Precision vs Jazz at a gig

[J-Mags]

J Basses sometimes don't fit into a mix as well as P-Basses. But whatever. Sometimes it's more fun to have a bunch of sporty extra tones.

Mainly which bass is gonna sounds best of gonna depend on what the other instruments sound like. If your guitar player is sporting a bunch of dense lower mids, a Jazz might cut through better. If the guitar is a bit scooped, some P-Bass might fill out the sound. A lot of this is really hard to articulate until you actually try a couple of basses in the same setting. You never know how a specific tone is gonna fill out the jigsaw puzzle until you try it.

 

[micguy]

Eh... Ok? You have not owned a Jazz, but you say they cannot be EQ:ed like a Precision?

He may have spoken out of turn, but I won't. I've studied the Physics of string instruments, and although he may not know why, he is...right.

The eq that pickup position imparts is a big factor in why a P sounds like a P, and a J sounds like a J. The eq that pickup position imparts is dependent on which string you're talking about - it's a wavelength filter - where the dips and peaks are frequency wise depends on the wavelength on the string, which depends on how a particular string is tuned.

Anyway, if you take a look at the eq curve of, say the A string on a P and a J, there's a very complicated comb filter for each one. You can (in theory) make a filter that'll make the A string on a P sound like the A string on a J. It's ridiculously complicated (you'd need dsp to do it), but possible.

But...(this is a huge but) the curves for the E, D and G strings are all different. There simply is no way, once you combine the signals for all 4 strings through one pickup, to eq a J to sound like a P, or the other way 'round.

 

[Iristone]

If you are expecting big punchy mids you won't get them from a jazz.

Yes you will. Just turn down either one of the pickups a bit.

 

[TomB]

Those are some pretty old school references. That sort of thuddy tone doesn't really work in today's market.

Joe Osborn thuddy? How much of Joe’s playing have you studied?

 

[FunkHead]

Did a two-set show on Friday evening. I'd been rehearsing with my Jazz (with tapewounds) leading up to the gig, but on a whim decided to bring my Precision (with flats) to the gig also. I decided to play the first set with the P and the second with the J, just to see what the difference was.

The P was superior for the gig. Stood out in the mix really well, with plenty of punch. J got a little lost in the second set. I couldn't hear it as well.

It was an interesting adjustment, too, having rehearsed on the more narrow neck of the J and then playing the gig with the wider neck of the P. Took me a few songs to adjust.

Thinking now my P should be the go-to for full band gigs, and maybe the J for more acoustic sets.

I can appreciate your experience but I have also seen the opposite happen.

I saw a great band where the Bass player started off with a Jazz and was nice and clear. The he swapped for a P-Bass and got muddy.

I believe he needed to tweak the tone knob on the P to make it less muddy. A jazz can be crystal clear but you have to adjust the knobs.

 

[dan1952]

I traded a 73 Precision in 75 for a 73 Jazz, mostly because the Jazz was creme color with a tortoiseshell pick guard, the prettiest thing I'd ever seen. The BL asked me that night (after one set), "Where's your other bass? That thing doesn't have any punch!"
The guy wouldn't trade me back. I did make a mistake last year, though. A 73 Jazz, natural with white guard, and an OLD set of EMG's came into my shop and I bought it. Played and sounded great, but I sold it to a friend. I should have kept that one!

 

[soulstew]

A good P-bass is hard to beat in a mix.

Helt enig! God jul!

 

[Matty Koff]

For each bass I own, I approach volume and EQ differently. I don't know about all passive fender jazz basses but when I had an MIM Jazz the pickups were no where near as hot as my passive P-bass. I could get away with a much higher input gain without clipping using the jazz. Chances are I'd also EQ them differently at the amp. Playing live has it's own factors into where we set volume and EQ levels, as well as recording in a studio environment.

I have 3 basses, all unique to each other, although no longer have a jazz. If I switch one of them.. I also change my EQ and volume settings.. and not to match the sound of another style of bass, but to where it pleases my ears and sits comfortably in the mix. It's never just swapping out cables. If I keep the pre-amp on my Sire P7 switched off it's output levels are pretty close to my P-bass - so I could probably just swap cables in that case, but that's me ignoring the pre-amp on the Sire. I set my EQ's on the amp flat and lower my overall volume if boosting frequencies increases my decibel level too much for everyone's comfort if I'm using the pre-amp on the bass for tone shaping.

