Double Bass Potential Ohio DB amp shootout/hang/axecheck/ belchfest

[tombowlus]

Almost forgot, one of the surprises on Tuesday was Tom's LDS neo 1x8 3-way cab.

+1

 

[Uncletoad]

Something else has occurred to me after gigs on Tues, Weds, and Thursday. Each night I was in a different place with very different acoustics. Tuesday I was outside about 50 feet from a busy intersection where the traffic noise was so loud I couldn't hear my bass at times. Weds I was in a real nice room like a big barn with a fireplace. Tonight I was in the corner of a little bar. My stuff sounded radically different in each place.

Chris's rig sounded great solo in place in the little room we were working in. I was especially taken by the sound up on a pole. I tried to copy that with a table on weds and it sounded great in that room. Tonight I tried to put it up on a stool and it sounded terrible. I ended up with the cab back on the floor against a wall tilted up on it's legs.

In general I go for lots more low end than most jazz fellows do but then my gigs are usually louder blues/rock/country kinds of things that need that supportive low end.

I did like it that when it was up in the air it was easier to hear when I was in tune and the notes had more character.

In addition I noticed in the belching the Woods VL208 combo with the Raven Labs and the Full Circle sounded boomy and strident compared to the Acoustic Image and the 208 on a pole. The latter sounding open and dry.

On the gig with lots of ambient noise and drums and singers and guitars and drinks and conversations the Woods/208 Combo sounded big and clear and clean. I get tons of compliments on that sound every time I play.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this except to say that while we tried out a bunch of stuff it was in a room smaller than most people play in without any other distractions or any other instruments for that matter.

As such any generalizations drawn from our observations must be taken in context. Especially knowing that the sound Chris goes for is different than the sound I go for. Also keep in mind that on the gig depending on the other players and the room other variables can complicate matters and what may work well in one context may sound terrible in another.

Which is a long winded way of saying YMMV.

 

[tombowlus]

I'm not sure where I'm going with this except to say that while we tried out a bunch of stuff it was in a room smaller than most people play in without any other distractions or any other instruments for that matter.

As such any generalizations drawn from our observations must be taken in context. Especially knowing that the sound Chris goes for is different than the sound I go for. Also keep in mind that on the gig depending on the other players and the room other variables can complicate matters and what may work well in one context may sound terrible in another.

Which is a long winded way of saying YMMV.

Excellent point, and a big old +1

 

[bassame]

As such any generalizations drawn from our observations must be taken in context. Especially knowing that the sound Chris goes for is different than the sound I go for. Also keep in mind that on the gig depending on the other players and the room other variables can complicate matters and what may work well in one context may sound terrible in another.

Which is a long winded way of saying YMMV.

This was my immediate response to your first report, but I'm glad you said it. It sort of undermines the value of the belch fest as a consumer reports for equipment, IMHO, but it remains a great way to hang out and listen to other players and drink beer.

 

[macmrkt]

Thanks to all for this effort. I've been reading it closely. I truly wish I was there.

I've gone through some of the gear that was in the test and I think I even owned a lot of it. What I've never tried are any Glocks or the IP112. Both are on my list to get to SOON!

Regarding Uncle's very inciteful comments...in my own room I got different results. In that room to my ears, the LDS smaller cabinets were more to my liking than the VL208 or VL110 when using an Arnold DB with a Full Circle. Did I have a bum 208? It was a NOS, so unlikely. I then found the Epi 110UL beat out the LDS cabs. And lastly, the Markbass Traveler cabinets bettered the Epi, which is where I am now. But I bet that if I tried these tests in a variety of rooms, my mileage would've varied. But I didn't. The Markbass cabs work great becuase the varied configurations they offer match the varying gigs I do and all weigh in at 35lbs or less - a big priority for me. Of course, speakers do react quite a bit with the rooms they are placed in, especially in bass frequencies, so definately, YMMV.

Regarding the Markbass heads...well that's another thread as I sold off WW's after hearing them.

Anyone want to loan me an IP112 (please add the TD100 too...)? By the way, it seems as if the Stewart Audio recommended preamp is battery powered? Is that true? Is it still on the market? And is the Summit AC powered or battery?

 

[pjhandlin]

Another thanks to all for taking the time to provide such helpful observations.

I'm wondering about the IP112 and DB...

I always preferred my Acme B1 vs HT112 with my DB for reasons similar to what Chris Fitz. described earlier in the thread. I had always thought that the nature of the 12" driver of the Berg somehow seemed to make the voice and articulation of my DB playing a little less natural vs the 10" + midrange driver of the Acme B1.

