Precision vs Jazz at a gig

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

Did a two-set show on Friday evening. I'd been rehearsing with my Jazz (with tapewounds) leading up to the gig, but on a whim decided to bring my Precision (with flats) to the gig also. I decided to play the first set with the P and the second with the J, just to see what the difference was.

The P was superior for the gig. Stood out in the mix really well, with plenty of punch. J got a little lost in the second set. I couldn't hear it as well.

It was an interesting adjustment, too, having rehearsed on the more narrow neck of the J and then playing the gig with the wider neck of the P. Took me a few songs to adjust.

Thinking now my P should be the go-to for full band gigs, and maybe the J for more acoustic sets.

My J bass (I’ve tried a few before settling on this I have to say) can emulate fairly well the tone of a P bass, if required, generally producing a “growlier” tone than that of many P basses equipped with stock pickups .. having said that, I believe that, in your case, the pickups model and, especially the two kinds of different strings installed on the basses made the difference, not actually the instruments’ models per se ...

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

Pretty much this for J's I put TI's on my sadowsky after not being able to find a flat or a round that i really liked 100% for it and bam.... The bass came to life.

Those talking about a P getting lost in a mix...you've probably got a bad P Bass then.

I go for the J when I want to sit in the mix and the P when I want to pop. TI's on the J and running Dunlop Flats on the P. Both are

Exactly, when I installed TI JF344 on my jazz bass (Fender Am. Original ‘60s), the bass became a gnarly P-bassey beast when working with the neck pickup at full volume, setting the bridge one at 1/3 and the tone at 1/2 ...
This bass is now really a match for my P-basses equipped with nickel roundwound strings fitted with different pickups models (Fender, EMG etc.)

 

[JimmyM]

Jimmy—the tone of everything has changed. Digital audio (and mp3 compression, etc.) is pretty much omni-present for most listeners, for better or worse. Computer speakers or iPhone earbuds, anyone? Don't get me started on crappy subs.

It's cleaner, or dirtier, or flatter, or more in tune, more quantized (or dithered), or more perfectly executed/edited, or more whatever (except profitable). That is, of course assuming we are not too deaf to notice.

That's all technology outside of the bass. You might make a case for super low lows being somewhat new, being around only, what? 25-30 years? That's new

 

[AlexanderB]

He may have spoken out of turn, but I won't. I've studied the Physics of string instruments, and although he may not know why, he is...right.

The eq that pickup position imparts is a big factor in why a P sounds like a P, and a J sounds like a J. The eq that pickup position imparts is dependent on which string you're talking about - it's a wavelength filter - where the dips and peaks are frequency wise depends on the wavelength on the string, which depends on how a particular string is tuned.

Anyway, if you take a look at the eq curve of, say the A string on a P and a J, there's a very complicated comb filter for each one. You can (in theory) make a filter that'll make the A string on a P sound like the A string on a J. It's ridiculously complicated (you'd need dsp to do it), but possible.

But...(this is a huge but) the curves for the E, D and G strings are all different. There simply is no way, once you combine the signals for all 4 strings through one pickup, to eq a J to sound like a P, or the other way 'round.

Well, of course, but that is not at all what WE discussed!
We talked about what sort of EQ you can or cannot APPLY to each instrument, not if you can make a J sound like a P! Read his post, quoted below:

Precision and Jazz basses are both great instruments, but you can’t EQ them the same. For a precision I like the mids at 12 o’clock with the treble at 2 o’clock and the bass at 3 o’clock. I haven’t owned a jazz so I really can’t give advice on that.

 

[mcnach]

This.
Putting tape wound or flats on a jazz is like stepping on the gas and the brakes at the same time. Using rounds with the tone rolled off would be a more suitable use of a jazz.
Their EQ is scooped by design. If you are expecting big punchy mids you won't get them from a jazz.

Depends on how you set the controls. You don't need to play with everything full on. If you do, then it'll be mid-scooped, but that's on you.

 

[mcnach]

Flats on a jazz is a little weird. It is fighting the inherent tone of the bass.

In your opinion.

I find flats on a Jazz to be a really good tone. Not for everything, but a really good sound. Same with tapes. Labella White Nylons in particular are great for funk on a Jazz, I find.

