Premium price for premium sound?

[40Hz]

Where does the more money than sense logic take us? Do we all have to buy our furniture at IKEA and eat at McDonald's?

Well…if you happen to like McDonalds and like minimalist lightweight furniture…

But again it's really all about what you like. It's not really so much about what's "better" - whatever words like 'better' or 'best' may mean in so personal a context as which bass somebody prefers to play.

Ain't no such thing as "the perfect bass" - unless you add the words "for me" after it.

 

[LadyLoveStingRay5]

Depends on what works for you and what you are after.
I haven't had to pay premium price for premium sound or premium quality .

 

[spade2you]

And the "Premium, aged better wood" is something that i'd be all in favor of, but I very seldom see manufacturers actually spelling out that difference in their product descriptions.
The only manufacturers who seem to make a point of their wood selection process are boutique luthiers, and even then they get pooh-pooh'd by many as being phony and pretentious and just trying to charge more.

I think wood can have certain tonal properties. Other than that, it would seem that a lot of luthiers are charging for a pretty top and/or laminates that are simply a little more time consuming. I typically have been using really light weight ash bodies, mostly due to the light weight. No real upcharge that I'm aware of.

 

[socialleper]

I'll throw my $0.02 into this bucket full of pennies.

First, things have changed a lot over the last decade in regards to the quality of instruments made overseas. For those of us old enough to remember pre-globalization Squier basses, they were pretty shoddy. The MIJ equipment had been good for a long time, but stuff made in Mexico, China, or Southeast Asia simple weren't up to snuff; and old opinions die hard. These days Chinese factories pump out precision devices like smartphones that make the building of a bass look like child's play, so the quality of the stuff you can get in the Squier line is definitely better than it was. They are cookie cutter basses with the simplest (ie cheapest) components possible, in very limited colors, built by people for pennies on the dollar compared to US labor. But they work.
I have found it nearly impossible to do a full on Pepsi/Coke challenge between a Squier, MIM, and MIA P or Jazz bass simply because stores have such lousy inventory and what they do have is usually mistreated. Getting the same fretboard on three basses that don't have dead strings, bowed necks, or tragic setups is a monumental task.

Value is completely subjective. Something is only as valuable as what you think it is. To me American Fenders aren't valuable because the simplest basses on the planet that haven't evolved in 30 years shouldn't cost that much. But then you have to do the math on the labor costs, and you see that it is going to cost you more. I also don't put any value into "vintage" instruments because I believe "mojo" is synonymous with BS. But that's me and my perception. If a player's perception is that a Squier sounds and plays as good as a MIA Fender, then that is all that matters.

With all that in mind, also remember that you can't squeeze blood from a stone. A P bass with always be a P bass no matter what components you use. Features like active electronics, versatile pickup configs, fancier bridges, through body necks, adjustable tuners, etc are going to cost you money. You can't build a bass with all the features a German made Warwick has into a $500 price point. You can't get Sadowsky's or Fodera's preamps in that price range either. If you want a finish or woods that aren't super common, it is going to cost you. If you want that, then they are valuable. If they aren't, don't worry about it.

 

[Antisyzygy]

There is a difference between budget and more expensive instruments. Though that difference is sometimes exaggerated, it's not completely made up.

The difference tends to fall into two categories :

1. Attention to Detail / Quality

More expensive instruments tend to have more attention to detail as well as higher quality control (correlated). It's just common sense. If you're paying someone more for an instrument you're incentivizing them to make it a higher quality instrument. There's more revenue to pay someone or multiple persons to do the job right as well as to use the best materials (however you define that). Though you can shave off costs by having a high quality instrument made overseas where labor is cheaper there is still a point where you have to pay more to get more quality.

Quality also tends to follow the "law of diminishing returns". That is, the more you pay the less you get back relatively. If you pay 500 dollars you might get 80% "quality", for 1000 USD you might get 90%, for 1500 USD you might get 95%. Those numbers are made-up, but I'm doing so to make a point. The more you pay the more you get, but for every price bracket you move upwards you get less in return. Each person's tolerance and/or preference for quality vs. cost is different.

