom line, I'm just saying the same thing a you, I think: you have to start with the best performance you can muster, then shine it up to the degree the genre you're playing warrants.:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I play rock and I push people, when I'm the engineer, to record in one take and try not to cut and paste. Doing comps on a unique part, a solo, a bridge, is one thing, but songs usually should have a dynamic and tempo arc. Chorus 1, Chorus 2, Chorus 3 may be the same words and melody but being the same exact tempo or intensity or inflection is often a missed opportunity. Even if very much overdubbing for bleed reasons or because the songs still have some improvised parts, I want to get a tempo mapped drum part first with scratch tracks for all the dynamic and tempo changes. I can do studio tricks to add dynamics, but no magic can do better than the humans playing/singing with a different type or level of emotion.
 
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#63
If you have a decent bass and it's well setup, and your technique is okay...then the less there is between your bass and the recorded track the better. But everybody has their own opinion. Only your experience and trial and error will reveal the best method.
 
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#64
I've spent some time as an amateur learning and practicing studio production, and what I've found is that bass tends to take the most work to sit in a mix. It's because the instrument spans so much range between its fundamental and highest overtones, and these overtones tend to clash with other instruments and end up sounding muddy.

First of all, this is long, but this forum thread is amazing for conceptualizing and understanding home recording: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=29283

Also, this book was excellent: https://www.amazon.com/Recording-Secrets-Small-Studio-Presents-ebook/dp/B00MX0EC8G

Here are some tips that I keep in mind when writing, arranging, recording, and mixing bass:
1) Performance is extremely important. Rehearse it, play it well, make sure your levels are consistent throughout the track, and get the best possible tone when you're tracking. The more you get done at this stage, the less you'll have to do later. If you punch in a lot, adjust your clip gain for each individual recorded piece before mixing the track as a whole.
2) Arrangement is important. Make sure the song is dynamic. All instruments playing loudly all the time will probably sound bad.
3) None of your instruments, including bass, should be mixed in isolation. Bass that sounds amazing in a mix might sound like trash when solo'd. And that's OK! In other words, don't EQ an instrument solo'd when you're trying to make it fit in a mix; rather, mix it against the whole song. (EQing in solo is good for sound design, but that's not really what you're asking about.)
4) Bass is felt, not heard. When you hear bass you like in a song that's mixed well, you're really hearing the mids/low mids. Keep this in mind when EQing.
5) Bass frequencies trigger compressors earlier than higher frequencies. So when you're compressing bass, your HPF is your friend. Otherwise you might lose your low end. Parallel compression can address this too.
6) Sidechaining your kick drum to your bass track with a compressor with a carefully adjusted attack can be a great tool to make these two competing frequency hogs sound tight. You don't have to go all Daft Punk here....a little goes a long way. (I've also found Trackspacer to be a great tool for making your kick drum and bass work together, if you're looking to spend money on plugins - this is more like a sidechain EQ but it's pretty great).
7) Listen to the transient. Make your transient sound good.
8) Parallel saturation is a neat trick that will give you some nice warmth while not killing your low end with higher order harmonics.
9) Monitoring. This should really be #1. If you can't hear what you're mixing, you can't mix accurately. If you're mixing on headphones or computer speakers, and you're looking for something to spend money on, spend it on monitors. I use a pair of Kali LP-6 monitors and they sound excellent. I think a pair goes for around $400. You want speakers that are flat and clinical, not hifi speakers that flatter any frequencies in particular.
10) Use reference tracks. You like McCartney's Rick on "Come Together"? Listen to it closely - can you try to match the round, sort of open bottom end? Can you get something similar to that chunky picked transient? Can you get it to sit in your mix like Geoff Emerick did on his?
11) Listen to your final mix on as many speakers as possible. poopy car speakers, hifi stereo systems, ear buds.
12) Listen to your mix in mono and stereo. Most people listen to music in environments where the stereo spread is less than ideal - if it sounds good in stereo but bad in mono then your mix is not done.
13) Subscribe to Tape Op. If you're in the US, it's free!