WE may prefer different things, but calling things outside our own preference weird is... well, weird

 

[mcnach]

Ooo, 'buddy.' How wonderfully passive aggressive.

As musicians it is kinda our jobs to know what is going on in the music world. Ignoring it is like being an athlete that ignores modern training techniques or play strategies.
I don't like pop, country, rap or hip hop but that doesn't mean I completely ignore what is happening in those genres. I may not care for it, but lots of people with lots of money do.

Ok...

 

[Sean Riddle]

I had my revelation last year while working on a musical. During college I went through a hardcore fretless J bass phase because I was still in the honeymoon stage of playing the double bass and loving the freedom of having no frets, so I decided to play strictly fretless bass for that time. And I got good at it, but really wasn't doing a lot of working musician stuff at the time. I did have a P bass just in case, but I probably played it on a one gig during college because I was so enamored with fretless bass for when I had to play electric. So I graduated last year and finally had my feet deep into the life of a working musician. I wasn't getting a lot of calls for gigs, if I was it was for double bass, but I finally got a call to play on a musical. Because those types of gigs are all about supporting the actors and providing super clear intonation I had to use my P bass that was sitting in it's case. Using a P bass, strung with Thomastik-Infeld (best string maker ever) jazz flats, for this gig was a revelation for me. It felt right, sounded right, and everyone else in the ensemble and the actors sounded right. I plugged directly into the house for this gig and when I heard myself through the theater's PA, I knew right away that is now what I want with electric bass. And now I bring and use my P bass to every gig I play electric on. I have an affordable 5 string bass for when I need it but I rarely play it and am now considering selling my fretless J bass because I just don't play it anymore since I became a full time P player. Now I would like to have an oxymoronic fretless P bass, but it's not a necessary instrument. Just give me a double bass, a P bass, and a good amp and I'm solid.

 

[JakobT]

Helt enig! God jul!

Riktig god jul til deg også!

 

[SonnyBassPlayer]

I own both a P and a J (both 2019 classic vibe models, so totally comparable quality-wise) and they are both great sounding instruments in the mix too. It depends a lot on the genre IMHO and how you interface your instruments with others (guitars, keys). They both can be killer but depending on the overall sound one can fit better depending on the case, really.

At this very moment I'm using Chrome Flats on the J bass and it nails it (plyaing with a pick). The music is 90s inspired post rock-grunge, I also use fuzz and chorus and still kicks with the flats.

 

[twinjet]

Did a two-set show on Friday evening. I'd been rehearsing with my Jazz (with tapewounds) leading up to the gig, but on a whim decided to bring my Precision (with flats) to the gig also. I decided to play the first set with the P and the second with the J, just to see what the difference was.

The P was superior for the gig. Stood out in the mix really well, with plenty of punch. J got a little lost in the second set. I couldn't hear it as well.

It was an interesting adjustment, too, having rehearsed on the more narrow neck of the J and then playing the gig with the wider neck of the P. Took me a few songs to adjust.

Thinking now my P should be the go-to for full band gigs, and maybe the J for more acoustic sets.

As mentioned, the two are not the same. I typically add some low mids to my J for a bit more booty.

 

[Jim Carr]

That's all technology outside of the bass. You might make a case for super low lows being somewhat new, being around only, what? 25-30 years? That's new

True, but that tech's action is distinctly real. As you asked originally:

...What's made bass tone so glaringly different since the 70's?...

It isn't that the bass itself is different, but those things, digital audio, mp3 compression, computer speakers/earbuds, crappy subs,
as well as the daw software making things "cleaner, or dirtier, or flatter, or more in tune, more quantized, dithered, or more perfectly executed/edited," etc., have all noticeably changed much recorded and/or live sound, including bass.

 

[Volker Kirstein]

... having rehearsed on the more narrow neck of the J and then playing the gig with the wider neck of the P. Took me a few songs to adjust. ...

Have you considered putting a J neck on a P body? Many players, myself inlcuded, enjoy that particular configuration.

I have [maple block] J necks for both my Ps. I love the hard, punchy sound of a maple fretboard, the slim feel of a jazz neck, and have always been a sucker for block inlays.

If this has already been suggested and thrown out, sorry. I didn't wanna wade through 5 pages of comments.

