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Poll: When is vintage no longer vintage?
- Thread starter tb-player
- Start date
Good ol' ship of theseus/grandfathers axe situation.
Since the bones of it are original I'd say it's technically vintage, but like others have said it isn't or shouldn't be considered a collectible. All the better, these are tools to be played and I'm all for a players bass. To me, a refinned vintage basses that have non-original pickups isn't something I'm interested in for the prices that they've been commanding lately. Fralins are good, but when you can get a AVRI and slap fralins in it for what I'm assuming is a fraction of the price while also not having to worry about QC of the CBS era then what is the point of going with the older bass? Maybe old wood is worth the price difference to you, but to me unless it had a feature I wanted like a 3 bolt neck and bullet truss I'd be out. The important bits to have original (to me) would be neck, body, pickups and if I could be choosy the pots.
Since the bones of it are original I'd say it's technically vintage, but like others have said it isn't or shouldn't be considered a collectible. All the better, these are tools to be played and I'm all for a players bass. To me, a refinned vintage basses that have non-original pickups isn't something I'm interested in for the prices that they've been commanding lately. Fralins are good, but when you can get a AVRI and slap fralins in it for what I'm assuming is a fraction of the price while also not having to worry about QC of the CBS era then what is the point of going with the older bass? Maybe old wood is worth the price difference to you, but to me unless it had a feature I wanted like a 3 bolt neck and bullet truss I'd be out. The important bits to have original (to me) would be neck, body, pickups and if I could be choosy the pots.
That's all it takes in my opinion, if the wood is old. Like that is closer to a seventies bass than a Warmoth neck and body with all 70s hardware and electronics
I agree it's player grade vintage. The old wood is still there. People say "not collectible" but it really is, just not AS collectible…it's player-grade collectible.
If neck or body were replaced it's not a vintage instrument, it's just got some vintage parts. For example sometimes you see an ad like "'75 jazz for sale" and it turns out they just think they used a beat up 70s body off eBay when they built a random parts bass
"vintage" really just means it's of a particular era that is desirable. We often use that term and substitute the 25 year rule for calling something "antique". Not even sure if that definition is accurate. So, to me, is it still "vintage" would mean that it still has the characteristics to an individual that make it "vintage". For some, replacing a pickguard screw would ruin it and for others they're fine with a new neck. To me, it has to be original body, neck, pickups and hardware. Pots wear out and are going to be replaced, so I'm not a stickler on those. A refin had better be done well and would need to be disclosed. I like relics, but don't relic a vintage instrument.
Yep! If I'm being brutally honest with myself, I'm looking at the vintagey finish and a maple neck with blocks and the TV logo. When we saw Marcus Miller, his vintage 70's jazz bass had nothing but modifications on it. And it was the best sounding bass he played all night. That being said, I'd rather buy an all original and do the mods myself. If I ever wanted to sell it, I could just reverse the mods and sell the bass as original and the mod parts separately.
But yeah, I'm still a little obsessed after that concert.
Not to derail this thread too much. Lol. But it seemed like everyone smoked back then. We went to an outdoor show a few years ago. Right before covid. Almost everyone was drinking but very very few were smoking cigarettes. It seems to be a thing of the past. I bet more people in the US smoke herb than tobacco these days. Maybe it's regional. I just rarely see people smoking anymore when I'm out.
Vapes and gummies. That's what makes the world go 'round in the 21st century.
The axe isn't Washingtons anymore, because he didn't use the fully replaced axe. The boat story is a bit different, where someone replaces all parts of his boat individually with maintenance and at the end wonders if it's still the same boat, if I remember that correctly. It's still the same boat in the sense that it is designed and used in a very similar way, but physically, all the atoms have been changed.
Washingtons axe was never purposed in the same way, meaning by Washington himself, anymore. So not only is it not physically the same axe anymore, but it's also not Washingtons axe anymore, because he never used it.
The bass is still vintage, because it is period correct and includes parts from the period. So it's atleast partially vintage, and I think that's the correct way to go about this. You shouldn't ask whether the whole bass is vintage or not, you should ask what parts are vintage about it. That's what mostly matters when it comes to pricing, but functionally it's not a vintage bass anymore, because the parts that contribute atleast 99% of the sound, have all been replaced it seems.