I'm still learning this stuff too, so if I'm wrong about any of this, I hope someone more experienced out there can correct me. Anyway good luck, it's a lot of fun, and incredibly satisfying when you create a final mix you can be proud of.
 
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#65
BaldingEagle said:
... to help improve my playing and help me learn how to record professional / studio quality bass....
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@BaldingEagle : Two completely different subjects; (1) How to Improve Your Playing; (2) How to Record Bass.

Since this is the recording sub-forum, I will share how I have approached #2.

For this whole year, I have been recording right into my interface. No DI box, no external pre-amps or EQ. Sometimes I do go through an optical compressor pedal on the way into the interface. I also have used other effect pedals (like a POG and others) on the way in.

I have stopped mic-cing amps and cabs and have stopped playing into an amp and taking a DI signal from the amp to the interface.

This is working for me and my style of music. I can add amps in the box, if I want (Amplitube). I am getting the sound and tone that I want. I been trying to keep my levels WAY down - peak -30 dBFS to -20 peak dBFS peak. I am very happy with the results.

Why record so low? If interested, you can read the threads over on the duc.avid.com forums, but for DAW recording: "First consider that a 24bit fixed-point wav file has 144dB theoretical dynamics. Then take a close look at your converter specifications. If it says it has 124dB dynamics (that would be a good one), then you lose nothing if your levels PEAK at 124-144=-20dBFS which would be a nice headroom for occasional transients higher than the meter ballistics can show you.".

I use a Scarlett 18i20 which has a published dynamic range of ~110 dB, so recording above -30 dBFS is only increasing the noise floor and not adding anything to the recording. It does lead to more headroom for fast transient peaks and totally gets me away from any digital clipping.

Depending on the style of music you play, you will need to experiment to see what works for you. Lots of good advice in the other posts here.
 
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#68
The environment you listen to playback can drastically change how your bass sounds in context…

That said I’ve gotten the best bass sounds (for what I’m after) I’ve ever captured using a mic’d up B15 with an old EV dynamic and then running everything with a brainworx Neve or Focusrite mixer plug on each channel.

I’ve found that playing techniques make a bigger difference than you’d think…playing a bass near the bridge vs close to the neck…pick vs fingers…roundwounds vs flat wounds… all of these little things can have profound effects on how bass sits in the mix.
 
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#70
Try out different basses for different tracks or songs. One song might need a short scale and another might need a long scale etc. Sometimes turning the volume knob down on the bass can change the sound if it allows you to attack more without clipping.

Spend a lot of time playing with the graphic eq visualizer learning what you gain or lose when you boost or cut frequencies. This was one of the most valuable tools I learned when I began using a DAW. It actually helped me understand my bass amp for performance as well since I had a better idea of what each frequency when added or cut would sound like.

As far as parts that you record, it can sometime be hard for the creator to recognize that it will be impossible for the listener to actively hear every nuance or detail of a bass part or any part for that matter. Somethings will be buried or cloaked, but that is good because great art leaves a lot of opportunity for reexamination.
 
#71
To add - Acoustic treatment in your listening environment is key. If your room accentuates bass freqs then when mixing that will be compensated by lowering the bass in the mix and it will sound thin when listening in other listening environments. There is software - Most notably Sonarworks Reference - that take room and headphone acoustics and make them have a flatter freq response so you can make better mixing decisions. I can't mix without it.
 
#72
I agree with others.

Quality instrument
Fingers/performance
Bit of EQ
Bit of compression or not if you play consistently
A direct line, which have, and a mic send. Most cant do this do volume.
Save your favourite presets in Cubase.
 