I have noticed this with either the Clarus or Walter Woods and I think that I hear the nature of the driver size contributing to this difference as a separate variable from pickup selection (underwood vs rev. solo), coloration from preamp/amp (Clarus vs Woods) and coloration from the speaker/crossover/freq response (if this is even possible to separate as a characteristic from driver size).

Would a low pass filter help the HT112? (I have an old Clarus without)

Would the transition from HT112 to IP112 improve this phenomenon?

 

[sejarus]

I have a Clarus III (I've only had it for a week or so) and am using it with a Berg HT112 that I absolutely love for slab but so far am disappointed for URB. The HT112 sounds great at low volume, but starts mushing out when I push the gain to only about 1/4. Neither of the filters seem to help this issue much. So what causes the problem: driver? 8 ohm cab? something else? Pilot error? I dunno. But I am reading this thread with a lot of interest...

 

[Freddels]

I had the Focus set with the exact EQ curve that works best with the VL208: HP filter set between 80-100Hz; bass controls on both channels at about 10 O'clock, mid and treble controls at somewhere between 10 and 11. I was being extremely selfish and using the 208 as the "gold standard", so that when we did the A/B testing, Joe was just switching the cable from the 208 to the other cabs one at a time. Only rarely did I try to adjust the EQ much at all with the different cabs...only when one sounded "interesting/in the ballpark" of the sound I already like.

Scientific, it was not! In the real world, if I was really exploring a cab's sound, I'd spend quite some time finding its EQ "sweet spot"; we didn't have time for that here. So I guess what the results really showed were that the LDS 1x8, Glock 12, and Berg IP 12 sounded pretty good when run with the basic EQ settings that already sounded good with the VL208.

With the EQ just set for one particular cab really doesn't do justice to the other cabs and skews the results. I think you guys need to go back and do this right (by tweaking the EQ for each particular cab).

 

[Uncletoad]

This was my immediate response to your first report, but I'm glad you said it. It sort of undermines the value of the belch fest as a consumer reports for equipment, IMHO, but it remains a great way to hang out and listen to other players and drink beer.

It's never been my intention to be any kind of consumer authority on Double Bass gear. Anything that anybody purchases should be vetted by whatever process they need to make their own decisions. My opinion is just that. And what the hell do I know anyhow.

The beginning middle and end of belchfest was about a gathering of folks and an auditioning of stuff in a concentrated setting entirely for our own amusement. Nice for an afternoon lunch and a way to put a face on a name on a computer screen.

It was far from a true gear shootout with controls and spinny evaluation gizmos. There was no intention of doing anything perfect or right or even close to fair.

Do I need to say anything else Sam?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

The beginning middle and end of belchfest was about a gathering of folks and an auditioning of stuff in a concentrated setting entirely for our own amusement. Nice for an afternoon lunch and a way to put a face on a name on a computer screen.

It was far from a true gear shootout with controls and spinny evaluation gizmos. There was no intention of doing anything perfect or right or even close to fair.

Amen, bro. Sure was fun, though!

 

[Uncletoad]

Amen, bro. Sure was fun, though!

Got that right. I'd do it again in a second.

 

[tombowlus]

Got that right. I'd do it again in a second.

Want to drive to Fremont tomorrow night? I am having an impromptu GTG.

 

[Uncletoad]

Want to drive to Fremont tomorrow night? I am having an impromptu GTG.

Temptress. You are the Succubus of Bass.

 

[tombowlus]

Temptress. You are the Succubus of Bass.

So, you're in?

 

[tombowlus]

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Great playing! I apologize for my commentary and for making y'all lean your heads at the end!

[Edit: for the most part, what you are hearing is the unamplified sound of each instrument. Phil is plugged in, but I turned the amp pretty much all the way off.]

Tom.

[Edit: WARNING! This is a very large clip, and will take some time to load.]

 

[shwashwa]

do a search for fishman pro platinum BASS. there's one that's not specifically for bass too. that's the one with the notch filter. the one for bass has a depth control. i really dont know why they call it that, what it really is is a high pass filter sweepable from 15-125. bob g has it for sale on his site with a little write up.

from bob's site:
Depth control for big bottom without boom or flab; 12dB/octave low cut filter, 15 to 125 Hz
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low cut is same as high pass... i believe on he focus the refer to it as a low cut filter too.
i like the voicing of the sliders too. the high mid one does a good job of cutting out the sound of my fingers sliding on the strings, wich i hate.

if you get a chance to try it, i'd love to hear what you think of it compared to the summit and the focus with the low cut.

The google search I tried only turned up a unit with a notch filter - I didn't see a high pass filter in the specs. Can you send me a link to the unit you have?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Note: the Summit DI/preamp discussion has been moved Here. Please go to the new thread to discuss DI issues.