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Poll: When is vintage no longer vintage?
- Thread starter tb-player
- Start date
It has vintage components, but it is not an original artifact. That should be the end of it. There's no way you can honestly call it original—even if the original parts it does have are the least fudgeable parts from any given era: the wood.
I'm sure it's a killer, though.
Just sayin'.
I'm sure it's a killer, though.
Just sayin'.
Vintage original is the standard for collectors but it is not the best choice for players who want a certain performance standard. There are plenty of new basses that exceed the performance of some old basses.
I just find it odd that companies "relic" their new production to mimic an old bass and people buy into it.
You can't argue with an all original instrument if that is what you are after and you will often have to piece together your own classic bass but replacing the the replaced parts with original parts.
Finished are only done once at the factory and anything after is a refinish, even in a custom color.
I just find it odd that companies "relic" their new production to mimic an old bass and people buy into it.
You can't argue with an all original instrument if that is what you are after and you will often have to piece together your own classic bass but replacing the the replaced parts with original parts.
Finished are only done once at the factory and anything after is a refinish, even in a custom color.
The biggest problem with vintage is the over-emphasis on the word itself. Vintage just means old - but not necessarily good. This particular bass may well be a good one - Fralins are great pickups - but it's still a parts bass.
What is vintage to me may not be considered vintage to others. In my mind a "vintage" bass only pertains to pre-cbs fenders. Nothing else. But I know very few feel the same, and that's just fine.
But…
Already mentioned above, the word "vintage" really only refers to wine. I feel people who enjoy stuff like classic cars and instruments hijacked the word to use in place of "old." And I agree that the word "vintage" sounds much fancier than the word "old."
Yes, the bass in question for the OP is old. However, it's not the oldest nor is it original. It's like someone took a top shelf 2013 Syrah (kinda old but not REAL old in the wine world) and added a touch of a more modern world renowned Grenache to make its own blend then put it back in the bottle. While it's a fabulous tasting wine built off a relatively old base, ain't nobody drooling over it or clamoring to buy at a premium price. Some wine snobs may even scoff and turn their nose up at it even though it's perfectly delicious, maybe even more delicious than it was in its original state.
I hope that helps!
Edit to add that I couldn't answer the poll.
But…
Already mentioned above, the word "vintage" really only refers to wine. I feel people who enjoy stuff like classic cars and instruments hijacked the word to use in place of "old." And I agree that the word "vintage" sounds much fancier than the word "old."
Yes, the bass in question for the OP is old. However, it's not the oldest nor is it original. It's like someone took a top shelf 2013 Syrah (kinda old but not REAL old in the wine world) and added a touch of a more modern world renowned Grenache to make its own blend then put it back in the bottle. While it's a fabulous tasting wine built off a relatively old base, ain't nobody drooling over it or clamoring to buy at a premium price. Some wine snobs may even scoff and turn their nose up at it even though it's perfectly delicious, maybe even more delicious than it was in its original state.
I hope that helps!
Edit to add that I couldn't answer the poll.
If it were a car… a '65 mustang…. With brand new engine, paint, drivetrain, doors, hood, seats, upholstery, radio, speakers… would it be "vintage"? It certainly would be an improvement from "all original" and a very cool car… but it's not the same car. The markets and intensions of buyers would certainly be different between an all original model vs a "modified" model. I don't think one would be able to call the heavily upgraded mustang "vintage"… which one is "better" though would be a subjective and individual preference.
I'm gonna echo the posters that said this is "player grade vintage." The bones are still there- the old wood- but there have been modifications made for the sake of tone/playability that damage its collector value while (maybe) adding to its non-monetary worth as a played instrument. Is it worth what an all-original minty 75 Jazz would fetch? Absolutely not. But I think it still falls well within the definition of "vintage" as most people conceive it.
