- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass Potential Ohio DB amp shootout/hang/axecheck/ belchfest
- Thread starter Chris Fitzgerald
- Start date
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
So NOW my AMT shows back up again. Couldn't have come yesterday when I needed it for the belching...
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,515
- 19,945
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Wilbyman said:
Yes, it is, but that is not the preamp which must not be named! But dang, now that I think about it, I should have brought that one, too.
Very good guess, though!Wilbyman said:
Whoo hoo!!!
Joe Smithberger said:
Damn, Joe - that was quick!
I'd like to mention at this point that Joe had the hippest digital camera I've ever seen in my life. Turns out he's got a pretty cool day gig.
I should mention at this point that Bob Branstetter made a great AMT mounting system and was gracious enough to send me one for sharing the info about what Gary Falk did to the elctronic end of mine, but that I'm too technically challenged to install the thing. When I finally get Nnick to do it, I'll be sure to bring a camera.
When you do - whether you try to DIY or get someone else (I got Gary Falk to do mine) - I'll be happy to email Gary for suggestions on safe ways to do it. He's designed a million different PA systems and knows this stuff cold. I have to admit to gassing a little bit for one of those LDS 1x8's with a stand mount that was designed in...
JOHONO said:
It only really "tanked" for me with the AMT, but considering our methods, that doesn't really say too much. Basically, on my half of the DB rotation, I had the Focus set with the exact EQ curve that works best with the VL208: HP filter set between 80-100Hz; bass controls on both channels at about 10 O'clock, mid and treble controls at somewhere between 10 and 11. I was being extremely selfish and using the 208 as the "gold standard", so that when we did the A/B testing, Joe was just switching the cable from the 208 to the other cabs one at a time. Only rarely did I try to adjust the EQ much at all with the different cabs...only when one sounded "interesting/in the ballpark" of the sound I already like.
Scientific, it was not! In the real world, if I was really exploring a cab's sound, I'd spend quite some time finding its EQ "sweet spot"; we didn't have time for that here. So I guess what the results really showed were that the LDS 1x8, Glock 12, and Berg IP 12 sounded pretty good when run with the basic EQ settings that already sounded good with the VL208.
That said, the speakers that I really disliked were the Raezer's Edge cabs and the Markbass for their "boxiness". While I understand that that isn't a "quantifiable" description, I still wouldn't bother working with them for this reason.
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
I didn't realize that. How far from flat is that? I was using the Woods flat.Chris Fitzgerald said:
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,515
- 19,945
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Uncletoad said:
I was really impressed with the Focus. Combine this experience with how good Mike Fredericks' Focus sounded at my previous GTG, and this amp is on my short list for sure!
PAJAMA SERENADE said:
Well, flat would be with everything set at high noon and the HP filters off. As you've probably figured out, I'm not a techie, so I'm not sure how much of what frequencies were rolled off by the book. To be fair, though, my basic settings as described in the earlier post are based on compensating for the AMT and Full Circle sounds that annoy me on my bass with the Dominants on...the FC is too "gooey" and bottom heavy without some rolloff (or a phase switch, which is even better, as the mystery preamp showed), and the mic was EQ'd to remove the resonant frequencies that stick around when you play a short note and then mute the strings completely; in other words, I try to EQ it to get it to sound "dry".
Hey Tom, have you tried a Radial JDV as a front end to that IP cab? It looks like it has an interesting feature set.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,515
- 19,945
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Joe Smithberger said:Hey Tom, have you tried a Radial JDV as a front end to that IP cab? It looks like it has an interesting feature set.
Not yet.
Sounds like you guys had a blast! While I'm an EB player, I have a number of buddies who play DB (particularly Ric Vice, who is a TBer). It's amazing to me how different amps and cabs can sound with different upright basses and pickups. This is somewhat true with EB, but man, with DB, it's taken to a whole other level. Ric played his DB with Realist pickup through my Focus and an EA VL110, and it was the most god-awful thing I've ever heard.... dark, muddy, boomy, mushy. When we switched to the Walter (a newer Ultra).. it was like magic... open, full range, woody, precise..... wonderful.
However, obviously, the AI stuff sounds fantastic with other basses and pickups. I thought we EB players had it tough mixing and matching gear to optimize our sound, but man, you guys are in a whole other league!
However, obviously, the AI stuff sounds fantastic with other basses and pickups. I thought we EB players had it tough mixing and matching gear to optimize our sound, but man, you guys are in a whole other league!
