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Pre-Eq Signal?

#22
FenderB said:
So if I understand this correctly what the band hears through their amps (monitors) could be completely different from what the audience is hearing depending on how good the sound guy is. So in theory you could be sounding great on stage, what you hear, but like poopie to the audience.
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Which is one of the reasons you don't want to annoy the sound guys before your gig!
 
#23
MDBass said:
That's not necessarily true; it may be on the local bar/club circuit with less experienced players and sound men, but not on the pro level.

Essentially all professional touring bands use pedalboards, which for bass players usually includes at least one preamp; ALL of those signals are post, and it's never an issue getting those signals to sound great in the house when all parties are pros and know what they're doing.
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I don't know man, I've been to some big name shows that sounded like absolute ass. Don't assume that because someone is getting paid a lot of money that they know what they're doing. (This applies to every profession IME.)
 
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#24
XLunacy said:
Fixed it for you :laugh:
Can't see why my pedalboard EQ should be out of the equation, when an onboard EQ is not.
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You can run whatever you want and insert whatever effect in your chain at whatever point you wish. But most sound men providing a direct box prefer it pre eq, pre effects, pre whatever you want to split hairs with, and only want the raw sound of your bass, bypassing the effects and processing chain you have. Why? Because they don't have to worry about bad/noisy/weird sounding signals coming from the rig. Right or wrong, this is how the process starts. A pre eq send is generally seen as a non colored signal, straight from the bass when it's spoken about by sound techs.

In my case, I am a professional, I work with professionals, and I don't send a dry signal to the board ever. I run at minimum my wireless into a rack mounted preamp, which I have dialed in to provide a good sound that does not deprive the sound engineer of freqs he needs to have my bass sit right in the mix. All it takes is a very brief moment of us talking and he can see I'm not a novice and know what I'm talking about. Often I get a second line from my mic'd cab also in the mix. The only direct box I would ever use would be a Reddi, because for the majority of my gigs, this would produce a close sound to what I like to run.

I'm not saying that sound guys won't work with your effects, and if you have a good working sound you should be fine.

Some of the opening bands we had on tour had issues with pedal boards. Honestly, it was usually a guitarist having issues with a beat up pedalboard or an old tele, as there is only so much a noise gate can cover. Some of the basses ran some light effects, and issues were tinny, thin sounding bass signals. The sound tech was usually able to get a good sound eventually, but I heard grumbles coming from the desk at times, lol.
 
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#25
There may be a need for you to sound very different on the stage than you do to the audience.
The other end of the bar/auditorium/stadium may have very different acoustics than on stage.
A good sound person will make you sound good out in the room.
Therein lies the rub. Having a good sound person.

The more you understand his job, the better you two are able to talk about the needs of the many.
Just don't be one of those, a little knowledge is dangerous, types and try to tell him how to do his job.
A good sound person will not be threatened by you asking questions, and you may learn a thing or two.
 
#26
FenderB said:
So if I understand this correctly what the band hears through their amps (monitors) could be completely different from what the audience is hearing depending on how good the sound guy is. So in theory you could be sounding great on stage, what you hear, but like poopie to the audience.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately yes, this is a possibility. Then again the other is also possible, and many be even more common: the sound on stage is just barely good enough to hear yourself and play, but out front it sounds pretty good.
 
#27
I will note this: all of the better engineers I work with are fine with post EQ. And even if they aren't, they *are* getting my effects! No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Those effects are part of my performance and they are coming through FOH. I don't have a pre-amp or EQ on my pedal board, so as far as I am concerned that is a pre-EQ DI signal.
 
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#28
FuturePrimitive said:
I don't know man, I've been to some big name shows that sounded like absolute ass. Don't assume that because someone is getting paid a lot of money that they know what they're doing. (This applies to every profession IME.)
Click to expand...

I wasn't assuming anything, just speaking from experience; I didn't say anything about money, and specifically said "if they know what they're doing".

Don't assume that the big name show sounded like ass just because the bassist may or may not have been sending a post EQ signal ;)
 
#29
JGbassman said:
You can run whatever you want and insert whatever effect in your chain at whatever point you wish. But most sound men providing a direct box prefer it pre eq, pre effects, pre whatever you want to split hairs with, and only want the raw sound of your bass, bypassing the effects and processing chain you have. Why? Because they don't have to worry about bad/noisy/weird sounding signals coming from the rig. Right or wrong, this is how the process starts. A pre eq send is generally seen as a non colored signal, straight from the bass when it's spoken about by sound techs.

In my case, I am a professional, I work with professionals, and I don't send a dry signal to the board ever. I run at minimum my wireless into a rack mounted preamp, which I have dialed in to provide a good sound that does not deprive the sound engineer of freqs he needs to have my bass sit right in the mix. All it takes is a very brief moment of us talking and he can see I'm not a novice and know what I'm talking about. Often I get a second line from my mic'd cab also in the mix. The only direct box I would ever use would be a Reddi, because for the majority of my gigs, this would produce a close sound to what I like to run.

I'm not saying that sound guys won't work with your effects, and if you have a good working sound you should be fine.

Some of the opening bands we had on tour had issues with pedal boards. Honestly, it was usually a guitarist having issues with a beat up pedalboard or an old tele, as there is only so much a noise gate can cover. Some of the basses ran some light effects, and issues were tinny, thin sounding bass signals. The sound tech was usually able to get a good sound eventually, but I heard grumbles coming from the desk at times, lol.
Click to expand...
Thanks JG. When you say "dry signal" do you mean the pre-eq signal? Ha,ha. Sorry to be so lame about this.
 
#30
MDBass said:
I wasn't assuming anything, just speaking from experience; I didn't say anything about money, and specifically said "if they know what they're doing".
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I know, I wasn't addressing you specifically there, my comment was meant to be "in general...". Admittedly, that wasn't very clear.

And one of the shows I was thinking of specifically sounded like ass because it was nothing but subs/mud. Why must the subs be so loud?! :D
 
#31
FuturePrimitive said:
I know, I wasn't addressing you specifically there, my comment was meant to be "in general...". Admittedly, that wasn't very clear.

And one of the shows I was thinking of specifically sounded like ass because it was nothing but subs/mud. Why must the subs be so loud?! :D
Click to expand...

I feel like that lazy mixing style is now in vogue because:

A) It's easier to just worry about the kick and the vocal instead the whole mix :roflmao:

B) That's what electronic music does and some people have simply forgotten what a live band actually sounds like :meh:
 
#32
FenderB said:
Thanks JG. When you say "dry signal" do you mean the pre-eq signal? Ha,ha. Sorry to be so lame about this.
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Yea, I was implying to just the sound of only the bass going to foh. A "wet" signal often implies a signal that has been colored by the amp, cab, effects, etc. the two can be blended for a great signal to the front of house as well.
 
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#35
XLunacy said:
Can't see why my pedalboard EQ should be out of the equation, when an onboard EQ is not.
Click to expand...

Depends on how you see, and use, your EQ. I see it two-fold: corrective and shaping. Corrective EQ, to me, is mostly slight and tight (Q) cuts to help overcome slight shortcomings in your bass's, amp's, cab's or room sound. The corrective EQ you *sparingly* use to process your dry bass sound, can go to FOH.

The corrective EQ you use to cure stage rattles, acoustical standing waves or such, should not go to FOH.

The broader band shaping EQ you use for smiley face amp sound shaping, or the massive low boost to overcome the lack of low end on your 8" 20w combo onstage, should not go to FOH.

Give the FOH a reasonably flat signal. That is easiest to fit in the mix, and is a good basis for any tweaks.
 
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