Praise & Worship amps / IEM's

[Ron Berenato]

I'm all over the place on this, but I sold off my gigging rig around 25/30 years ago (Mesa Boogie 400+ and various cabs). I want to play again, but my hearts just not in the nightclub scene any more. Also my hectic grandparent schedule is not conducive to being a working musician. I believe that playing in church is going to be my best outlet for playing in the foreseeable future. So, for you Praise & Worship players, what are you using? I can't play accurately without being able to hear myself well, so some kind of small amp setup is what I'm looking into. Maybe a small combo or a Phil Jones set up. I want the small Mesa class D with a single 15 cab but is that too much?

 

[el murdoque]

I want the small Mesa class D with a single 15 cab but is that too much?

It has, like most other bass amps, a volume knob.

 

[michael_t]

I want the small Mesa class D with a single 15 cab but is that too much?

I'm mainly a church bassist. Just got myself a GK Legacy 800 and Neo IV 212. I know it's an overkill for what I do, but hey... it never hurts to have a rig you enjoy playing through.

 

[eniac]

I'm all over the place on this, but I sold off my gigging rig around 25/30 years ago (Mesa Boogie 400+ and various cabs). I want to play again, but my hearts just not in the nightclub scene any more. Also my hectic grandparent schedule is not conducive to being a working musician. I believe that playing in church is going to be my best outlet for playing in the foreseeable future. So, for you Praise & Worship players, what are you using? I can't play accurately without being able to hear myself well, so some kind of small amp setup is what I'm looking into. Maybe a small combo or a Phil Jones set up. I want the small Mesa class D with a single 15 cab but is that too much?

Bass guitar IS going through the PA, correct?

The church is NOT running a click track, correct?

 

[ItsmeSantiago]

Sounds like you don't play at a megachurch with that infrastructure built in, so if you want an amp the class D stuff is nice because you can play them at low volumes and they sound nice.

If you're using IEM, do you need an amp? A nice set of universal three driver IEM would do the trick for most bassists. Alclair caters to the CCW crowd nicely and they have a nice product.

 

[Ron Berenato]

Bass guitar IS going through the PA, correct?

The church is NOT running a click track, correct?

I'm looking ahead. The two churches I attend have regular bass players and are going through the PA. Click tracks, I have no idea. They have live drummers.

 

[Ron Berenato]

Sounds like you don't play at a megachurch with that infrastructure built in, so if you want an amp the class D stuff is nice because you can play them at low volumes and they sound nice.

If you're using IEM, do you need an amp? A nice set of universal three driver IEM would do the trick for most bassists. Alclair caters to the CCW crowd nicely and they have a nice product.

I have zero experience with IEM's. I wouldn't know if I 'd be content with them or not. I'm hoping that the people I will be playing with will be interested in some garage jamming on the side. So obviously, a small amp would be the ticket. I just don't want to invest in something that's way over what I'll need in a church setting. I'm seeing fewer and fewer amps on stage at most churches. I figured I could make an informed purchase if I knew what most guys were using.

 

[ItsmeSantiago]

I have zero experience with IEM's. I wouldn't know if I 'd be content with them or not. I'm hoping that the people I will be playing with will be interested in some garage jamming on the side. So obviously, a small amp would be the ticket. I just don't want to invest in something that's way over what I'll need in a church setting. I'm seeing fewer and fewer amps on stage at most churches. I figured I could make an informed purchase if I knew what most guys were using.

I haven't used an amp in church since the early 2000s. If you have the ability to go with IEM it's a nice feature to have because you can control your own mix, save your back having to lug around an amp, and FOH can make sure you're sounding like a cohesive unit on stage.

UV3 Universal Triple Driver I used custom molded IEM for a long time but I'm considering get a set of these for studio and stage use. Alclair people are good humans.

 

[SteveC]

I have 3 way Westone IEM's and love them. I use a Stomp at church. All you really need is a good DI. Maybe a compressor and eq. I use a pretty basic tone at church.

Any small amp would prob ably work if you need/want to go that direction.

 

[backin82]

I have zero experience with IEM's. I wouldn't know if I 'd be content with them or not. I'm hoping that the people I will be playing with will be interested in some garage jamming on the side. So obviously, a small amp would be the ticket. I just don't want to invest in something that's way over what I'll need in a church setting. I'm seeing fewer and fewer amps on stage at most churches. I figured I could make an informed purchase if I knew what most guys were using.

You asked, so I'll tell you what I use.

About 10 years ago, I was using my GK MB212 combo and also running IEMs. I liked feeling some air movement, and the FOH guys didn't mind having the extra bass on stage. About 6 years ago, I abandoned that method, and just use my Shure SE215 IEM, and don't lug my amp to church.

