Poll: When is vintage no longer vintage?

[Snert]

Because they dont want a sx bass. They want a fender jazz bass.

Well, duh!
Heaven forfend that after having owned both, I (a) don't see any value in the F, and (b) I offer my opinion on a question asked on a forum.

 

[Gluvhand]

Well, duh!
Heaven forfend that after having owned both, I (a) don't see any value in the F, and (b) I offer my opinion on a question asked on a forum.

You didn't answer the question. You offered an alternative and an opinion you knew would get the responses it deserved.

 

[Snert]

You didn't answer the question.

I think I did as I answered the poll too.

 

[Gluvhand]

I think I did as I answered the poll too.

My bad. You did. Along with the unasked for alternative and an unrealistic number as to the bass in questions worth. The neck alone is worth more than your "estimate".

 

[dave hope]

here comes the grumpy old man rap. But once trad . . .
Having been a player before there was such a thing as a "vintage" instrument (maybe with acoustics, not my interest).
A previously owned instrument like a Jazz or Precision were called "used" instruments.
A new Fender J or P bass was around $335.00. Used $150/175.

Personally, my thinking is:
1) 70% of young bass players seem to think there is a previously made "holy grail" bass out there.
2) also, the prices asked for these "holy grails" are off the charts
3) currently Fender still has all the specs for these "holy grails" under their copyright protection
4) so why not build what they already have in the past. Plus, of equal quality for $1,5000???
5) they have already made these basses before for pennies, and with very crude tech.
A better bass should be a breeze. And if Fender says they make a better one now.
Then explained why there is a vintage market with such non-sensical to moronic prices?

 

[BassinCT]

I would call the bass in the OP refurbished/modified, not restored to original. I don't give much weight to the word "vintage", as it doesn't give me any real information. If I were to buy it to play it, I would want its year of manufacture, condition, modifications or repairs.

 

[dkelley]

Well, it's a jazz bass I might actually really enjoy with those pickups. Vintage? yea, it's vintage, with upgrades.

On vintage (good) violins, bridge is replaced, tailpiece might be replaced, tuners are sometimes replaced, fingerboard might be replaced, soundpost might be replaced, wood inside might be patched in a few places, end pin might be replaced and the join from endpin to tailpiece is almost definitely replaced more than once.... But on a vintage violin, which is acoustic, the sound comes from everything remaining, mostly, not from the parts that I just listed. So all good.

On a bass... what IS "vintage"? Vintage is the age of neck and body, and the vibe of the original stuff. However it's the pickups also as long as they were goood, and for some people (and if age didn't degrade them) the tone cap(s).

So yea you're missing some of that in this bass. It's clear cut - it's vintage with upgraded electronics. Nothing wrong with it. Not worth a gazillion bucks though.

 

[Snert]

The neck alone is worth more than your "estimate".

What it's worth and what it would sell for are two different things. I said what I would pay for it.

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

It's old. With some newer parts. Fine if that's what makes you happy. It is likely not an investment piece, if that's what you're seeking.

The Bar Band Bassman

 

[wysiwyg248]

I voted no because IMHO, an instrument must have its original components to be called vintage.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

You may have heard some version of the story…

"A man walks into a pawn shop and sees an axe with the sign 'George Washington's axe that chopped down the cherry tree.'
The man asks the shop owner, 'Is this really George Washington's axe?'
The shop owner replies, 'Yes. And it's been well maintained. The handle has been replaced three times and the axe-head has been replaced twice.' " (Ba-dum-dum)

I recently found a great looking 1975 Fender Jazz Bass on Reverb. Very Marcus Miller in its color and style. The price was high(ish) but considering the recently ridiculous increase in vintage Fender prices, it is what it is. I messaged the shop about the weight and condition and received a response, "The bass weighs 4.27kg and everything looks to be original."

Not a bad weight for a 70s jazz. So I found the original listing on their website. As I went through the photos I noticed the pickups were split-coil jazz pickups. Pretty sure those weren't being made by Fender in '75. Then I scrolled & read the description:

"This is a killing bass!

Replacement pickups (Lindy Fralin Split Coils).

Swapped out scratchplate, bridge and the potentiometers.

The body has also been refinished."​

And while the upgrades all look to be well done (it probably really is a killing bass with those Fralins), the only thing left from 1975 is the body and neck, and maybe the tuners?

What's your take? Is this vintage? Or is it basically a glorified parts bass?

(It's still a sweet looking bass. Probably sounds amazing.)
View attachment 5108897

my vintage 1962 jazz bass has fralins, a replacement pickguard, non original pots and wiring, and non original bridge saddles. It's a vintage 1962 jazz bass.

 

[Matt O]

I voted yep. That's a vintage Fender Jazz. There are grades to vintage guitars, though, of course.

It should be listed at BEST only in "fair" condition due to the changed parts. Also, it's a player grade not a collectible. Which sounds like what you are after, so that's good. I'd put value at about 40% of what an excellent condition all original example would bring.

