• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Preference For Sealed Cabs? Why?

I was considering a sealed cab with the Eminence CB158 based from this spec sheet.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

any opinions?

I have a buddy who's modeling a sealed cab with those drivers. I personally wouldn't want it based on the models, but it may work perfectly for you. We're not all looking for the same things and I think that's a good thing :)
 
A ported box is like a beer bottle. Blow across the mouth of the beer bottle, and that wuuuuu tone is the Helmholtz resonant frequency. Notice that it doesn't die out instantly when you stop blowing. We could call this "overhang" or "ringing" (though it's a lot lower in pitch than the ringing we associate with a bell).

A ported box uses its Helmnoltz resonance to extend the bass deeper than it otherwise would have gone, but it also tends to resonate (ring, overhang) for a little bit after the cone stops moving (the cone's motion is analogous to blowing across the mouth of the beer bottle). In fact, as the energy decays, the pitch can shift in the direction of that Helmholtz resonance. So not only do we have overhang blurring the tail end of the notes, we can also have the pitch shifting as the note decays!

As far as the cone stopping, the amplifier/speaker interface plays a role there, but note that the cone is never unpowered. The stiffer air spring of a small sealed box doesn't give it better transient response than the weaker air spring of a large sealed box, in fact, the transient response of sealed boxes improves as the box gets larger (air spring gets weaker). But with a ported box, the box itself keeps on singing its one-note song, and that's the culprit.

So what kind of cabs do I build? Ported ones. I'm largely trying to get a lot of sound-per-pound and sound-per-size, and also in general I prefer the top end performance of woofers that are better suited for ported than sealed enclosures, this because of their more powerful magnets. If a ported box is sized and tuned so that it's not relying too heavily on the port's output, then the problems of overhang and pitch shift are reduced. This is especially important for critical applications like studio monitors, which I sometimes do on a custom basis... the engineer has to be able to clearly distinguish between the bass and the kick, for example.

I've had the good fortune of spending some time with a few of Mike Arnopol's manipulated vortex waveguide cabs, and of using the same technology in a different market. In my opinion conceptually they are sort of like a fuzzy-length transmission line, in that they make use of the backwave energy, but they a) go deeper than a comparable-length transmission line does and b) don't have the one-wavelength cancellation dip that we see in measurements of transmission lines. In my opinion, they have low-end extension that is competitive with a ported box but without relying a Helmholtz resonance, so they have very good note definition even at the low end of the scale. I have to concede that this is an area where his cabs outperform my ported cabs, and if I built sealed cabs, his cabs would outperform mine in low-end extension and authority. In fact the best low-end impact and definition I've heard in any of my home audio speakers has come from one that's essentially a copy of his MAS-210. That technology works well with woofers whose motors are too powerful (Qes too low) for an optimum vented box.

I mentioned transmission lines. They have a size and weight and cost penalty, and at the frequency where the line length is equal to one wavelength, the output from the line emerges 180 degrees out-of-phase with the output from the front of the cone. This causes a dip. Dips are less audible than peaks, and often go unnoticed on recorded music, but they can make certain notes die so you don't want them in a bass cab. There are techniques that minimize this dip, but in general the net result is a big cab that won't go as loud as other big cabs. But they can sound really good.

This past weekend I showed a pair of home audio speakers at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in Denver. The hotel rooms we use are notoriously boomy. We used a variety of techniques to deal with that. We tuned our ported boxes to different frequencies, so they would not all Helmholtz in unison. We plugged ports, converting ported boxes to sealed boxes. We even used polarity reversal to get some cancellation going on. But if the venue had been outdoors, we would have unplugged all of the ports and gotten as much low-end assistance from Mr. Helmholtz as we could. Point being, what works best is often room-dependent.

Someone mentioned using my cabs with some of the ports plugged. A vented box tuned much lower than optimum, whose internal volume is smaller than needed for a true EBS (extended bass shelf) tuning, can approach what might be called "sealed box emulation" tuning. That would be a rather benign ported box, as far as overhang goes, but still not as good in that respect as a sealed box or one of Mike's cabs.