SFREUD said:
That makes perfect sense. The Realist is my second least favorite pickup next to the Fishman BP100 - they're polar opposites: the Realist is dark and boomy, and the Fishman is bright and scratchy. The Woods I heard yesterday was voiced far brighter in the mids and highs than the Focus, so it should probably sound better for the Realist. You're right about the "crapshoot" aspect of DB amplification, though! Every one is different.
I still love the HP filters on the Focus, though...were you using it with the Realist when you tried it?
Hey Guys-
That sounds like a great time. Chris- don't know if you can answer this but how would you compare your rig to a GK150MB? That's what I've got and have been looking to change it up. I must say I've seen Ron Carter do the cabinet on a stand before and thought it was kinda weird, although it sounded ok. I guess I'll have to A/B this stuff to know for sure. How would you describe your amp sound? Bottomy? Clear? Mids? Woofy? Zingy?
And just so I'm clear, you're using:
Fishman Full Circle PU
AMT clip on Mic
AI Focus head
Euphonic Audio VL208
Any ideas would be much appreciated...
Thanks.
That sounds like a great time. Chris- don't know if you can answer this but how would you compare your rig to a GK150MB? That's what I've got and have been looking to change it up. I must say I've seen Ron Carter do the cabinet on a stand before and thought it was kinda weird, although it sounded ok. I guess I'll have to A/B this stuff to know for sure. How would you describe your amp sound? Bottomy? Clear? Mids? Woofy? Zingy?
And just so I'm clear, you're using:
Fishman Full Circle PU
AMT clip on Mic
AI Focus head
Euphonic Audio VL208
Any ideas would be much appreciated...
Thanks.
Chris Fitzgerald said:
Makes sense, and thanks for that insight.
The filter didn't help very much with that particular set-up. It wasn't that the low end was super boomy... just that the whole thing was dark and somewhat mushy... again, not the best match-up... especially given the dark sound of the old VL110 (IMO, anyway).
I have found the HP useful with EB in big rooms with a large cab... set to its lowest level, it does tighten things up... nice!
LUCILLEBERT said:
Well, I'm pretty biased, but I guess I'd describe it as "Clear", or to use the dreaded word, "transparent". I'm really shooting for the mythical "my bass, only louder" sound. Maybe the other guys who are more objective could help with this comparison.
I'm not a big fan of the GK amps, so I don't know that I can compare them - to me, they sound kind of compressed and "Polytoneish", especially at anything over a whisper. That said, our own PULL WARMBATON gets a great sound out of a Polytone, so go figure!
Yup, that's the rig.
The standmount thing serves a few functions for me:
* it lets me hear my attack and intonation immediately and up close in situations where the wash of the rest of the band would otherwise obscure it.
* it gets the speaker up over the body of the bass, which greatly diminishes weird resonant frequencies and feedback loop ****age being transmitted from the cab to the body of the bass and back through the pickups.
* It lets everyone else hear the bass sound without the artificial boom from the floor coupling.
* allows me to use less amp to hear myself, and therefore less amp in general. If I get comments about volume with this system, they are usually of the "turn it up" rather than the "turn it down" variety. When the drummer wants more but I don't, I just rotate the speaker a bit more in his direction.
HTH!
Just as a general observation, I've never seen anyone say anything bad about Walter's amplifiers. There are people who might prefer something else slightly for one reason or another, but that always comes along with an acknowledgement that WW also sounds great. It's telling of how great and timeless his amps are.
Just like you guys speak of the VL208 as a reference or a standard to be met, the WW is sort of the same way. If I could have any cabinet, it would be the VL208 now that I own a WWU.
Just like you guys speak of the VL208 as a reference or a standard to be met, the WW is sort of the same way. If I could have any cabinet, it would be the VL208 now that I own a WWU.
I remember when I got my GKMB150 12 years ago; at the time it was THE package to have for light weight gigs....ah, how times have changed....
funnily enough though: Dave Holland and Charlie Haden still use it.
funnily enough though: Dave Holland and Charlie Haden still use it.
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
That's the rig I use on all my gigs. I'm not in any hurry to change it. I've raved about my WWU quite a bit in other posts. The Focus was compelling throughout yesterdays trials. It was much more of a usefull reference standard than the WWU. I was not expecting that.Tbeers said:
