Pondering Some New Ideas, Need Some Input

[agedhorse]

For those who are against the idea of class D amps, this particular thread and the questions asked in general, are not for you.

 

[PeaveyPlayer]

Well said….

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

One thing that my D800 lacks that some of my favorite other amplifiers have is an input labeled "Accordion".

Just sayin', Ya know?

 

[agedhorse]

One thing that my D800 lacks that some of my favorite other amplifiers have is an input labeled "Accordion".

Just sayin', Ya know?

At least it doesn't have a banjo input...

 

[/\/\3phist0]

At least it doesn't have a banjo input...

thank God your not considering Harmonica!

 

[Plastalmonus]

It's been a while since I made my repetitive post hinting that a 400+ single channel amp would be ace... looks like it is my time to shine!

DO IT!

Tube pre with Class D power of course. Basically just a 400+ I can carry in a shoulder bag!

 

[BioDriver]

I'd really like a hybrid version of the 400+ with modern updates. AKA a 3 or 4 tube preamp stage, graphic EQ, class D power, headphone out, and speakon connectors. All at a quarter of the 400+'s 46ish pounds (or 21ish kg). In other words, a cousin of the WD-800 based on the 400+ rather than the Walkabout.

 

[Verticos]

I'd love to see some sort of control that has could be the drive/saturation equivalent of the damping control on the WD. Something that emulates output transformers and a power section being pushed rather than preamp section drive. If a new Mesa amp had that in addition to the same damping control of the WD, it'd be my white whale of a class-d amp that still gives me what I lust for with all-tube, big iron amps. Something that gives me what I love about plugging my Noble into the power amp input of an SVT

Though I'm still not entirely sure what's going on with the WD's damping control, and maybe what I'm describing is already part of that feature. I've only tried a WD once for about an hour, so I can't say I really know the ins and outs.

 

[agedhorse]

I'd love to see some sort of control that has could be the drive/saturation equivalent of the damping control on the WD. Something that emulates output transformers and a power section being pushed rather than preamp section drive. If a new Mesa amp had that in addition to the same damping control of the WD, it'd be my white whale of a class-d amp that still gives me what I lust for with all-tube, big iron amps. Something that gives me what I love about plugging my Noble into the power amp input of an SVT

Though I'm still not entirely sure what's going on with the WD's damping control, and maybe what I'm describing is already part of that feature. I've only tried a WD once for about an hour, so I can't say I really know the ins and outs.

For bass guitar, I don't think you want output transformer saturation, it sounds pretty horrible (even though it's earned "internet mythology" status, real OT saturation is quite unflattering and in practice is avoided by all of the manufacturers I am familiar with (in spite of any marketing drivel that may be puked upon the perspective customer)

On a different side of this, OT's can provide certain colorations and non-linearities, distortions, etc... intentional and otherwise) that can be beneficial to some, more so in the guitar market than in the bass market. This is not the same as saturation, in spite of what some marketing folks are convinced of.

 

[GMSweet]

Hmmm....Mesa dream land, how fun. If I understand the assignment correctly, I would like to see the following in BOTH preamp only and STUD-800 flavors:

• TT Boogie channel
  
  
• If the Deep and Bright switches are the same or similar to the D-800+, I find them both fun, but overpowering. Perhaps a halfway mark like off/deep/deeper. The D-800+ manual doesn't specify the boost the way the TT-800 manual does, but the descriptive language is very similar so I may be making the faulty assumption that Andy didn't tweak those the way he tweaked the HPF.
  
  
• Add D-800+ High-Mid control but via tube. Stealing from Rupert Neve, add a Q switch for the control for narrow or broad or make it a proportional Q (Harrison/API) where the band narrows the more you boost or cut. I find the Q of the D-800+ filters just outside of what I usually reach for and use 2 bands to get where I'm going. I like broader curves and I rarely take the EQ gain knobs past 10:00-2:00. The Harrison 32C eq is my most used mixing EQ.
  
  
• Add Andy's take on the Rupert Neve Silk circuit, but tube not transformer (unless he wants too ). A one knob texture control switchable between low-mid or upper-mid harmonics. On my Ampeg SVP-Pro, the drive control is a very broad upper mid saturation via a 12AU7 and is about the only control I use aside from a bit more bass to make up for the loss with the drive control.
  
  
• No graphic EQ for me please.

The preamp only version would satisfy the IEM folks, those of us in the studio, and those of us who already own a D800, D800+, or WD-800. The powered version fits those who just want the single channel amp.

I haven't plugged into an actual 400+ in over 30 years, and I was a young player, and young in general. I was baffled by all the pull/shifts and the Fender tone stack. That was way back in the day at Daddy's Junky Music through a RR215 cabinet. I immediately knew I wasn't good enough to be playing through that rig.

 

[Verticos]

For bass guitar, I don't think you want output transformer saturation, it sounds pretty horrible (even though it's earned "internet mythology" status, real OT saturation is quite unflattering and in practice is avoided by all of the manufacturers I am familiar with (in spite of any marketing drivel that may be puked upon the perspective customer)

On a different side of this, OT's can provide certain colorations and non-linearities, distortions, etc... intentional and otherwise) that can be beneficial to some, more so in the guitar market than in the bass market. This is not the same as saturation, in spite of what some marketing folks are convinced of.

That makes sense. Is the same true for power tube drive/saturation as well, or just OT coloration?