Anyway this is a really fun topic and I've enjoyed reading this thread. Thank you Mark for bringing it up because I'm benefitting from learning what bass players like. Maybe one day I'll take a shot at a sealed box 3015LF system.
 
Last edited:
I sometimes wonder if my more technical posts on here leave readers infinitely baffled! Even if that's not the case, are they left in a state of acoustic suspension? ;)

Okay apologies in advance for what is going to be a really obscure joke, but I can't resist:

Paul Klipsh is strolling down the sidewalk and who should he see coming towards him but Henry Kloss, Peter Walker, and Amar Bose.

So Paul cups his hands around his mouth, horn-like you know, and calls out, "Greetings gentlemen! How are you today?"

Well Henry Kloss is infinitely baffled; Peter Walker is ecstatic; and Amar Bose turns around, faces in the opposite direction, and replies, "Just fine, Paul! And how are you?"
 
Sealed cabs will certainly never win the pound-for-pound battle, but I think for a lot of folks (myself included), the tradeoffs are often worth it - just depends on what floats your boat. I've been fortunate to have had the opportunity to play my cabs next to many of the highest performance, cutting-edge stuff out there over the past few years, and I don't feel they are lacking in any regard - in fact, I still prefer them over everything else. My ported "General Sherman" is arguably the most powerful standalone bass cab out there relative to its size, but I still prefer the pair of sealed 15's and the bit of extra size/haul that comes with them. But I'm glad most folks have abandoned sealed designs - better for me should I decide to bring a few to market!! :)
 
Okay apologies in advance for what is going to be a really obscure joke, but I can't resist:

Paul Klipsh is strolling down the sidewalk and who should he see coming towards him but Henry Kloss, Peter Walker, and Amar Bose.

So Paul cups his hands around his mouth, horn-like you know, and calls out, "Greetings gentlemen! How are you today?"

Well Henry Kloss is infinitely baffled; Peter Walker is ecstatic; and Amar Bose turns around, faces in the opposite direction, and replies, "Just fine, Paul! And how are you?"

Very nicely done Duke...
 
Okay apologies in advance for what is going to be a really obscure joke, but I can't resist:

Paul Klipsh is strolling down the sidewalk and who should he see coming towards him but Henry Kloss, Peter Walker, and Amar Bose.

So Paul cups his hands around his mouth, horn-like you know, and calls out, "Greetings gentlemen! How are you today?"

Well Henry Kloss is infinitely baffled; Peter Walker is ecstatic; and Amar Bose turns around, faces in the opposite direction, and replies, "Just fine, Paul! And how are you?"
I love this joke.
 
Running sealed and ported together doesn't work as well as two of the same type. The low frequencies get out of phase a bit. Again, I don't mean to sound like a jerk but, this has all been pounded and Im surprised by some of the people asking the questions because they actually posted in some of those not so old threads. It feels like talkbass is going through a loop every 6 months where people are getting too lazy to do any searches. I even look up old threads that I started when I forget something I want to know. Go to google, type in what you want to know and then type "talkbass" after it and your answers will appear. This is why Billfitzmaurice doesn't help us out anymore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coolhandjjl
I think this thread may be pertinent as it seems that ported cab offerings are on the rise, and fewer sealed. Lots of reasons already mentioned. You need about twice the size/weight of sealed to get similar output of ported, and many people today can't lift or carry as much as they used to.

Sure, there is a tonal difference, and some have mentioned sealed being easier to work with in difficult acoustic environments, but it seems that today, those benefits may be too much of a luxury for most. In reality, how many people today can even afford, lift, and transport a 200 or 300 watt tube head atop a sealed 412 or 810? That class D micro with a ported 112 or 212 looks mighty attractive.
 
You don't need a tube head with a seal cab, but that combination always seems to pop up as the the 'tone to die for'. Sealed cabs do tend to bring out that 'saturated power tube effect' better than a ported cab however. I was just illustrating a point when people wax eloquently of the good old days.