Vintage is such a buzzword now that it holds little water. I've seen people who think it means only pre-CBS, people who slap it on anything older than 20 years, people who think it only applies to Fenders from the Fullerton factory... this is an old bass with some miles and some player upgrades. Everything else is marketing.
Vintage is such a buzzword now that it holds little water. I've seen people who think it means only pre-CBS, people who slap it on anything older than 20 years, people who think it only applies to Fenders from the Fullerton factory... this is an old bass with some miles and some player upgrades. Everything else is marketing.
It's a glorified parts bass utilising both vintage and new parts.
What I would be focusing on is the use value of such an item.
Will you get the use out of it to justify or even surpass the cost of purchase?
If yes; buy it.
If not, then consider the Reproduction Value.
Could you reproduce one just like it, cheaper than this one at its current sale price?
If yes, don't buy it.
If not, reconsider Use Value before buying it.
What I would be focusing on is the use value of such an item.
Will you get the use out of it to justify or even surpass the cost of purchase?
If yes; buy it.
If not, then consider the Reproduction Value.
Could you reproduce one just like it, cheaper than this one at its current sale price?
If yes, don't buy it.
If not, reconsider Use Value before buying it.
I like to think of these kinds of debates as being less about playability or sound and more about status.
I could buy some rock star's rare, out-of-production or one-off 1979 bass in an auction, and that will confer great status because it's a positional good. While I own it, nobody else can own it. It won't make me sound like that rock star, of course, but I gain status by association with it. It is an example of conspicuous consumption.
Out-of-production older instruments naturally dwindle in number over time, as many age into becoming unplayable, or are snapped up for collections and go off the market. Nobody knows exactly how many pre-CBS Jazz Basses were actually made, but the desirability of them means they command five-figure prices.
Will a modern Jazz Bass sound just as good, if not better? Yes. There are millions of J-style basses out there ranging from cheap to boutique and commanding a range of prices, but... anything still in production is a commodity good; anyone can buy one, so they're not worth as much as something only a few people can buy.
I could buy some rock star's rare, out-of-production or one-off 1979 bass in an auction, and that will confer great status because it's a positional good. While I own it, nobody else can own it. It won't make me sound like that rock star, of course, but I gain status by association with it. It is an example of conspicuous consumption.
Out-of-production older instruments naturally dwindle in number over time, as many age into becoming unplayable, or are snapped up for collections and go off the market. Nobody knows exactly how many pre-CBS Jazz Basses were actually made, but the desirability of them means they command five-figure prices.
Will a modern Jazz Bass sound just as good, if not better? Yes. There are millions of J-style basses out there ranging from cheap to boutique and commanding a range of prices, but... anything still in production is a commodity good; anyone can buy one, so they're not worth as much as something only a few people can buy.
I think that word is really important to some people and I'm cool with that. I feel like an old body and neck with new parts is non original but still vintage. Just my 2 cents.
Definitely NOT a Vintage Bass because not original parts and the body was re-finished. Nonetheless it might be a fine bass and is at least worth getting a feel for how the neck is on it. For me, almost all 1970's Jazz that I've tried out had too thick a neck for my comfort. My 1965 Jazz, that I bought in 1966 had a 60's Slim C-shape neck on a 7.25" radius. It was stolen in 1976 along with all my touring gear and it took me until 1985 to find another Jazz Bass with that same neck shape and profile.
I checked out a LOT of Jazz Basses over almost 10-years of searching. Was working part time at a music store because I'd gone back to college, and this guy brings in a 1982 Olympic White Jazz with all maple neck as a trade in towards an active Aria Pro II. When I finally tried it out 4-days later it felt like coming home. There's reason that the neck on that Jazz that Geddy found in that pawn shop had sanded down the back of that neck.
So check out how it feels , sounds and plays. And, don't pay "Vintage" pricing for it, because it's not vintage anymore.
not really - some of us are abject beginners, and miles away from a 'vintage tone' level of ability (whether in fingers, or elsewhere)
Or at least... i am
It's mostly almost 50 years old so yeah.
