I just picked up the FDeck HPF. It is a great tool, and I have been busy dialing in the right amount of cut. I don't have a compressor, but the FDeck it is a bit of a game changer for me.
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Preference For Sealed Cabs? Why?
- Thread starter dukeorock
- Start date
I just picked up the FDeck HPF. It is a great tool, and I have been busy dialing in the right amount of cut. I don't have a compressor, but the FDeck it is a bit of a game changer for me.
Or you could just turn the bass knob down when using a cab 'designed' for a solidstate amp with a tube amp and vice versa!
Ahhhh....that dreaded Fender/Vox/HiWatt/Marshall tone stack.
Yeah, love mine too - especially for acoustic bass. I mentioned it earlier and someone said it is "not exactly" like the sealed cab effect because the slope of bass reduction is too sharp of a dropoff. However the v3 Fdeck HPF Pre has a "12+12" filter circuit. As noted in the documentation at https://sites.google.com/site/hpftechllc/home/hpf-pre
4. The "12+12" filter curve is two filters in one. The first filter has a fixed corner frequency of 35 Hz, and 12 dB/octave slope. The second filter is adjustable from 35 to 140 Hz, and also has a 12 dB/oct slope. Thus it always has 24 dB/oct slope below 35 Hz. I designed the Series 1 and 2 filter (same circuit in both) for double bass amplification, to tame the infrasonic "thump" produced by the acoustic instrument, which interacts poorly with the low frequency excursion behavior of ported speakers. Interest in a 24 dB/oct filter came from electric bassists who are experimenting with the latest high-performance speakers, to avoid driving the system at frequencies below the port tuning frequency. I designed the "12+12" filter with the same input conditions and "front panel" as Series 2, so that either could be used for double bass.
I am the furthest thing from an expert on sealed cabs, but it sounds to a layman like me that the v3 might provide an effect that's closer to a sealed cab than one might think. Based on the technical description, this is a far more gentle fall off than implied by the earlier poster. In the real world, I know I like it!
A closed sealed SVT style cab with 4 separate 2X10 sealed enclosures was the tightest, punchiest, most well balanced cab
available when I bought both of mine. My cabs were loaded with original CTS AlNiCo's, so I'm kinda spoiled.
I still use one of those cabs all the time.
Today, I would have to try what's out there.
I like tall cabs because they are easier to deal with, since you can tilt them in and out of a vehicle rather than
lifting the full dead weight.
The last time I went bass cab shopping was in the 80's when the Ported, EV/Mesa Road Ready 18" + matching 2X12 flat out ruled
any other configuration.
available when I bought both of mine. My cabs were loaded with original CTS AlNiCo's, so I'm kinda spoiled.
I still use one of those cabs all the time.
Today, I would have to try what's out there.
I like tall cabs because they are easier to deal with, since you can tilt them in and out of a vehicle rather than
lifting the full dead weight.
The last time I went bass cab shopping was in the 80's when the Ported, EV/Mesa Road Ready 18" + matching 2X12 flat out ruled
any other configuration.
That's what I am experiencing. The sealed cab by default has its own acoustic HPF. And Paul Klipsch often used the acoustic crossover technique.
I use an fDeck HPF-3 in my live rig. While it is an extremely useful tool, and does tighten up the response from my 3015LF loaded LDS 15/6, it does not make it sound like a sealed cab. The 12db/oct set around the highest position (140hz) does a decent job, but is still maybe a little too steep and low. To my ears, and I might be WAY off on this, the sealed cab "thing" is somewhere in the ballpark of 6db/oct starting around 180-200hz, and doesn't include the 24db/oct rolloff at 35hz. The latter part of that is probably a moot point.
Yeah, I never bother to listen to what I'm doing.
Seriously, gotta come up with a better rebuttal than that if you expect me to buy into it.
Or you could just turn the bass knob down when using a cab 'designed' for a solidstate amp with a tube amp and vice versa!
For some it's that easy. For those particular about tone, it often isn't. I suspect this is due to the type of boost and cut available not not being able to make a complementary change. Most bass EQ controls cover too wide a range, boosting or cutting well into the mids. With ported cabs, the shift in alignment is made worse by thermal compression - increased resistance of the voice coil shifts driver TS parameters even more. The alignment of a sealed cab is less changed by this.