While I still enjoy the sound and playing experience more when I have my amp, it's definitely more work to have it, and sometimes complicates the FOH job.

I still use my amp when I play in other groups, even with IEM, but for church, I now only run the IEM, and it makes everything simpler for me and everyone else. I've learned how to get some sounds I like to my ears with the IEM, and accept the slight downgrade in playing experience, but it's worth it for the simplicity given the scenario.

 

[Ron Berenato]

You asked, so I'll tell you what I use.

About 10 years ago, I was using my GK MB212 combo and also running IEMs. I liked feeling some air movement, and the FOH guys didn't mind having the extra bass on stage. About 6 years ago, I abandoned that method, and just use my Shure SE215 IEM, and don't lug my amp to church.

While I still enjoy the sound and playing experience more when I have my amp, it's definitely more work to have it, and sometimes complicates the FOH job.

I still use my amp when I play in other groups, even with IEM, but for church, I now only run the IEM, and it makes everything simpler for me and everyone else. I've learned how to get some sounds I like to my ears with the IEM, and accept the slight downgrade in playing experience, but it's worth it for the simplicity given the scenario.

Thanks. This is exactly the feedback I needed. It seems the IEM experience is what I'll have to look forward to, and if I want an amp, something small and 200 - 300 watts would be sufficient. I've made some poor gear purchases in the past so I want this one to be a good one. I'm liking the idea of the Phil Jones stuff with the tiny cabinets but I'm curious if tiny cab = tiny sound.

 

[backin82]

Thanks. This is exactly the feedback I needed. It seems the IEM experience is what I'll have to look forward to, and if I want an amp, something small and 200 - 300 watts would be sufficient. I've made some poor gear purchases in the past so I want this one to be a good one. I'm liking the idea of the Phil Jones stuff with the tiny cabinets but I'm curious if tiny cab = tiny sound.

I would guess most churches run IEM these days. My church is far from a "megachurch", but is fairly sizable, so I'm not sure what smaller churches may or may not be doing. It's probably best and most accurate to consider your amp as a stage monitor for yourself, and not something you'll rely on for anyone else, including FOH. Once you relieve the pressure on the amp in that way, a lot more choices start to make sense, including lower powered 1x12's, 2x10's, etc...

 

[eniac]

I'm looking ahead. The two churches I attend have regular bass players and are going through the PA. Click tracks, I have no idea. They have live drummers.

Stated as simply as possible, do what the current bass players are doing.

If the bands are running backing tracks, you can be 99% certain they're running click tracks to keep things in sync. You will have to use IEMs, and an on-stage amp will be useless if not downright unwelcome.

Communicate with the churches' tech teams right now and ask them what they do, how they do it, and what each player is expected to bring. Do it via email, and when you load up for the drive there, bring a printed copy of their response, so if they squawk about something you "forgot" to bring, you can produce that email proving you satisfied the requirements.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Thanks. This is exactly the feedback I needed. It seems the IEM experience is what I'll have to look forward to, and if I want an amp, something small and 200 - 300 watts would be sufficient. I've made some poor gear purchases in the past so I want this one to be a good one. I'm liking the idea of the Phil Jones stuff with the tiny cabinets but I'm curious if tiny cab = tiny sound.

It's awful hard to find a bass combo or amp head in the 200-300w range that doesn't have a DI built in, so you're in good shape there. If the rig is too loud for the stage, you can always kill the volume and use the DI with in-ears or stage monitors. I don't currently play at a church, but I've played for plenty of them in the past. Rigs ranging from a VT Bass Deluxe going direct, to a Peavey VB2 into a Kasino 2x15s cabinet (that was for a youth P&W group).

My optimal rig was a GK MB500 with a 2x10 cabinet sat vertically. Small stage footprint (same as a 1x10 combo), plenty of volume headroom, and plenty of options out there since 2x10s is a common speaker config. You can always add on another 2x10 if more volume is needed. You can also bring just the head to go DI, or toss it on the cab with the volume cut off if it's an IEM-only service. As long as it's a small class D head and 2x10 cab of some kind it should be similar results for you.

 

[TheReceder]

I've donated numerous small combos to my church, !st, a trace elliot strange little amp with a slot in the front, an upcoming bassist I was teaching needed an amp so I brought in a Carvin amp that was doing nothing in the basement. and gave him the trace.

The carvin... somehow it bit the dust and I bought a rumble 100, seems to do plenty. I'm sitting about 2 feet from the drumms and there's plenty of headroom. My issue is there are 3 bassist of varying capabilities that use the amp, so I didn't want to donate anything I'd miss.

Would I leave a Phil Jones, or a Mesa... It may be a Church, but I don't want to tempt fate.