 

[TomB]

I had my revelation last year while working on a musical. During college I went through a hardcore fretless J bass phase because I was still in the honeymoon stage of playing the double bass and loving the freedom of having no frets, so I decided to play strictly fretless bass for that time. And I got good at it, but really wasn't doing a lot of working musician stuff at the time. I did have a P bass just in case, but I probably played it on a one gig during college because I was so enamored with fretless bass for when I had to play electric. So I graduated last year and finally had my feet deep into the life of a working musician. I wasn't getting a lot of calls for gigs, if I was it was for double bass, but I finally got a call to play on a musical. Because those types of gigs are all about supporting the actors and providing super clear intonation I had to use my P bass that was sitting in it's case. Using a P bass, strung with Thomastik-Infeld (best string maker ever) jazz flats, for this gig was a revelation for me. It felt right, sounded right, and everyone else in the ensemble and the actors sounded right. I plugged directly into the house for this gig and when I heard myself through the theater's PA, I knew right away that is now what I want with electric bass. And now I bring and use my P bass to every gig I play electric on. I have an affordable 5 string bass for when I need it but I rarely play it and am now considering selling my fretless J bass because I just don't play it anymore since I became a full time P player. Now I would like to have an oxymoronic fretless P bass, but it's not a necessary instrument. Just give me a double bass, a P bass, and a good amp and I'm solid.

I know you weren’t asking for advice, but hang onto that fretless. Things change.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I like both but for the music I'm playing I prefer the P. But I generally don't like bridge pickups or blending pickups so for me it's really a matter of P vs J neck pickup. Very often I actually like Js better when playing alone but I nearly always prefer a P in the mix. And I like the simplicity of one tone control when playing live. It's almost impossible to mess up the tone with a P-bass.

 

[MtManiac]

This.
Putting tape wound or flats on a jazz is like stepping on the gas and the brakes at the same time. Using rounds with the tone rolled off would be a more suitable use of a jazz.
Their EQ is scooped by design. If you are expecting big punchy mids you won't get them from a jazz.

Lots of guys have used Jazz basses with flats for killer tones that you can't get from a P.

I'm a P guy, but I love a good jazz bass tone - so fat with the neck pickup, and even moreso with flats.

 

[iunno]

You can get a good tone for any kind of music with a P, you just have to like how it sounds to begin with. It's a mid centered tone, and you can't really get them to sound scooped. Personally I love barky, clanky, wooly and thumpy tones, and the P has them in spades. Never heard a Jazz that sounds like one, they don't get closer to it than any other bass with a solo'd neck pickup imo.

Jazzes are nice, but I find the low notes tend to get lost in the mix, especially when it gets busy. You can get quite a range of tones with them though, a Jazz with 60s spacing can get amazing distortion tones. Personally I find most Jazzes uninspiring, but when you find a nice one they're really nice. I prefer Stingrays(or my Thumb) when I want those sort of tones, myself.

 

[TomB]

It can be an odd thing. I'm not based in Nashville, but I have a friend and artist currently based in Nashville who likes me to back him and has wanted me to be based more in Nashville since I'm his first call. At first, I was like, "I'm flattered, but dude, you're in Nashville. Throw a rock in any direction and hit a killer player." He explained that the players really don't cop the modern country vibe. Then the more time I spent watching players on Broadway, I got what he was saying. They're all great players, but they're really not going for the modern vibe in their playing. The artist is looking for someone who can do more of the Mike Brignardello thing, which I can do. Honestly, it's not really my default style of playing - I'm much more staccato and articulate - but I've studied the more legato and dubb-y thing that's all over modern country records; and that seems to work for cats who want their live show to sound like what's currently on the radio.

I'm not a modern country devotee but I'm curious about what you're describing here as the "Mike Brignardello" thing. Would you mind sharing a link? Thx!

 

[murphy]

My p bass and flats says nothing but pure dub

That's it..I'm switching my flats to me P bass

 

[micguy]

Well, of course, but that is not at all what WE discussed!
We talked about what sort of EQ you can or cannot APPLY to each instrument, not if you can make a J sound like a P! Read his post, quoted below:

I did read his post; what I posted is directly addressing one of his comments.