Also, does the damping in the WD actually interact with the power amp itself, or is it its own self-contained part of the signal path that happens to be located in the power section? Put another way, could there be, for example, a pedalboard preamp that had the same damping functionality?

 

[agedhorse]

That makes sense. Is the same true for power tube drive/saturation as well, or just OT coloration?

Also, does the damping in the WD actually interact with the power amp itself, or is it its own self-contained part of the signal path that happens to be located in the power section? Put another way, could there be, for example, a pedalboard preamp that had the same damping functionality?

Power tube saturation is (or can be) quite different.

The damping affects the power amp signal only, it's inter-related with the load like a tube power amp is. It can't be applied to a preamp in the same way because the specific mechanisms don't exist.

 

[gtirard]

Hmmm....Mesa dream land, how fun. If I understand the assignment correctly, I would like to see the following in BOTH preamp only and STUD-800 flavors:

• TT Boogie channel
  
  
• If the Deep and Bright switches are the same or similar to the D-800+, I find them both fun, but overpowering. Perhaps a halfway mark like off/deep/deeper. The D-800+ manual doesn't specify the boost the way the TT-800 manual does, but the descriptive language is very similar so I may be making the faulty assumption that Andy didn't tweak those the way he tweaked the HPF.
  
  
• Add D-800+ High-Mid control but via tube. Stealing from Rupert Neve, add a Q switch for the control for narrow or broad or make it a proportional Q (Harrison/API) where the band narrows the more you boost or cut. I find the Q of the D-800+ filters just outside of what I usually reach for and use 2 bands to get where I'm going. I like broader curves and I rarely take the EQ gain knobs past 10:00-2:00. The Harrison 32C eq is my most used mixing EQ.
  
  
• Add Andy's take on the Rupert Neve Silk circuit, but tube not transformer (unless he wants too ). A one knob texture control switchable between low-mid or upper-mid harmonics. On my Ampeg SVP-Pro, the drive control is a very broad upper mid saturation via a 12AU7 and is about the only control I use aside from a bit more bass to make up for the loss with the drive control.
  
  
• No graphic EQ for me please.

The preamp only version would satisfy the IEM folks, those of us in the studio, and those of us who already own a D800, D800+, or WD-800. The powered version fits those who just want the single channel amp.

I haven't plugged into an actual 400+ in over 30 years, and I was a young player, and young in general. I was baffled by all the pull/shifts and the Fender tone stack. That was way back in the day at Daddy's Junky Music through a RR215 cabinet. I immediately knew I wasn't good enough to be playing through that rig.

+1 about deep switches often too pronounced to be usable

I haven't had the chance to play on the D800+, but with almost all amps that have this feature, it's nice at bedroom level, but useless above. A 3 way switch would be great.

+1 for preamp and a amp version, like Ampeg SGT di + Venture amps. Even better would be a preamp you can use alone or dock into a power amp.

 

[sunbeast]

+1 about deep switches often too pronounced to be usable

I haven't had the chance to play on the D800+, but with almost all amps that have this feature, it's nice at bedroom level, but useless above. A 3 way switch would be great.

+1 for preamp and a amp version, like Ampeg SGT di + Venture amps. Even better would be a preamp you can use alone or dock into a power amp.

At least on the TT800, I found the "Deep" to be really useable- mostly just seemed like it dropped the HPF down for a 5-string without adding a whole lot of bass boost (probably some, but nothing overpowering).

 

[agedhorse]

At least on the TT800, I found the "Deep" to be really useable- mostly just seemed like it dropped the HPF down for a 5-string without adding a whole lot of bass boost (probably some, but nothing overpowering).

This was heavily discussed with TB input when developing this feature.

 

[GMSweet]

This was heavily discussed with TB input when developing this feature.

No doubt! One man's too much is another's just right and yet another's not enough. I enjoy reading all the design posts due to your intentionality. Nothing is left to accident or "just because."

 

[agedhorse]

No doubt! One man's too much is another's just right and yet another's not enough. I enjoy reading all the design posts due to your intentionality. Nothing is left to accident or "just because."

Ain't that the truth?

 

[sunbeast]

This was heavily discussed with TB input when developing this feature.

On my TT I liked to engage Deep and turn the HPF up, which resulted in a different bass curve/feel than the opposite approach. Pretty cool

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

Mr. agedhorse. Before I retired, I worked in R&D at two different companies. We designed and manufactued very high-tech commercial robotic, and machine vision capable equipment. The marketing guys would do market research and present ideas to us and ask if we could design equipment that they thought the market would buy. We had to estimate what the R&D cost was, how long development would take, and what the actual market cost would be as well.

It seems to me that you are performing market research in addition to your other duties. I respect that.

My question for you is how much do you think this new product going to cost?

I bought a D800/115 to dip my toe into the Subway line. Now, I wish that I had bought the WD instead.

I hope that whatever new product you come up with, a current WD owner will get G.A.S. and sell their WD to me at a price that I can justify so they can fund purchasing the latest amp.

If that happens, I will quit browsing TB, and all the retailers websites, reverb, and eBay, and spend the rest of my days practicing instead of GASing for more amps.

(I promise).

 

[DJ Bebop]

I’ll play.

Kinda based on a WD and D+ crossover joint.

WD front end only switchable tube, no tube. HPF, Deep switch maybe Bright, Shelving Bass and Treble, only two bands of semi para mid EQ, Passive Mid, 3 step Damping, maybe that Overdrive Symmetry thing.