As far as music trends in the industry.. trends always started somewhere. Kind of like covers that people love, they were originals first, something nobody had heard before at some point. Your tone should make YOU happy. Most folks aren't going to notice the difference. Just us nitpicking musicians. If you gave me a jazz bass to play and it had a good setup chances are I'd be able to find a comfortable spot in the mix and be happy playing it between adjusting EQ and volume.

Being in a situation where we record everything we do - If I can't hear everything I'm playing it's in someway related to overall volume.. whether I started playing too softly or plugged in a bass with a lower output, or I rolled my tone completely off >.< Or my drummer/soundguy gets me in the ballpark but doesn't know to listen for articulation in the bass so I ask him to bump me another 3 to 6 decibels post recording, taming any excessively loud frequencies as needed with shelves and filters.

 

[LonesomeCraig]

Just like guitars each individual Bass has it's own strengths and tone. I have played a couple Jazz basses that are punchy and really full sounding. For certain gigs that is so perfect for me.
I also like classic mid scooped bright Jazz bass tones, it all depends on the band I am playing with.
But, the P Bass is such an undeniable powerhouse. I really love both of them!

 

[soulstew]

My jazz cuts. Sits in mixes absolutely properly. I use a jazz because in my experience, my jazz gets a very accurate P bass tone, eq'd properly, but my P cannot get a proper jazz sound, no matter the eq. I use rounds. I know lotsa guys who use flats. JPJ and others sound better with rounds. And I will tell them that. But? That's my opinion. Not a fact. If you want the flats tone, cool. But I haven't heard a bass with flats outperform a bass with rounds live, ever. Again, on my jazz with rounds, I can cop a pretty dubby, flats type tone with eq and technique. But, I can not get flats to sound like rounds no matter the technique or eq. So, for me, it's about how many reasonably legit sounds I can get out of one instrument. Jazz. Rounds. For me, it's about versatility. For others, might be different.

I have owned jazzes and p-basses and have never managed to find an eq setting that enables a jazz to cop an accurate p-bass tone. Full neck pickup with lower mid boost will get you in the ballpark, but switch immediately to a p-bass and there's still a world of difference. I'd be interested in knowing what pickups and settings you were using. Correspondingly, I've never been able to make a P sound like a jazz. These days I'm using a Dingwall with 3 FDV pickups, and it nails the P tone with neck in series, does a very convincing 50/50 neck/bridge jazz tone, and a potent Stingray tone with bridge and middle selected. Over the course of a 4 hour gig I use all three tones for multiple numbers. All are great, workable tones. None is optimal for all, though if I had to choose only one, the P-bass would be it. Granted it's not as "versatile" in terms of being able to produce a wide range of tones, but it's incredibly versatile in the sense that its core tone (which can be varied to some degree with EQ, strings and pick vs. finger vs. slap, and playing position) works with the widest variety of styles and genres. But obviously that's just me. Great players have a way of making anything sound geat.

 

[bobyoung53]

2020 - 60=1960
2020-70= 1970.
There is nothing modern about 70s tones.
You don't honestly think that bass toned haven't evolved in 50 years do you?

Styles come and go in clothing and in music, what's new is old and vice versa, nowadays you can use pretty much any tone you want as long as it fits the style of music you're playing. There are a lot of people playing flats nowadays, I'm not one of them at this present time but whatever floats your boat. There is really no "old sound" anymore because the old sound is now current again.

 

[bobyoung53]

I play both but have been leaning toward the Jazz more lately, I modded it a bit, changed the tone cap so it could go real deep, put in a 0.1 uf cap, still get the brilliance if I want but will cut off all the sizzle if I want to. I, like another person in this thread also like dead round wounds on it, I tried flats but it sounded too dead for my taste, with the dead rounds you can really dig in and it still has bottom but cuts through nice with good mids, and don't like new rounds because it's way too trebly although I haven't tried them since I changed the tone cap.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Precision and Jazz basses are both great instruments, but you can’t EQ them the same. For a precision I like the mids at 12 o’clock with the treble at 2 o’clock and the bass at 3 o’clock. I haven’t owned a jazz so I really can’t give advice on that.

+1

A good P-bass tone in the mix should sound slightly boxy when soloed.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

That depends entirely on what your goals are. If you want to actively compete in the music business then it will probably behoove you to make yourself aware of current trends. If you just want to play and /or produce art then who cares? A lot of originality has come from artists who have been ignorant of musical trends. It's only your "job" to know if your job requires you to know.

