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Pointless Alcohol laws......

#21
jrthebassguy said:
That's a respectable position, yet you stated that you drank alot in your 18-20 days. How can you support one position when you did the exact opposite? I don't want to pull the "Do as I say, not as I do" card but it looks an awful lot like it.
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Quite possibly because he's speaking from experience. He's not trolling around saying "Hey guys, I've got this killer story...I was SOOOO drunk, and..." -- he's saying "Hey guys, when you're 18, you're probably not going to make the best choices. I've done it, and I've seen it."

That said...there ARE laws against public drunkenness. If your buddy was drunk, then I doubt that he has a better idea of *how drunk* he was over that of the cops observing him. I dunno. Just logical.
 
#23
superbassman2000 said:
The only real beef i have with drinking age is that soldiers still can't drink...I mean, they go to war for the country, see all the horrible sights of war, come home and when they ask for a drink, they can't have one!
I think it's strange that america's 16-20 year olds are old enough to kill for their country, but can't have a drink! that reminds me of that one song, "you're old enough to kill, but not for voting"
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that any member of any branch of the US Armed Forces may drink when on-base and off-duty.
 
#24
dannyboy15 said:
It's because back in the prehistoric days these laws didn't apply to the 18 year olds of that time.
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Wrong actually. I'm 41. When I was 18, the drinking age in Ohio got changed to 19. They did not "grandfather" anyone, so basically, I was legal to drink for 6 months, then illegal for six months. Sure I hated it then, but now, being a bit older and perhaps a bit wiser, I think a 21 drinking age is a good idea.
 
#25
Its 18 nationally over here.
And homebrew and the like is all legal (unlike Malaysia etc..) too.

I kinda feel sorry for all you Yanks - can drive sooooo early but can't get alcohol without hassling someone a few years older.............very uncool. Us aussies can pretty much learn to drive and buy alcohol a year later - maybe not the smartest timing - but pleasant for the youth (that survive):cool:
 
#26
cheezewiz said:
Wrong actually. I'm 41. When I was 18, the drinking age in Ohio got changed to 19. They did not "grandfather" anyone, so basically, I was legal to drink for 6 months, then illegal for six months. Sure I hated it then, but now, being a bit older and perhaps a bit wiser, I think a 21 drinking age is a good idea.
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Yet 18 works so well in most other countries I just don't see what the problem is.
 
#28
dannyboy15 said:
Yet 18 works so well in most other countries I just don't see what the problem is.
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(Good morning, Cheeze) That's an opinion, not a fact....but let's run with it: Completely different cultures. As an example (and one I introduced, so the continuity is there) ask the average Brit how many miles he averages a year behind the wheel of a car. Now compare that answer to yours. We could get further into this, but I just woke up and it's 4:30 AM.
jrthebassguy said:
That's a respectable position, yet you stated that you drank alot in your 18-20 days. How can you support one position when you did the exact opposite? I don't want to pull the "Do as I say, not as I do" card but it looks an awful lot like it.
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What it really looks like is "Do as I say, not as I did". Really, Tim and Aaron Saunders pretty much covered my reasoning for my position, but I'll add a little. It's quite easy to say at my age (30). I no longer live in the shadow of peer pressure or my parent's disapproval of my actions. Looking back, ignoring my friends and calling the old man would have been a better choice than covering up one eye to correct my double vision while I cruised down the freeway.

Mike
 
#29
cheezewiz said:
You're 19. (Not that there is anything wrong with that...I'd love to be 19), but...that proves my point.
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I'll still be opposed to this when i'm 40.

mike_v_s said:
(Good morning, Cheeze) That's an opinion, not a fact....but let's run with it: Completely different cultures. As an example (and one I introduced, so the continuity is there) ask the average Brit how many miles he averages a year behind the wheel of a car. Now compare that answer to yours. We could get further into this, but I just woke up and it's 4:30 AM.
What it really looks like is "Do as I say, not as I did

Mike
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Using your analogy:

Ask a person who lives in NYC how many miles he drives annually. Now, ask a person who live is Prescott Arizona the same thing.

Can I get a better example because so far I don't see a big difference.
 