It's not going to sound like a vintage Fender, but that can be a good thing. Those pickups are better made, those pots are better made, the bridge might be more cheaply made, but I'm not certain about that.
The only thing that appears to be vintage that has any affect on the tone, seems to be the nut.
But I'm sure that the whole thing smells very vintage either way
Washingtons axe was never purposed in the same way, meaning by Washington himself, anymore. So not only is it not physically the same axe anymore, but it's also not Washingtons axe anymore, because he never used it.
The bass is still vintage, because it is period correct and includes parts from the period. So it's atleast partially vintage, and I think that's the correct way to go about this. You shouldn't ask whether the whole bass is vintage or not, you should ask what parts are vintage about it. That's what mostly matters when it comes to pricing, but functionally it's not a vintage bass anymore, because the parts that contribute atleast 99% of the sound, have all been replaced it seems.
It's not going to sound like a vintage Fender, but that can be a good thing. Those pickups are better made, those pots are better made, the bridge might be more cheaply made, but I'm not certain about that.
The only thing that appears to be vintage that has any affect on the tone, seems to be the nut.
But I'm sure that the whole thing smells very vintage either way
Vintage, yes...Original, no. Like a 55 Chevy with a crate motor, reto disc brakes, 6 speed transmission, Bluetooth audio etc... still a '55 Chevy but nothing original but body and frame.
It's gone from socially normal to socially taboo - if you want to smoke, you can't just do it wherever, you pretty much have to go away from others, which makes perfect sense.
Of course, right now Canada is burning gobs of trees and we're downwind. If they lite them intentionally it'd be a real issue.
Vintage is a landmine term depending on who you ask. The diehard Fender heads will tell you vintage is Pre-CBS 1964 and earlier (technically some early 65's). Everything else is just old or era/logo based i.e. late 60's, early 70's, 76 or later, etc.
To me, vintage means a factory original instrument of a certain age. Anything else is either a player or a frankenbass.
The pickups are also the soul of the bass IMO. Change the pickups and it becomes a different bass.
And 'vintage' is an almost meaningless term when it's applied to an instrument like a Fender where every component in it, by design, can be easily swapped out.
The pickups are also the soul of the bass IMO. Change the pickups and it becomes a different bass.
And 'vintage' is an almost meaningless term when it's applied to an instrument like a Fender where every component in it, by design, can be easily swapped out.
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The same seller appears to be offering a virtually identical MIJ Fender JB-75 Jazz Bass Reissue for less than half the asking price:
Fender JB-75 Jazz Bass Reissue MIJ
To me it's a matter of discerning vintage look and feel from vintage value.
I'd say it's vintage in terms of woods and therefore I'd expect it to feel and sound somewhat vintage. Like mentioned before, the wood parts actually change (and most would say improve) with age and are original. Therefore to me the core of the bass qualifies as vintage supplemented with some improvements.
But the mods do deflate the vintage value aspect. I haven't seen the ad, but if they don't clearly disclose the mods it seems a bit misleading for those looking for an investment grade instrument. Obviously it is not.
It could be a very good instrument and worth a good amount of money. But not vintage-esque top dollar IMO.
I'd say it's vintage in terms of woods and therefore I'd expect it to feel and sound somewhat vintage. Like mentioned before, the wood parts actually change (and most would say improve) with age and are original. Therefore to me the core of the bass qualifies as vintage supplemented with some improvements.
But the mods do deflate the vintage value aspect. I haven't seen the ad, but if they don't clearly disclose the mods it seems a bit misleading for those looking for an investment grade instrument. Obviously it is not.
It could be a very good instrument and worth a good amount of money. But not vintage-esque top dollar IMO.
Exactly. Changing the hardware doesn't change the fact that the neck and body are both from 1975 and original to each other. It's a vintage bass.
Should it be priced as an original vintage bass? Heck no!! A refin alone will drop the value by almost 50%. By the time you factor in all the replaced components the value comes down to what someone's willing to pay for it and what someone else is willing to let it go for.
It ain't a museum piece and it's debatable whether or not it's "collectible" but I think it's safe to say it's still vintage.
For some perspective, how many 100-200 year old double basses have their original fingerboards and end pins? Are they all "parts basses"? How many Stradivari violins have their original necks? 'Vintage' and 'original' are not necessarily synonymous.