One thing that I find concerning is that the seller claimed it's all original and you had to dig down to find out it's not. That might steer me away.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

it's a player. my kind of vintage.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

You may have heard some version of the story…

"A man walks into a pawn shop and sees an axe with the sign 'George Washington's axe that chopped down the cherry tree.'
The man asks the shop owner, 'Is this really George Washington's axe?'
The shop owner replies, 'Yes. And it's been well maintained. The handle has been replaced three times and the axe-head has been replaced twice.' " (Ba-dum-dum)

I recently found a great looking 1975 Fender Jazz Bass on Reverb. Very Marcus Miller in its color and style. The price was high(ish) but considering the recently ridiculous increase in vintage Fender prices, it is what it is. I messaged the shop about the weight and condition and received a response, "The bass weighs 4.27kg and everything looks to be original."

Not a bad weight for a 70s jazz. So I found the original listing on their website. As I went through the photos I noticed the pickups were split-coil jazz pickups. Pretty sure those weren't being made by Fender in '75. Then I scrolled & read the description:

"This is a killing bass!

Replacement pickups (Lindy Fralin Split Coils).

Swapped out scratchplate, bridge and the potentiometers.

The body has also been refinished."​

And while the upgrades all look to be well done (it probably really is a killing bass with those Fralins), the only thing left from 1975 is the body and neck, and maybe the tuners?

What's your take? Is this vintage? Or is it basically a glorified parts bass?

(It's still a sweet looking bass. Probably sounds amazing.)
View attachment 5108897

It's a vintage body & neck combined with non vintage parts. If you are a collector, it's worthless unless you need a 1975 body & neck to go with 1975 hardware & electronics. If you are a looking at it for a player, it's worth what you are willing to give for a Jazz bass to play, but you probably can't buy it for that due to the value of the vintage parts.

An old bass has musical instrument value ($X) and antique / collectible value ($Y).
X+Y=Total value. There's significant detail in X; make, model, condition, availability, etc. Some of the same details are also in Y; make, model, condition, etc. but the characteristic that means the most to collectors is originality.

So, is it a vintage bass? No, but it is part of a vintage bass & the vintage part jacks up the price for it to be a player bass, but doesn't come close to making it as valuable as an all original '75 Jazz.

It's a tweener bass; between a player & a collector….

 

[Scotty4string]

Vintage is a very misused word. It only applies to wine. Google the definition.

 

[Pdaddy1978]

Back when some of us acquired our vintage basses, we had no idea that the changes and modifications we made...in the name of making them comfortable to our needs, was in fact..defacing and vandalizing precious art works.
Were sorry...

 

[Major Seven]

What I find funny is that qualities that would normally devalue a guitar (wear and damage) have become selling points for vintage instruments. I watched a vintage dealer rave about how cool cigarette smoke discoloration was on an old Fender he was selling: "This will never happen again!" (due to smoking bans).

Like Ratrods. Rusty old cars are now cool (and expensive) .

 

[Major Seven]

Vintage is what you think is vintage.
The consensus seems to be vintage requires all parts to be original as assembled at the factory.
Except Strings. So, why are string excluded from this opinion?
Let's think about a "vintage" automobile. As they are items expected to wear out over time, tires, filters, brakes, and light bulbs are like strings, They don't count; however, almost all vintage cars have other components that are not from the factory. The will have new paint jobs, engines and transmissions will have been replaced, the upholstery has probably been replaced. Some will have components replaced with original factory parts and some will be replaced with after market parts.
So, why are these altered cars vintage but a refinished bass is not?
So, vintage is what you think is vintage, not what I think is vintage.
As to value, like anything else the value is whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

 

[Topkat13]

After the owner dies.

 

[Major Seven]

Vintage is what you think is vintage.
The consensus seems to be vintage requires all parts to be original as assembled at the factory.
Except Strings. So, why are string excluded from this opinion?
Let's think about a "vintage" automobile. As they are items expected to wear out over time, tires, filters, brakes, and light bulbs are like strings, They don't count; however, almost all vintage cars have other components that are not from the factory. The will have new paint jobs, engines and transmissions will have been replaced, the upholstery has probably been replaced. Some will have components replaced with original factory parts and some will be replaced with after market parts.
So, why are these altered cars vintage but a refinished bass is not?
So, vintage is what you think is vintage, not what I think is vintage.
As to value, like anything else the value is whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

I recently retired from a vintage auto restoration shop.
What people called "original" always bothered me. Especially with cars that were intended to be budget
sports cars to begin with. Triumphs, MG, and healeys came with cheap plastic convertible tops, usually
vynil seats and nitro cellulose paints that crackled in the first 10 years.
They DID NOT all have leather interiors, nice canvas tops and mirror finish paint jobs from the factory.

Worse yet, there are a lot of reproduction parts from china now. Needless to say fixing new chinese repro
parts to make them work took longer than rebuilding the old ones on the cars. It even got to the point
where there were repro alternators inserted in "original" housings to look like old generators.

Restorations are very expensive labor wize and it got to the point where only those with $100k plus to
have the car of their high school days could afford to. No room for plain enthusiasts anymore. Over the
past 20 years or so desireable old cars have appreciated so fast they have attracted people viewing them
as investments much like art, pushing out the regular car guys. No more originals, only show queens.

My attitude always was, it is only original if it was never touched, which is nearly impossible.
I used to get a chuckle from the show judges. Most of them weren't alive when the cars were made and
don't realize they were not looking at original parts. In some cases not even period correct parts.

"So, vintage is what you think is vintage, not what I think is vintage.
As to value, like anything else the value is whatever someone is willing to pay for it. "
Gravedigger Dav

Me, I just want a driver. And a player.