 

[joeLowB]

Playing in a church...the set up at the particular church where you play will almost certainly be determined for you and not by you. If they have a FOH layout, then that's what you'll have. Do they use IEMs? If yes, figure out what set will work for you. If they expect the players to bring their own amps, then that's what you'll need. Don't overthink it...just ask at the churches where you think you'll play.

FWIW, I use a Rumble 100 combo amp at home to prepare. We have a supplied bass monitor with DI at our church, so I just carry in my bass and plug in. I don't even use a pedal board. Simple.

Also, FWIW, my observation is that my role as a bass player in our worship band is to support the vocals and keyboards, most of all. Any subtleties of my tone shaping is largely accomplished via the EQ on the supplied DI and by whatever the FOH chooses to do. Put another way, my almost exclusive focus is on playing skill, not tone shaping. That's what matters most.

My 2c!! Welcome back to playing!!

 

[JamesGrant]

Churches are very varied - some have no budget for PA, some have massively expensive systems that'd be the envy of any commercial venue.
Some churches have musical line-ups reminiscent of Prince and The Revolution, some have seemingly deaf singers accompanied by randomly tuned instruments. There often seems to be little correlation between the ability of the musicians and the quality of the PA or the ability of the sound technicians.
Some churches are the size of a small school classroom, some churches are the size of an entire college campus.
Size and number of attendees doesn't seem to be a reliable determining factor in PA budget/ability or the musical proficiency.
Without seeing a pic of your Sunday service from the congregation perspective, it's really hard to give situationally appropriate recommendation. A photo of the Sunday service in full swing would paint a thousand words (and be very interesting!!).

 

[Wasnex]

I'm all over the place on this, but I sold off my gigging rig around 25/30 years ago (Mesa Boogie 400+ and various cabs). I want to play again, but my hearts just not in the nightclub scene any more. Also my hectic grandparent schedule is not conducive to being a working musician. I believe that playing in church is going to be my best outlet for playing in the foreseeable future. So, for you Praise & Worship players, what are you using? I can't play accurately without being able to hear myself well, so some kind of small amp setup is what I'm looking into. Maybe a small combo or a Phil Jones set up. I want the small Mesa class D with a single 15 cab but is that too much?

If you can easily afford it and have the space, get your dream rig. I own a fairly large amp collection. Here are the Mesa amps I have: D180, 400, 400+, Buster, Strategy Eight:88, Titan V12, M9 Carbine.

For the most part I stopped gigging on bass around 2008. I did a few years after that as an audio tech and probably did 5 gigs on bass. In 2011 I started collecting amps. They are my guilty pleasure and they serve little practical purpose other than to give me joy.


If the church is set up for IEMs and has a good audio tech, that's the way I would go. Halls of worship are often big boomy environments, so it best to keep the stage volume low; not that this always happens in worship groups.

If you want to use an amp and the stage volume is relatively low, I would suggest a small rig that can be tilted back in front of you. I have an old GK 700RB/112 combo. It's bit on the large side for this purpose; about the same size as a Subway 115.
Keeping it small may not be reasonable if the group plays loud. A Mesa D350 with a Subway 115 is relatively small and will be capable of moderate volume. The Subway 112 is a bit smaller and you only loose about 1dB of Sensitivity. If you add a matching cab with the D350 you get +6dB. Using an 800W Subway amp with a single cab will give you +3.5dB over the D350. FYI the Boogie channel in the TT800 was modeled on the 400 and 400+ .

Calculated SPL (estimates):

• D350 with one Subway 112 = ~120dB
• D350 with two Subway 112 = ~126dB
• D350 with one Subway 115 = ~121dB
• D350 with two Subway 115 = ~127dB

• 800 with one Subway 112 = ~ 123.5dB
• 800 with two Subway 112 = ~ 129.5dB
• 800 with one Subway 115 = ~ 124.5dB
• 800 with two Subway 115 + ~ 130.5dB

 

[Wasnex]

If you go with IEMs, some sort of preamp/DI could be useful. This will give you tone and volume controls at your finger tips, so you can dial in you sound directly. You will need to work with the audio tech. Also keep in mind any changes you make will be distributed to every mix in the system. So I suggest getting your tone dialed in early during sound check and then trying to lock it down, so you don't cause problems during the performance.

 

[John D Harris]

The GR Bass AT Cube 350 Combo is 350W into a great 12" driver and HF driver, weighs 16lbs, and should sound awesome, just a bit pricy (~ $1330).

I have weird ear canals, that I've never found any IEM's that fit well enough to work like they should.
I had some custom earplugs made at one point (the custom molding tech) and they wouldn't stay in my ears enough to work.

I have a Two Notes Opus Modeler and a Fender Rumble 100 Combo that is the 4 Ohm version that I put a Celestion BN12-300S (4) in and it sounds Really Good, but if I could afford the GR Bass Cube above, I'd definitely go that way.