Thankfully this aspect of basses can often be fixed to some extent if you take your bass to a luthier or technician. You can get a setup, some finish clean-up, and a fret job and make a budget instrument nearly as playable as something much more expensive. The question is, is it worth it? That's up to the individual. Some say no, some say yes, but who are we to force our opinion on others? There are lots of valid reasons why someone might feel either way.

For example, maybe someone only had 300 bucks one day and needed a bass. They deal with it's issues until they can save up some extra money. Then they take it to a tech and resolve any issues it had. They broke their bass purchase up into a payment program essentially, which is what they could afford.

2. Features

Short of some part-swaps to a complete rebuild you won't get a Squier to be exactly like a MIA Fender feature-wise. The MIA Fender has posiflex rods, custom shop pickups, lightweight tuners, dual action truss rods, string through bridge, etc. Certainly you can put a new neck on your Squier or something, but then you just put together a parts bass. It isn't the same bass anymore.

Feature differences are the hardest to fix. Yeah, you could drill your Squier for a string through bridge, replace the neck, throw a new bridge/tuners on it, and put some custom shop pickups in it. However you just spent quite a lot of money doing that. In some cases it's better to just go buy a more expensive instrument. You can get more for the money in some cases, as for example, manufacturers can utilize "Economies of scale" to get the same parts for much cheaper than you can get them a la carte.

On the other hand, some people are habitual modders and they might be better served by a cheaper instrument. If you're going to mod your instruments anyway, why pay for a bunch of features you'll just be tossing out later?

 

[Antisyzygy]

There is a difference between budget and more expensive instruments. Though that difference is sometimes exaggerated, it's not completely made up.

The difference tends to fall into two categories :

1. Attention to Detail / Quality

More expensive instruments tend to have more attention to detail as well as higher quality control (correlated). It's just common sense. If you're paying someone more for an instrument you're incentivizing them to make it a higher quality instrument. There's more revenue to pay someone or multiple persons to do the job right as well as to use the best materials (however you define that). Though you can shave off costs by having a high quality instrument made overseas where labor is cheaper there is still a point where you have to pay more to get more quality.

Quality also tends to follow the "law of diminishing returns". That is, the more you pay the less you get back relatively. If you pay 500 dollars you might get 80% "quality", for 1000 USD you might get 90%, for 1500 USD you might get 95%. Those numbers are made-up, but I'm doing so to make a point. The more you pay the more you get, but for every price bracket you move upwards you get less in return. Each person's tolerance and/or preference for quality vs. cost is different.

Thankfully this aspect of basses can often be fixed to some extent if you take your bass to a luthier or technician. You can get a setup, some finish clean-up, and a fret job and make a budget instrument nearly as playable as something much more expensive. The question is, is it worth it? That's up to the individual. Some say no, some say yes, but who are we to force our opinion on others? There are lots of valid reasons why someone might feel either way.

For example, maybe someone only had 300 bucks one day and needed a bass. They deal with it's issues until they can save up some extra money. Then they take it to a tech and resolve any issues it had. They broke their bass purchase up into a payment program essentially, which is what they could afford.

2. Features

Short of some part-swaps to a complete rebuild you won't get a Squier to be exactly like a MIA Fender feature-wise. The MIA Fender has posiflex rods, custom shop pickups, lightweight tuners, dual action truss rods, string through bridge, etc. Certainly you can put a new neck on your Squier or something, but then you just put together a parts bass. It isn't the same bass anymore.

Feature differences are the hardest to fix. Yeah, you could drill your Squier for a string through bridge, replace the neck, throw a new bridge/tuners on it, and put some custom shop pickups in it. However you just spent quite a lot of money doing that. In some cases it's better to just go buy a more expensive instrument. You can get more for the money in some cases, as for example, manufacturers can utilize "Economies of scale" to get the same parts for much cheaper than you can get them a la carte.

On the other hand, some people are habitual modders and they might be better served by a cheaper instrument. If you're going to mod your instruments anyway, why pay for a bunch of features you'll just be tossing out later?

Replying to my own post, CRINGE.