Those pickups are a very nice design but im not sure it would get that 70s vibe your buying into
Those pickups are a very nice design but im not sure it would get that 70s vibe your buying into
Original neck and body is a good start. ... A refinished body and refretted neck is another thing. ... I have an all original 72 Jazz bass with quality after market pickups and electronics for sale for $5000 and people complain about the pickups not being original. But, a CS relic'd version of the same bass would sell for close to that. ... "Vintage" can be a sliding scale of reality. ... Maybe Fender, manufacturing so many different varieties in so many different levels of 'road-worn rustic' is the surveyor of what the word really means? Here's a CS non-relic'd version, Fender Custom Shop 60's Jazz Bass, NOS 2012 3 Tone Sunburst | Reverb
Vintage is an overused emotional adjective used in this context to simply enhance the price that someone might pay. That's about it imo, for me it means nothing else. I ignore it. I have owned several instruments that would probably be described as such, although these days I'm down to just one.
Here's my logic --
There are two different ways we value instruments that often get confused in our heads. One is as a collectable, where the price is determined by its desirability over its rarity (an emotional decision), the other is the replacement cost - the cost to replace the instrument in question with something of comparable utility (a non-emotional decision). Many of us like to believe that instruments we have purchased using the replacement cost valuation will someday switch to the other and substantially increase in value. Sometimes this happens - usually when this does, we keep those instruments in our cases and don't take them to gigs any longer because the risk of damage or theft is more than what we are willing to tolerate. Mostly it doesn't, though, and today's collectables are tomorrow's trash. I've been a thrift store enthusiast my entire life; just a few visits will likely have you come to a similar conclusion.
But I think it's important to recognize that the market for collectables isn't determined by bass players (those who actually use these things we adore to make music), it's determined by people who have money to spend on such things as purely aesthetic objects (and sometimes these are bass players, too, after all this TalkBass where most players have lots more instruments than we actually need). So the use of the word "vintage" in my head is simply a way to try to confuse valuation systems and reframe perceptions, it doesn't mean anything to me with regard to the object being sold.
So the only relevant question, I'd ask when buying something like this would be - is it collectable (do I think it will increase in value; in this case, likely not) or do I want to play it ( and is there something better I could do with the $$$). There are many things that are old and could be described as "vintage", but have not increased in value as collectables. Like myself.
Vintage never figures into buying a bass for me.
Here's my logic --
There are two different ways we value instruments that often get confused in our heads. One is as a collectable, where the price is determined by its desirability over its rarity (an emotional decision), the other is the replacement cost - the cost to replace the instrument in question with something of comparable utility (a non-emotional decision). Many of us like to believe that instruments we have purchased using the replacement cost valuation will someday switch to the other and substantially increase in value. Sometimes this happens - usually when this does, we keep those instruments in our cases and don't take them to gigs any longer because the risk of damage or theft is more than what we are willing to tolerate. Mostly it doesn't, though, and today's collectables are tomorrow's trash. I've been a thrift store enthusiast my entire life; just a few visits will likely have you come to a similar conclusion.
But I think it's important to recognize that the market for collectables isn't determined by bass players (those who actually use these things we adore to make music), it's determined by people who have money to spend on such things as purely aesthetic objects (and sometimes these are bass players, too, after all this TalkBass where most players have lots more instruments than we actually need). So the use of the word "vintage" in my head is simply a way to try to confuse valuation systems and reframe perceptions, it doesn't mean anything to me with regard to the object being sold.
So the only relevant question, I'd ask when buying something like this would be - is it collectable (do I think it will increase in value; in this case, likely not) or do I want to play it ( and is there something better I could do with the $$$). There are many things that are old and could be described as "vintage", but have not increased in value as collectables. Like myself.
Vintage never figures into buying a bass for me.
It's like buying an old Chevelle with a modern LS engine swapped in. It's still a vintage instrument, it's just not original. It doesn't have to be both.
