Pondering Some New Ideas, Need Some Input

[gtirard]

I'd love to see a modular system with preamp modules you can dock in a power amp module.
Each preamp could be used alone, and the power amp could be coupled with different preamps according to taste.

Mesa could develop preamp modules for the 400+ and different other legacy models. And if we start dreaming, why not imagine that other manufacturers could adopt the same standard and develop their own preamps… (SVT, BD751, you name it)

@agedhorse would it be feasible (in theory) but too expensive / not profitable because of the size of the market compared to costs of R&D + certification etc? Or would it be simple impossible to do, technically?

View attachment 5418653

Of course, on the back of the power amp module, we find the speakon connector, and on the back of each preamp module we find the insert loops, DI outs etc.

Combined:

 

[Wasnex]

I'd love to see a modular system with preamp modules you can dock in a power amp module.
Each preamp could be used alone, and the power amp could be coupled with different preamps according to taste.

Mesa could develop preamp modules for the 400+ and different other legacy models. And if we start dreaming, why not imagine that other manufacturers could adopt the same standard and develop their own preamps… (SVT, BD751, you name it)

@agedhorse would it be feasible (in theory) but too expensive / not profitable because of the size of the market compared to costs of R&D + certification etc? Or would it be simple impossible to do, technically?

View attachment 5418653

Of course, on the back of the power amp module, we find the speakon connector, and on the back of each preamp module we find the insert loops, DI outs etc.

While I personally think this concept is cool, the reality is I have seen several companies try it over the years and, AFAIK, none of them seem to have been all that successful.

MoMark is the example I can think of regarding bass amps.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

I'd love to see a modular system with preamp modules you can dock in a power amp module.
Each preamp could be used alone, and the power amp could be coupled with different preamps according to taste.

Mesa could develop preamp modules for the 400+ and different other legacy models. And if we start dreaming, why not imagine that other manufacturers could adopt the same standard and develop their own preamps… (SVT, BD751, you name it)

@agedhorse would it be feasible (in theory) but too expensive / not profitable because of the size of the market compared to costs of R&D + certification etc? Or would it be simple impossible to do, technically?

View attachment 5418653

Of course, on the back of the power amp module, we find the speakon connector, and on the back of each preamp module we find the insert loops, DI outs etc.

SYNERGY for guitar IINM?

 

[gtirard]

While I personally think this concept is cool, the reality is I have seen several companies try it over the years and, AFAIK, none of them seem to have been all that successful.

MoMark is the example I can think of regarding bass amps.

I didn't know, thanks. LOL, I found an old article about this system, very promising indeed
I can see why it doesn't exist (any longer)

 

[gtirard]

SYNERGY for guitar IINM?

Yes, that's more what I had in mind, more straighforward than Momark, with preamp modules based on well known and beloved amps. Except that Synergy preamps can't be used stand alone, can they? Anyway, I can see that even this approach is too complex for the benefits… Thanks.

 

[abarson]

I didn't know, thanks. LOL, I found an old article about this system, very promising indeed
I can see why it doesn't exist (any longer)

In my mind such flexibility might only be useful in a studio environment. This limits the market for such a "solution".
For live, you aren't going to change modules between songs. You want to find a good sound quickly and ride it through the night. Much more than that will lead you to pedals being a better solution.

 

[Jim C]

Seymour Duncan had changeable preamp modules back in the 80's.
It still has not caught on.
All About the Seymour Duncan Convertible 100-Watt Guitar Amp - Guitar Pickups, Bass Pickups, Pedals

 

[frankie5string]

As a follow-up question, would a Carbine inspired amp along these lines be more or less interesting?

Yes, please.... with a simple-to-control compressor similar to the one in the M9. And a way to maintain depth at low volumes?
I loved the Carbine M9 dearly. The "clean" sound it had with that kind-of burbley distortion was really lovely and fat.

 

[J Wilson]

Not for this product, but another 'what if? to go in the file cabinet.

I would love a two channel amp (mono power) that you could set the two channels where you want them and then have channel switching AND a way to blend them.

See, I can throw these ideas out there as I have NO IDEA how hard that might be.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Not for this product, but another 'what if? to go in the file cabinet.

I would love a two channel amp (mono power) that you could set the two channels where you want them and then have channel switching AND a way to blend them.

See, I can throw these ideas out there as I have NO IDEA how hard that might be.

Titan V12

 

[spiritbass]

Mr. agedhorse. Before I retired, I worked in R&D at two different companies. We designed and manufactued very high-tech commercial robotic, and machine vision capable equipment. The marketing guys would do market research and present ideas to us and ask if we could design equipment that they thought the market would buy. We had to estimate what the R&D cost was, how long development would take, and what the actual market cost would be as well.

It seems to me that you are performing market research in addition to your other duties. I respect that.

My question for you is how much do you think this new product going to cost?

I bought a D800/115 to dip my toe into the Subway line. Now, I wish that I had bought the WD instead.

I hope that whatever new product you come up with, a current WD owner will get G.A.S. and sell their WD to me at a price that I can justify so they can fund purchasing the latest amp.

If that happens, I will quit browsing TB, and all the retailers websites, reverb, and eBay, and spend the rest of my days practicing instead of GASing for more amps.

(I promise).

You can flip that D800 anytime & get into WD land. Why wait? Life is short, brother...