Notice I didn't say anything about "sound".

That is such a subjective quality I don't think it's worth discussing too much when talking about costs. I don't think you can always pay more for a better sound, because that quality of basses can be pretty subjective. To me a EB-0 sounds too muddy, to others it sounds just right.

 

[mc900ftj]

Play what you like. Done.

 

[onlyclave]

so recently, I saw this form that has something to do with squiers being good values, and his premium price is really worth it for premium quality. I replied on the form seeing that in my opinion, Squiers are a better value because they essentially sounded the same as fenders in my opinion. Someone replied to my comment, saying "yes. The sound is essentially the same. It's that darn fender sticker were paying for." Which I kind of sensed it was sarcasm. But seriously guys. Premium price for premium sound? Or do people just seem to have more money than sense these days?

Hey son, I have a good job, no debt and I make a lot of money. I can afford to buy pretty much any bass and amp that I want. Are you going to think that I'm stupid because I take PRIDE OF OWNERSHIP in better stuff than you can afford?

I'm also a better musician, what do you have to say about that?

 

[Fingerpickingood]

My three main basses are a G&L 1505 fretless, a Squier VM Jag, and an Ibanez MiKro. I'm probably about to add an SX fretless fiver. Do with that what you will.

 

[Kevin Isaac Garcia]

I think for the musicians who play live will notice how a pricey instrument will give you a much higher quality sound. I played mim fenders for a while, but when I got my first mia I noticed a huge difference not in my bedroom playing on my amp (almost every bass I had sounded clean and punchy on it) but once I played it live I saw and heard a significant difference.

 

[NickyBass]

For me, it's more about the feel that the tone. I like an instrument that allows me to play with as little effort as possible.
I also happen to like supporting small builders.

 

[DigitalMan]

Well…if you happen to like McDonalds and like minimalist lightweight furniture…

But again it's really all about what you like. It's not really so much about what's "better" - whatever words like 'better' or 'best' may mean in so personal a context as which bass somebody prefers to play.

Ain't no such thing as "the perfect bass" - unless you add the words "for me" after it.

I agree with what you're saying. I'm simply illustrating that there isn't a universal point where we all agree diminishing returns begins, and therefore it's probably not in the best intrest of the forum to question the intelligence of the purchasing decisions of other TB members.

 

[40Hz]

I agree with what you're saying. I'm simply illustrating that there isn't a universal point where we all agree diminishing returns begins, and therefore it's probably not in the best intrest of the forum to question the intelligence of the purchasing decisions of other TB members.

Agree. If we ever got into a serious discussion about the intelligence (or lack therof) of a bunch of bass players, we'd never get out of here.

It's also sad/funny how hard we get with each other around here every so often. (I'm occasionally guilty of that myself despite my best intentions.) You'd think with the amount of abuse the average bass player has to put up with that we (at least) would be more careful about getting like that ourselves when posting on TB.

 

[Cole Louis Allar]

Hey son, I have a good job, no debt and I make a lot of money. I can afford to buy pretty much any bass and amp that I want. Are you going to think that I'm stupid because I take PRIDE OF OWNERSHIP in better stuff than you can afford?

I'm also a better musician, what do you have to say about that?

You probably are a better musician than me. I only play one genre. I'm also just asking if you think the extra price for the MIA fenders is really worth it. If you want to buy expensive bass guitars, go right ahead. I'm just saying i think some people should have better things to spend their money on, like food and clothes.

 

[Antisyzygy]

Hey son, I have a good job, no debt and I make a lot of money. I can afford to buy pretty much any bass and amp that I want. Are you going to think that I'm stupid because I take PRIDE OF OWNERSHIP in better stuff than you can afford?

I'm also a better musician, what do you have to say about that?

You must have a lot of friends if you treat everyone who asks light-hearted questions that way.