#73
I haven't read any other posts in this thread at this point. IMO having decent equipment is never a bad thing, but it's not the "size" of your DI that matters, it's how you use it ;). Which is to say that there are more/other important, and perhaps intangible, aspects to getting a good professional sounding track, IMO and IME, regardless of what equipment you’re using. I’ve recorded songs in big professional studios that never saw the light of day, and I’ve recorded stuff from my basement office that’s been played on the radio.

Here's a few quick thoughts I have for you:
  1. Make sure the drum take is good before you start. Do any major drum editing/fixing before you start on the bass.
  2. If it's a primarily guitar driven song (or any other instrument for that matter), you may even want guitar tracks done first, depending on how the bass is working with the guitar.
  3. For a vocal-led song, best to lock in tight with the drums and keep your playing more on the simple side, especially if the vocals aren't done yet. If you don't know what the final vocal phrasing is going to be, best to stay out of the way as much as possible. If the vocal parts are written (or better yet if you have a scratch track), and you know where you have a bit of room to play, then you can add in some flourishes at appropriate parts in the song without trampling all over the vocals.
  4. I like to record maybe 2-3 passes (or 6-10 :p) through the song from start to finish, and then "comp" them, or selecting the best individual parts of each take, for the final track. After you've got your comp track, then you can focus on any last little punch-ins that need fixing.
    1. When editing comps and punch-ins, always try to place your crossfades at points of silence wherever possible. Don't be afraid to zoom in all the way when you're dragging your crossfade around. Re-record longer sections if you need to, if only to find a good moment of silence (even a split second) between beats to join your takes.
  5. Top priority for recording should be a strong clean signal into the board/interface. Your signal level should be hitting approx -12 to -6 dB on the meter.
  6. While getting a decent tone in the ballpark of what you want for the track on the way in is great, I would recommend any drastic EQing, distorting, amp sims, and/or compressing should be applied after the fact.
    1. Endlessly playing with plugins and twiddling knobs to get the tone "perfect" on the way in is a GREAT way to lose an entire evening of productivity. Get a solid basic, appropriate sound to start with, and then focus on getting the take done and edited to completion. "Finished" is almost always better than "perfect" at the tracking stage. "perfect" is achieved during mixing ;)
  7. Mixing should be done during mixing phase and in conjunction with all the other instruments on the track. Try not to make too many mix decisions on the way in, especially if the other instruments aren't there yet.
    1. It's easy to add distortion after the fact if it's appropriate. But if you come in hot from the start with a tonne of effects on the recording, it's almost impossible to clean that up after the fact if it's not jiving with the rest of the mix.
    2. Same with EQing. Boost a bit on the way in if you feel it's appropriate, but I try not to cut too much from anywhere on the way in. You can always boost and cut during mixing later, but if you cut too much on the way in it's impossible to boost back frequencies that aren't there.
  8. Your main priority during tracking should be that the signal is strong but not clipping, and free of extraneous noise. But most importantly that the playing is tight with the rest of the instrumentation. I don't care how great your tone is, if the playing is sloppy and/or out of time it's not going to sound good.
  9. TUNE OFTEN. Especially at the beginning of a session. Tune between every take if you have to. If you can't remember when the last time was that you tuned, then tune again.
  10. My recommendation is to learn how to work with DI for recording. Micing up a bass amp can be challenging (IME) and opens up a bunch of additional cans of worms with regards to capturing the signal. DI is a great way to get things started, and amp sims and plugins are pretty amazing these days.
that's just for tracking. Mixing is a whole 'nother story.
 
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#75
SteveCS said:
Nice idea, except that 99.9% of people in 99.9% of circumstances don't have that option.

YMMV
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Absolutely true... And all the studios are closing. When I see pros recording on Youtube, It looks like they are in some empty room in the house with some baffling added. I guess everybody is a do-it yourselfer these days.

My last real studio call was at Muscle Shoals in 2016? and it sucked. Lets just say if Billy Eilish had a no-talent brother.
 