#30
For 600 years of English common law and throughout most of U.S. legal history, the age of 21 was regarded as the age of full adult status. Until 1971 the legal minimum voting age was 21 and many states maintained age 21 as their legal drinking age. It was not until the Vietnam War with the unpopular, forcible draft of disenfranchised 18-year-olds, that the age to vote in the U.S. was shifted downward to 18 by the 26th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

During that period 25 states also moved to reduce the age to purchase and consume alcoholic beverages. The result was a dramatic increase in highway crashes, injuries and deaths caused by intoxicated drivers in the 16 to 20 age group. These increases, and the disparities in alcohol-related injuries between states that maintained a 21 drinking age and those with lower ages, resulted in 1984 federal action initiated by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) under President Reagan, but (not by his wife, the former First Lady Nancy Reagan, as has been alleged within this thread). By 1988, all U.S. states had moved to raise their legal drinking age to 21. NHTSA estimates that this policy prevents more than 1,000 deaths annually from highway crashes involving intoxicated young drivers.

I cannot take credit for all of that prose... I cut-and-pasted it from 'Tobacco21.org'... but here's the deal as I see it, and all you boys who wanna be men can slam me all you wish. I raised twin daughters (both now in gradutate school), and they've managed to reach the ripe old drinking age of 23... and that just happened on Feb 1st, so anything you gotta say... I, and most likely a lot of the other 'geezer' TBer's, have heard your stuff before. What the hell, we probably said it first! So, am I starting to sound like your fathers now?

The key to this entire question is our own somewhat unique American culture. While a few of our European friends tend to 'laugh' at our values, and some poke fun at our moral compass, most of them have never been here, thus not fully understanding what American culture truly is... and, ironically enough, it's plastered out front in plain sight for all the world to see, but the obvious can sometimes be a tad obscure, even for us.

We Americans have an irresistible affinity for the automobile... plain and simple. Cars continue to be the primary commodity that supports our economic engine. We all gotta drive! What the hell... getting one's driver's license, for Americans is a 'right of passage'; that symbol of finally getting there; the umbilicle cord has truly been severed. At last... INDEPENDENCE!!!

Our European cousins do not have the same passion of car ownership as we do. Sure... many of them may dream of owning that BMW, Audi, 'Benz, whatever, and many manage to realize their dream, but most do not share the expectation... the 'right' of ownership... on the same scale as we Americans. Most Europeans have mass transit to get themselves around. I've been to both Europe and Asia on several occasions, and both continents... unlike our beloved USA... have mass transit down to an art-form. We Americans should be so fortunate, but you TBers from 'Motorcity' (Detroit) might put up some resistance... at least for now... to any active development of a comprehensive mass transit system for our entire country. That would result in a significant reduction of automobile manufacturing, and that would mean a whole different world for Motorcity... as well as other points beyond!

So, this is where the problem lies... driving a stupid car. It just seems so simple to most of us... at least on the surface. What the hell? There ain't nothing to driving a car... just ask Teddy Kennedy... :hiding: ...right? Nancy Reagan, while noble in her cause against drug abuse, had nothing to do with changing back the minimum age for alcohol consumption. The bloody statistics drove the change. I remember, 'cuz unlike most of you boys who want to be men, I was there. You guys were just a twinkle in your daddy's eye. There was a swell of concern among the populous regarding the carnage on our roadways beginning in the early '80s. Too many of our late teenagers, mostly boys, were getting themselves plowed, hopping behind the wheel of an automobile, and splattering their teeth, hair and eyeballs all over the concrete of our freeways. Something had to be done about this, so the culprit was determined to be the laws that lowered the drinking age back in the early '70s.

Statistics hold true that most driving accidents happen among both young and elderly drivers. For the geezers it's rather obvious... diminished reflexes, eyesight, hearing, etc... As for the whippersnappers, well hell, we were all young once, and we were invincible! Nothing is going to happen to us, and besides, we've got it all figured out, and our parents are just so stupid... you know? Throw in a few beers into the mix, and that young driver is ready to hunt bear! The irony here is... even when a young driver is stone-cold sober, he/she has only just begun to drive, and we all know how simple driving a car is... right???

I can almost see lowering the drinking age in places like New York City, Chicago and, possibly, San Francisco... where these cities have effecient mass transit. These cities are, IMO, very much like the major cities in Europe and Asia... one can easily get around without the need of an automobile. So... drink up, and have another round on me. However, the rest of America depends on the automobile to get around, thus too much exposure to possible death and destruction. No matter what you boys who wanna be men might say to the contrary, there is too much risk to bring back down the minimum drinking age... the statistics are there for your review, and numbers simply do not lie...

...so bring on the stones, arrows and spears. I've heard it already, and I dare say that my Elizabeth and Rebecca are pretty sharp young women, and they tried, my young brothers... believe me, they really took me to the mat, but I prevailed in the end, and they remain vibrant, healthy, and willing to sas their old man at a moments notice, but I'm pretty sure they still love me... ;)
 
#31
dannyboy15 said:
I'll still be opposed to this when i'm 40.
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Sure you will.