 

[Bodeeni]

I play both low end and premium basses. the differences are there although sometimes subtle. I took my cheap parts jazz with the squire neck to the gig on Saturday. It did the trick just fine. Is it as nice as the USA jazz? No, but it plays well, sounds like a jazz and the neck is fairly straight. The hardware is not as good. The neck and frets are not as good. But it did the trick and has a bit of mojo for me. As for the sound, the house amp was pretty bad so it did not make a difference. I like the cheap basses pickups but the wiring and pots could certainly be better. Some of these venues are pretty rough on the gear and if it gets banged or pinched I will not loose the sleep I might for a more expensive ax. I always try to remember, my 59 P-bass was really an affordable, off the shelf , generic bass, too.

 

[onlyclave]

You probably are a better musician than me. I only play one genre. I'm also just asking if you think the extra price for the MIA fenders is really worth it. If you want to buy expensive bass guitars, go right ahead. I'm just saying i think some people should have better things to spend their money on, like food and clothes.

So why do you think you need to come in here and criticize others' income and buying decisions? I can afford it, I can buy it and I can play it. If you're here to get me to validate your $100 SX bass I'm not going to. It's like trying to get me to validate your $2500 car. The K&N sticker doesn't make it any faster.

 

[wintremute]

You probably are a better musician than me. I only play one genre. I'm also just asking if you think the extra price for the MIA fenders is really worth it. If you want to buy expensive bass guitars, go right ahead. I'm just saying i think some people should have better things to spend their money on, like food and clothes.

That's not what you're saying. Your initial post was very much asking if it's a waste of money to purchase more expensive instruments when budget instruments are just as good (from your point of view).

Now you say "I'm just saying i think some people should have better things to spend their money on, like food and clothes." - well, that applies then to pretty much ANY priced instrument (budget or premium). If the responsible thing to do is buy food and clothes, then don't buy a bass until you have those responsibilities covered...which has NOTHING to do with your original post.

 

[Cole Louis Allar]

That's not what you're saying. Your initial post was very much asking if it's a waste of money to purchase more expensive instruments when budget instruments are just as good (from your point of view).

Now you say "I'm just saying i think some people should have better things to spend their money on, like food and clothes." - well, that applies then to pretty much ANY priced instrument (budget or premium). If the responsible thing to do is buy food and clothes, then don't buy a bass until you have those responsibilities covered...which has NOTHING to do with your original post.

I disagree. What I'm saying is that if some people have other responsibilities to cater too, then maybe if they want a bass, then maybe find one that's both cheap and good sounding. I'm trying to ask people why they prefer to Break the bank with expensive instruments when they can get something just as good for less. It helps people save money for the more important things in life. So my question is not only "is it worth the cash", I am also asking "is the audience going to notice it if you have an expensive rig" and why do some people prefer to pay more for something when there is something that is almost as good if not just as good for less. Go ahead. Call me ********. I mean I do have aspergers so that might be why so many people think I'm so stupid. But that's honestly just what I'm thinking right now

 

[I am Soma]

i have played both mia and mim fender basses. i guarantee no one could hear the difference unless they had ears and it was recorded digitally as opposed to analog. the necks are not the same but use the same wood and dimensions - essentially making them identical minus the fact one was made by people with different names. the tuners are used for tuning which shouldn't be lost on anyone as you need to be in tune to play tunes. if you use the cheap tuners you cant honestly expect to be as in tune as an expensive set of tuners- although you may sound better. pickups can be tricky due to cheaper pups having more wires that usually don't even connect to anything. more expensive pups often have less wires that actually connect to things but can tend to lose some low end due to less wires = less weight = less tone. body wood can be a major factor as it branches into the bark of the tone - which can leaf people confused, but it does matter if you get down to the root notes.

just for fun i recently blindfolded your mom. after a few hours i went home and did an a/b recording using both a mia musicman and a german made warwick. i then played them both back and i was totally able to tell which bass was used on what recordings. to be totally honest i saved each file with a code name as to not skew the blind test...at some point i forgot the code names but still totally believe i could tell. one sounded more hot and humid (mim) and the other sounded like surfing (mia).

the bottom line is that it is impossible to be happy in life without caring about what others are playing - and the fact of the matter is that we should all take into account that everyone should be happy about the gear we own. you should only boil the mia fender strings though as it can have an adverse affect on ad/dc of the passive pups.