#76
Lowbrow said:
IMHO Ampeg SVT Suite is pretty great, too. I used to set up a complicated signal chain to my interface --- SVT Suite replaced all those complications with better results. Great flexibility. Costs some $ but IMO well worth it.
Click to expand...
They occasionally have sales for this suite. They just had one and I missed it. You need to get on their emailing list to find out.
 
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#77
Bass can be a stinker when recording. It can murkify the mix, get in the way of the kick drum. You can lose frequencies. Even notes or parts that you're playing can disappear. Most bass recording problems, just like most live sound problems, concern the holistic mix of each track.

I'm no expert. I'm struggling with it myself right now. Here are some small advices.

1) Make sure that your bass frequencies are out of the way of the kick drum. This can include prime frequencies in the lows and low mids. Don't sweat it. You may want to scoop some low mids out of the kick, but it's your job to make room for the kick, just like guitars gotta make some room for you. Generally use an HPF on bass guitar.

2) Make sure that guitars and keys are out of the way of the bass. Put an HPF on fat guitars if your bass sounds good solo or with drums, but murky once the other instruments come in.

4) In a rock or pop mix, some parallel saturation can make the notes easier to hear if you're losing some content. I like clean bass, but sometimes if you mix it with just a bit of scuzz you'll get some additional harmonics that make the bass more audible.

If you have ears and tolerable gear, your bass probably sounds good on its own. The problem is that there's a lot of crowding in the lows and lower mids, which is what makes a mix sound amateur. The best engineers, musicians and producers can make a mix sound fat while insuring that the frequencies don't mask each other. Many of them have tricks that they deploy artfully to do some rather bold tweaking while keeping the mix sounding natural. For example, Butch Vig would scoop as much as 8-10 db of lower mids from the drum set in order to make room for dense guitar and bass sounds.

If you can, listen to isolated bass tracks of songs you love. On a good portion of them, the isolated sounds are harsh, middy and just plain weird, but they work in the mix. Of course there are exceptions, but you're not looking for a good bass sound. You're looking for a good sounding mix, with bass tracks that sound good in context.
 
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#78
BaldingEagle said:
Hi TalkBass Community.

I'm new to this forum and desperately trying to stay away from all the gear threads (but failing) preferring to focus on discussions that are going to help improve my playing and help me learn how to record professional / studio quality bass.

Although not a complete novice to home recording I don't feel I've really mastered it as a skill and I'm looking for any advice / guidance / tips that the TalkBass community can offer me.

I use Cubase as my DAW and have a pretty good understanding of how it works. I also have some of the required equipment at my disposal:

- DI options: Radial Pro 48 DI box or DI out of my GR Bass head.
- Audio Interface: SSL 2 channel AI
- DAW plugins (IR cab sims, Cubase's standard suit of tools (reverb, compression, eq etc.)

I'm willing to invest in other plugin's if needed and potentially a decent microphone for the cab.

Please do share your wisdom with me; any links to articles or YouTube tutorials also very welcome.

Thanks
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Depends.

Are you doing this because you intend to record and mix at home?

If you’re doing this for remote session work (or even just saving money by tracking your parts at home) all you really need is a good clean DI recording and from there the engineer or producer will make it sound amazing. They’ll take your recording and remap it run it through their preferred plug-ins.

what you have is perfectly useable as long as your touch, timing, and groove are on point.
 
#79
BaldingEagle said:
Yeah, I don't have any issues with the gear - I just feel the end product could be better produced / mixed / mastered.



Certainly I need to work on playing cleanly, and in the pocket more consistently. But let's assume a reasonable level of competency for the sake of this thread so as to focus on some of the more technical aspects of recording / producing.



Assume for now I'm recording pre-composed bass lines not original / improvised lines. Initially I want to get some decent sounding clips of some 'standards' I can use as examples to submit to potential bands as virtual audition pieces.
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What are you using for monitoring when you’re mixing/mastering?

Headphones, reference monitors? Which ones? Is your room treated?
 

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