If someone can get the engineering right on this idea, it might be a decent product. A lot easier to slip a tiny pedal-sized box in the gig bag to get what you want rather than schlep a giant (sealed) cab!
- Mar 8, 2011
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- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
I use an fDeck3 on my upright, but it's as much for impedance matching than anything else.
Suggesting that a sealed response is a matter of turning down lows is a bit of a head scratcher. NV610 owners aren't boasting that they love their cabs because they have less low end! Transient response, punch, note definition... Those are the things many folks notice.
I've played ported cabs exclusively for years and only recently have been goofing around with sealed concepts. Maybe someone can make one sound like the other, but I sure can't. It's not just a matter of low end eq. It's how those lows present themselves in a musical way and how cabs respond differently to eq
Suggesting that a sealed response is a matter of turning down lows is a bit of a head scratcher. NV610 owners aren't boasting that they love their cabs because they have less low end! Transient response, punch, note definition... Those are the things many folks notice.
I've played ported cabs exclusively for years and only recently have been goofing around with sealed concepts. Maybe someone can make one sound like the other, but I sure can't. It's not just a matter of low end eq. It's how those lows present themselves in a musical way and how cabs respond differently to eq
- Jun 29, 2006
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- President, CEO, CFO, CIO, Chief Engineer, Technician, Janitor - Reiner Amplification
There's a lot more to it than just the low end rolloff as has been discussed, and it becomes more apparent if you really crank up. My sealed 15/8's are smaller than many of the ported boxes so they don't have to be huge.
We also need to remember that we're making music, so tone and feel are a big part of the equation - being able to produce more low end isn't necessarily better for folks that don't want/need it, especially if it doesn't sound good or feel right to the person connected to the instrument.
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- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
I do understand the notion that many players physically can't carry those massive, heavy old school rigs, or simply would prefer not to. I wouldn't personally try to build a cab that is over maybe 75lbs tops, and that would be assuming it could best a cab of twice it's weight or more. The sealed cab I built to play around with weighs about 45lbs and I've been running a 1,000 watt (at 8 ohms) power amp for testing with no issues.
Big +1 for this.
The gentler sloped bass rolloff of a sealed cab (relative to a ported cab) is directly related to transient response, punch and note definition. It's a property of the sealed cab type alignment. Not that someone can't make a wildly peaked sealed cab and blow all the benefits.
There is also an issue with the EQ circuits and HPF's built into amps. The TS approach to cab design is basically an electrical filter design theory approach, applied to an electro-mechanical system (drivers and cabs). EQ circuits being basically adjustable filters, impose a filter type signature on the signal. This is likely why some amps have better bass speed, punch and articulation than others (although there are many other reasons for this too).
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
That's an interesting thought! I'm a little nervous about Italian poplar. It is crazy light and nice wood to work with, but it's also super soft. The fact that it can get huge dings so easily is off putting to me, if nothing else. Of course there are a lot of ways to deal with it in other areas like coating materials, I suppose.
Poplar was convenient because of wider board width for deeper cabs.
There are all kinds of woods you can substitute.
No need for Tolex. Use Danish Oil finish and any scuffs can be matched easy.
Here's my oval back solid cherry 2X12.
It weighs 25 pounds unloaded and can easily handle a pair on EVM12L's DIMED!
There are all kinds of woods you can substitute.
No need for Tolex. Use Danish Oil finish and any scuffs can be matched easy.
Here's my oval back solid cherry 2X12.
It weighs 25 pounds unloaded and can easily handle a pair on EVM12L's DIMED!
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You do understand that there is no free lunch? By increasing to 1" you have negated any benifit.
As an example, look at @alexclaber 's cabs. They use something like 3/8" birch and proper bracing. Additionally with the advent of modern adhesives, butt joints are stronger than the panels they are made out of.
Poplar was convenient because of wider board width for deeper cabs.
There are all kinds of woods you can substitute.
No need for Tolex. Use Danish Oil finish and any scuffs can be matched easy.
Here's my oval back solid cherry 2X12.
It weighs 25 pounds unloaded and can easily handle a pair on EVM12L's DIMED!
How does an opened back guitar cab have anything to do with the discussion about sealed bass cabs?
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