There are fewer young people buying musical instruments these days, and the pool of seasoned guys is getting too old and grizzled to schlep that stuff. So if a company pushing traditional heavy gear has fewer young strong backs to sell to, where are they gonna look for new customers? By re-tooling into lighter gear and selling to the existing pool.

But I apologize for getting off-topic. The post was about the preference for sealed cabs, not why there are ported cabs everywhere.
 
Last edited:
I don't get why you have to use a tube head with a sealed cab? My Kustom kxb500 sounds absolutely stellar with a NV610.

Sealed cabs can be used with any amp. However the much lower damping factor of tube amps effectively increases Qtc (by increasing Qes and therefore Qts), changing the sealed alignment to a 'fuller' bass response profile. This may in part account for the popularity of sealed cabs with tube amps. The same occurs with ported cabs, but the result is much less predictable, because a ported alignment is more complex.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JGR
I never pay attention to stuff like that ;) I plug in, I play, if it works, it works, and if not, I try something else. Never had a problem using tube amps with either ported or sealed cabs. Let's not forget the B-15 is ported. And the new V4B had two new ported cabs designed around it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coolhandjjl
Sealed cabs can be used with any amp. However the much lower damping factor of tube amps effectively increases Qtc (by increasing Qes and therefore Qts), changing the sealed alignment to a 'fuller' bass response profile. This may in part account for the popularity of sealed cabs with tube amps. The same occurs with ported cabs, but the result is much less predictable, because a ported alignment is more complex.

I found running tube heads with ported cabs a hit or miss proposition. Usually, the woofer just got to floppy in the lows, even with one port closed. There is a TB member running a Peavey Classic 400 Tube head with a ported cab and he gets great results.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CL400Peavey
I asked a few pages back but never got a response. My current rig with a ported cab cops a pretty damned good "Tube amp through a sealed cab" tone. But I use a ported 15/6. I also go through a VT Bass Deluxe pedal into a ShuttleMax 9.2 using the variable high pass filter on the LF boost control AND a rack mounted compressor.

Does having some compression help in making a ported cab sound/act more like a sealed cab? If so, to what degree? Because that may very well be the key to using ported cabs when one has a preference for sealed, but prefers the lighter/smaller ported cabs available. I'm not suggesting going overboard with compression, but using it judiciously to accomplish the goal.
 
I found running tube heads with ported cabs a hit or miss proposition. Usually, the woofer just got to floppy in the lows, even with one port closed. There is a TB member running a Peavey Classic 400 Tube head with a ported cab and he gets great results.

Yep.

I some times run a tube head, and all my cabs are ported. I have had other TB members hear my rig, and their response was not, "aw man, that sounds like crap."
 
I never pay attention to stuff like that ;) I plug in, I play, if it works, it works, and if not, I try something else. Never had a problem using tube amps with either ported or sealed cabs. Let's not forget the B-15 is ported. And the new V4B had two new ported cabs designed around it.

There is no need to pay attention to that stuff if you just bother to listen. The B-15 cab was designed for tube amps, so their damping factor was accounted for. This would also be true for other cabs designed for the V4 and SVT. In the HiFi world, speakers designed during the tube era sound over damped (bass shy) when used with solid state amps. Adding a little series resistance (typically about 0.5 ohms) restores the balance. Speakers designed during the transistor era sound under damped (bass shy) when used with tube amps.
 
There is no need to pay attention to that stuff if you just bother to listen. The B-15 cab was designed for tube amps, so their damping factor was accounted for. This would also be true for other cabs designed for the V4 and SVT. In the HiFi world, speakers designed during the tube era sound over damped (bass shy) when used with solid state amps. Adding a little series resistance (typically about 0.5 ohms) restores the balance. Speakers designed during the transistor era sound under damped (bass shy) when used with tube amps.

Or you could just turn the bass knob down when using a cab 'designed' for a solidstate amp with a tube amp and vice versa! ;)