It can be an odd thing. I'm not based in Nashville, but I have a friend and artist currently based in Nashville who likes me to back him and has wanted me to be based more in Nashville since I'm his first call. At first, I was like, "I'm flattered, but dude, you're in Nashville. Throw a rock in any direction and hit a killer player." He explained that the players really don't cop the modern country vibe. Then the more time I spent watching players on Broadway, I got what he was saying. They're all great players, but they're really not going for the modern vibe in their playing. The artist is looking for someone who can do more of the Mike Brignardello thing, which I can do. Honestly, it's not really my default style of playing - I'm much more staccato and articulate - but I've studied the more legato and dubb-y thing that's all over modern country records; and that seems to work for cats who want their live show to sound like what's currently on the radio.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Did a two-set show on Friday evening. I'd been rehearsing with my Jazz (with tapewounds) leading up to the gig, but on a whim decided to bring my Precision (with flats) to the gig also. I decided to play the first set with the P and the second with the J, just to see what the difference was.

The P was superior for the gig. Stood out in the mix really well, with plenty of punch. J got a little lost in the second set. I couldn't hear it as well.

It was an interesting adjustment, too, having rehearsed on the more narrow neck of the J and then playing the gig with the wider neck of the P. Took me a few songs to adjust.

Thinking now my P should be the go-to for full band gigs, and maybe the J for more acoustic sets.

Put flats on the J. It'll be perfect. Tapes are weak. Almost voiceless. Flats will have much more present and give you that signature Jazz bark and growl.

 

[jamro217]

Aah, the ad infinitum debate...again. Let's settle it once and for all, shall we? By learning how to properly EQ your instrument (which, in this case, includes the bass, pick, any effects, preamps, amps, cabs, et cetera that are between your fingers and the sound going out to the audience) you should be able to produce a pleasant enough tone. By realizing Ps and Js are different beasts, you must EQ them individually to best utilize their signals. The same can be said of any other two basses. A Rick and an EB-O would not react the same to identical settings. <Those two sonically polar opposites require equally opposite settings to achieve a similar tone. It's all about balance. If a particular instrument is bass heavy, muddy and slightly weaker in the treble department (EB-O), turning down the pickup volume, turning the amp bass knob all the way off, diming the treble and flipping on the bright switch may be needed. Doing that on a Rick will make it disappear completely. With a 4001 you have to do just the opposite, crank up the bass a bit, dime the mids, and back off on the treble. Now the two instruments both sound pleasant while retaining their sonic character. By understanding how to operate your tools you become a better craftsman. Hope this helps.

 

[JimmyM]

Ah, now I get why you don't understand.

Someone likes himself a little more than is psychologically healthy, eh?

OK, perhaps you'd like to straighten me out, so here's your chance. What's made bass tone so glaringly different since the 70's? Roundwounds? Done in the 60's. Active setups? 70's. PA style bass amps? 70's. Extra strings? OK, now there you may have a case even though they were also products of the 70's.

 

[Wisebass]

Hi Richard

I decided to play the first set with the P and the second with the J, just to see what the difference was.

P vs J thread? Great idea! We never discussed that!

Santa plays a Jazz Bass!!! (not sure about his strings )


may the bass be with you

Merry Christmas everybody!!!

Wise(b)ass

 

[Jim Carr]

...OK, perhaps you'd like to straighten me out, so here's your chance. What's made bass tone so glaringly different since the 70's? Roundwounds? Done in the 60's. Active setups? 70's. PA style bass amps? 70's. Extra strings? OK, now there you may have a case even though they were also products of the 70's.

Jimmy—the tone of everything has changed. Digital audio (and mp3 compression, etc.) is pretty much omni-present for most listeners, for better or worse. Computer speakers or iPhone earbuds, anyone? Don't get me started on crappy subs.

It's cleaner, or dirtier, or flatter, or more in tune, more quantized (or dithered), or more perfectly executed/edited, or more whatever (except profitable). That is, of course assuming we are not too deaf to notice.

 

[uwrossl]

You ever played a jazz bass with Ti’s?

Pretty much this for J's. I put TI's on my sadowsky after not being able to find a flat or a round that i really liked 100% for it and bam.... The bass came to life.

Those talking about a P getting lost in a mix...you've probably got a bad P Bass then.

I go for the J when I want to sit in the mix and the P when I want to pop. TI's on the J and running Dunlop Flats on the P. Both are