I worked in the hospitality trade for five years, in all sorts of bars, hotels and pubs, in the UK where the legal age is 18.

Yep, I've had punches swung at me by drunk geriatrics and knives pulled on me by drunk people in their forties, but by far the most difficult group of people to deal with are those in their teens.

They're more likely to drink to excess and to drink to deliberately get drunk. Then they're more likely to start fights, to cause damage to the property, to pass out in the bar or to be sick everywhere. And to do it all again the next night. And it's not just the males.

It's much more relaxing working in an over-21s bar.
 
#32
dannyboy15 said:
Using your analogy:

Ask a person who lives in NYC how many miles he drives annually. Now, ask a person who live is Prescott Arizona the same thing.

Can I get a better example because so far I don't see a big difference.
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Fair enough...and I'll quote two people for your answer:
Keeaumoku said:
I can almost see lowering the drinking age in places like New York City, Chicago and, possibly, San Francisco... where these cities have effecient mass transit. These cities are, IMO, very much like the major cities in Europe and Asia... one can easily get around without the need of an automobile.
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and....
dlloyd said:
Yep, I've had punches swung at me by drunk geriatrics and knives pulled on me by drunk people in their forties, but by far the most difficult group of people to deal with are those in their teens.

They're more likely to drink to excess and to drink to deliberately get drunk. Then they're more likely to start fights, to cause damage to the property, to pass out in the bar or to be sick everywhere. And to do it all again the next night.
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I'd also caution you as to predict what you will find yourself thinking 10 years from now, much less 20. You have a lot of things to experience and a lot of time to experience them before you will begin to solidify your feelings on a number of subjects.

Mike
 
#33
dlloyd said:
Sure you will.

I worked in the hospitality trade for five years, in all sorts of bars, hotels and pubs, in the UK where the legal age is 18.

Yep, I've had punches swung at me by drunk geriatrics and knives pulled on me by drunk people in their forties, but by far the most difficult group of people to deal with are those in their teens.

They're more likely to drink to excess and to drink to deliberately get drunk. Then they're more likely to start fights, to cause damage to the property, to pass out in the bar or to be sick everywhere. And to do it all again the next night. And it's not just the males.

It's much more relaxing working in an over-21s bar.
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Some of those blokes have built quite a reputation at the soccer games, too... but you are spot on with your stated experience, man... I'll toast you with a shot of 15 year-old Balmore... as soon as I get up off of me arse and pour it... :D
 
#35
dannyboy15 said:
Like many of you have said and like the studies have shown I think many (not all) people my age are immature. Though I think they approached solving the issue the wrong way.
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Perhaps, but I think they erred on the side of caution for safety. It's easier to change the law than the culture. To correct Keeaumoku's post: Louisiana didn't change their drinking age until 1996 or 1997 (I was drunk both of those years, so I don't remember). The correct year for a nationwide legal limit of 21 was 1998, when Wyoming passed their law.

Mike
 
#38
mike_v_s said:
Perhaps, but I think they erred on the side of caution for safety. It's easier to change the law than the culture. To correct Keeaumoku's post: Louisiana didn't change their drinking age until 1996 or 1997 (I was drunk both of those years, so I don't remember). The correct year for a nationwide legal limit of 21 was 1998, when Wyoming passed their law.

Mike
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"By 1988, all U.S. states had moved to raise their legal drinking age to 21..."

Again, I quoted a source... I believe this means that, back in '88, all states began taking action to reestablish the age limit to 21... and most states did, indeed follow suite. After all, the federal government was holding the denial of federal highway dollars as a 'bribe', if you will, for not going along with the plan. However, seeing as how I'm originally from your neighboring state of Texas, I seem to recall Louisiana holding out for quite sometime before eventually giving in... So, did those federal highway dollars have any influence on your politicians' ultimate decision? ;)
 
#39
Keeaumoku said:
"By 1988, all U.S. states had moved to raise their legal drinking age to 21..."

Again, I quoted a source... I believe this means that, back in '88, all states began taking action to reestablish the age limit to 21... and most states did, indeed follow suite. After all, the federal government was holding the denial of federal highway dollars as a 'bribe', if you will, for not going along with the plan. However, seeing as how I'm originally from your neighboring state of Texas, I seem to recall Louisiana holding out for quite sometime before eventually giving in... So, did those federal highway dollars have any influence on your politicians' ultimate decision? ;)
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I'm from Texas, as well. I made countless trips across the border after my 18th birthday. I'm pretty sure than the highway $ had a lot to do with it....but they're still not anyhting to brag about (the highways or the politicians).

Mike
 

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