 

[dannylectro]

I currently own and use about 80% of the time a Mesa WD800, which I love.
I played a 400+ as a backline rig a few times and thought they were amazing; but! I don’t like/never use graphic EQs on any bass amp. In fact, they have deterred me from buying amps with that feature several times…

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

You can flip that D800 anytime & get into WD land. Why wait? Life is short, brother...

I am planning to upgrade my housing situation from a hovel to a shack (without having to have a mortgage) so I have promised myself to exhibit fiscal self control until after I have bought a different house. I am not a wheeler/dealer when it comes to selling gear, (probably why I have nearly thirty bass or guitar amplifiers). Once I am ensconced in what I call "my final resting place", (since I am retired), I will be able to spend money on something I really don't need.

 

[J-phatt]

I'd love to see a modular system with preamp modules you can dock in a power amp module.
Each preamp could be used alone, and the power amp could be coupled with different preamps according to taste.

Mesa could develop preamp modules for the 400+ and different other legacy models. And if we start dreaming, why not imagine that other manufacturers could adopt the same standard and develop their own preamps… (SVT, BD751, you name it)

@agedhorse would it be feasible (in theory) but too expensive / not profitable because of the size of the market compared to costs of R&D + certification etc? Or would it be simple impossible to do, technically?

View attachment 5418653

Of course, on the back of the power amp module, we find the speakon connector, and on the back of each preamp module we find the insert loops, DI outs etc.

There is at least one guitar amp that has this feature.

 

[J Wilson]

Titan V12

. . . . without power tubes, only a preamp tube . . .

 

[agedhorse]

I'd love to see a modular system with preamp modules you can dock in a power amp module.
Each preamp could be used alone, and the power amp could be coupled with different preamps according to taste.

Mesa could develop preamp modules for the 400+ and different other legacy models. And if we start dreaming, why not imagine that other manufacturers could adopt the same standard and develop their own preamps… (SVT, BD751, you name it)

@agedhorse would it be feasible (in theory) but too expensive / not profitable because of the size of the market compared to costs of R&D + certification etc? Or would it be simple impossible to do, technically?

View attachment 5418653

Of course, on the back of the power amp module, we find the speakon connector, and on the back of each preamp module we find the insert loops, DI outs etc.

The sheet metal and mechanicals get very expensive in a hurry, it ends up with cost creep that would make an already expensive product even more expensive.

Not for this product, but another 'what if? to go in the file cabinet.

I would love a two channel amp (mono power) that you could set the two channels where you want them and then have channel switching AND a way to blend them.

See, I can throw these ideas out there as I have NO IDEA how hard that might be.

Blending only works well (or reliably well) when the two channels have similar architectures, and thus phase responses. This is why the TT-800 does not support blending, the phase response between the two channels is very different (due to the voicing architecture).

An example of a switchable/blendable 2 channel preamp would be the ShuttleMax series.

 

[J Wilson]

The sheet metal and mechanicals get very expensive in a hurry, it ends up with cost creep that would make an already expensive product even more expensive.



Blending only works well (or reliably well) when the two channels have similar architectures, and thus phase responses. This is why the TT-800 does not support blending, the phase response between the two channels is very different (due to the voicing architecture).

An example of a switchable/blendable 2 channel preamp would be the ShuttleMax series.

As always, Thanks Andy, for my continuing education !

JW

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

Would any new product be considered to be part of the Subway family, or will there be a new series of variations on a theme?

As much as we like to imagine features and functions, having a new series allows for a striped-down model, and then a couple variants so as to appeal to a broader market, (as the success of the Subway line variants prove).

Maybe instead of all kinds of fancy bells and whistles we think we may desire, if this may be separate from the Subway line, we can think about what features a base model could have, and then replicate the success of the Subway variants by suggesting a couple or three other configurations.

In my experience new product projects are often given a name that is not what the final product will be known as. I recall names based on Greek mythology such as "Project Xerxes" or an animal like "Anaconda" etc were used.

Maybe this new product development program is preliminarily called "Project Palomino" internally

 

[agedhorse]

Would any new product be considered to be part of the Subway family, or will there be a new series of variations on a theme?

As much as we like to imagine features and functions, having a new series allows for a striped-down model, and then a couple variants so as to appeal to a broader market, (as the success of the Subway line variants prove).

Maybe instead of all kinds of fancy bells and whistles we think we may desire, if this may be separate from the Subway line, we can think about what features a base model could have, and then replicate the success of the Subway variants by suggesting a couple or three other configurations.

In my experience new product projects are often given a name that is not what the final product will be known as. I recall names based on Greek mythology such as "Project Xerxes" or an animal like "Anaconda" etc were used.

Maybe this new product development program is preliminarily called "Project Palomino" internally

Funny!

Actually, it's all information gathering that may not apply to any single project but more trying to gauge what players are looking for in the future. For example, there's been very little talk about DSP based products and I think that what's not asked for is just as important than the wants.

 

[LSM07]

Funny!

Actually, it's all information gathering that may not apply to any single project but more trying to gauge what players are looking for in the future. For example, there's been very little talk about DSP based products and I think that what's not asked for is just as important than the wants.

Well, considering that you're gathering information, I would still point out again that there are few amps being produced with doublers in mind these days. AI and EA are gone, and those were kind of the obvious manufacturers for people who double. If Mesa offered a 2-channel, 2-input (pre-) amp they'd be one of the few on the market that do anymore. Combined with the inclusion of an HPF per channel, then it'd be filling a missing gap in the market, IMO, and a no-brainer for any doublers who don't already have a 2-input/2-channel amp.