here is a thought.... back in the old days when women started wearing pants it was taboo... whats the different with men wear dresses... no difference really
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Princess Boy
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
I think the question should be: Who started this with him?
I seriously doubt if he said at 3,4 or 5 yrs old, "I think I want to wear dresses like girls do."
Sounds like Mommy may have some issues? I dunno, of course, but have some suspicions as I have seen this before with the wife of one of my soldiers. And it was not honest.
I seriously doubt if he said at 3,4 or 5 yrs old, "I think I want to wear dresses like girls do."
Sounds like Mommy may have some issues? I dunno, of course, but have some suspicions as I have seen this before with the wife of one of my soldiers. And it was not honest.
I don't know if you have kids, but my son (will be 2 in a couple of weeks) likes to copy his sister, and that includes wearing clothes that look like her.
One of my sisters is 4 years older than me, and when we were little, she used me as her doll.
In my experience, both of those things are pretty common.No nefarious plot was involved.
+1, my Sis used to make me up and I played with her dolls too. If anything it reinforced my hetereosexuality because Barbie was one of the first female figures that made me appreciate secondary sex characteristics like big breasts!
The bottom line is that kids will all ultimately express what they no matter one way or the other.
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
i don't agree at all.
"Traditional gender roles" are at best only flexibly defined, by society - my wife has been the primary bread winner in my family for much of the time we've been married, does that make me a girl, or any less of a man?
(actually just makes me really lucky, she's an epic earner )besides, there's nothing inherently "female" about pink skirts, just as there's nothing inherently "male" about blue pants. originally the gender-assigned colors were reversed, with pink going to boys and blue going to girls, and it was only around ww2 that they changed to what they are today.
many male children throughout history and around the world have worn clothes we would identify as "little girl clothes" without detriment to themselves or society at large.
shoot, many areas of the world, like africa, it is the social norm for some groups of men to wear makeup to attract a wife (as i'm sure you know already).
it's one thing if the kid doesn't want to wear those clothes, and is being forced to. but if the kid naturally wants them, then the mother would be being abusive, imo, if she didn't let him wear them.
and i certainly don't see what it is about dresses that are going to impair this kid's ability to function in society.
hopefully by the time this kid has to enter into the work place (assuming it's in the u.s.) the ridiculous and irrelevant clothing rituals that pervade professional society will have been pitched. shoot, i think going to work in a kilt would be cool.
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
ime, education has nothing to do with bigotry. i know quite a few "educated" individuals who would most certainly have a very big problem with their children being "different" in -any- way, not just in their gender prefs.
i can't imagine an educated person having a problem with what a 5 year old of either gender decided to wear, as long as it was not physically unhealthy (i.e. no coat in the cold type stuff). that's based on my own experience with my 3.5 year old daughter. granted, she's a girl and it is now socially acceptable for her to engage in activities traditionally defined as "boy stuff" without it casting aspersions on her future gender identity or capabilities of fulfilling her "societally-dictated gender role"
unfortunately, society still has some growing up to do when it comes to boys.
i don't agree at all.
"Traditional gender roles" are at best only flexibly defined, by society - my wife has been the primary bread winner in my family for much of the time we've been married, does that make me a girl, or any less of a man?
besides, there's nothing inherently "female" about pink skirts, just as there's nothing inherently "male" about blue pants. originally the gender-assigned colors were reversed, with pink going to boys and blue going to girls, and it was only around ww2 that they changed to what they are today.
many male children throughout history and around the world have worn clothes we would identify as "little girl clothes" without detriment to themselves or society at large.
shoot, many areas of the world, like africa, it is the social norm for some groups of men to wear makeup to attract a wife (as i'm sure you know already).
it's one thing if the kid doesn't want to wear those clothes, and is being forced to. but if the kid naturally wants them, then the mother would be being abusive, imo, if she didn't let him wear them.
and i certainly don't see what it is about dresses that are going to impair this kid's ability to function in society.
hopefully by the time this kid has to enter into the work place (assuming it's in the u.s.) the ridiculous and irrelevant clothing rituals that pervade professional society will have been pitched. shoot, i think going to work in a kilt would be cool.
As someone who has worked in Africa, I can say it is a huge and diverse place. The men you showed, (Wadabe? and also the Massai, happen to be two groups were young men wear make up.) In those societies, that sort of dress is just as macho as a kid wearing a baseball cap and a leather jacket in the States. That kind of make up is not ubiquitous in all cultures either.
ime, education has nothing to do with bigotry. i know quite a few "educated" individuals who would most certainly have a very big problem with their children being "different" in -any- way, not just in their gender prefs.
i can't imagine an educated person having a problem with what a 5 year old of either gender decided to wear, as long as it was not physically unhealthy (i.e. no coat in the cold type stuff). that's based on my own experience with my 3.5 year old daughter. granted, she's a girl and it is now socially acceptable for her to engage in activities traditionally defined as "boy stuff" without it casting aspersions on her future gender identity or capabilities of fulfilling her "societally-dictated gender role"
unfortunately, society still has some growing up to do when it comes to boys.
Like it or not, one big lesson that children must learn is that everybody does not love them like Mom and Dad. SM Perry made the point that he would support his kid dressing in a "feminine" way, but that he would make it clear that such dress will result in some judgements or comments.
I know I will not there for every step my child takes, so I think I better give them some notion of what problems might come up, and how to deal with them. Learning to modify clothing choices to avoid conflict is and increase ease in social interaction is simply practical, IMO.
As adults, we all do things that we probably would rather not do because we know that to be totally our own person would sometimes result in more friction that we want to handle at a given time.
One more thing to think about, what about a four year girl who wants to dress like Lady Gaga? I know I wouldn't be down for that except for Halloween or strictly in the house.
A more common issue is when a girl reaches puberty and she decides to wear shirts with her breasts almost hanging out, or super short shorts, or pants that are way too tight. She has every right to express herself, and no one should judge her or accost her because of what she wears, but do you really want your well endowed 15 year old walking around all of the time looking like an extra for a rap video?
Maybe I am just an old prude, but I think all of these issues are related.
A more common issue is when a girl reaches puberty and she decides to wear shirts with her breasts almost hanging out, or super short shorts, or pants that are way too tight. She has every right to express herself, and no one should judge her or accost her because of what she wears, but do you really want your well endowed 15 year old walking around all of the time looking like an extra for a rap video?
Maybe I am just an old prude, but I think all of these issues are related.
But that fact remains that you're an old prude that used to wear a dress and make-up.
But that fact remains that you're an old prude that used to wear a dress and make-up.
I'm glad you're getting a nice, inclusive, non-homophobic, laugh out of my personal history.
Your e-mails could be held up as examples of non-discriminatory banter for someone's Human Relations department.
I'm glad you're getting a nice, inclusive, non-homophobic, laugh out of my personal history.
Your e-mails could be held up as examples of non-discriminatory banter for someone's Human Relations department.
What emails are you talking about? Sorry, but just picturing you getting dressed up by your sister is still just cracking me up.
I had a sister too. But she was younger. Nothing like that happened in my childhood with her. But there was one incident, however. My mom had a friend with a daughter my age, who lived in England. Her friend's daughter was about my height and size at the time. I think I was 8 or 9. So my mom made me wear a dress that she wanted to send to her friend's daughter to see if it would fit her. My sister still brings that up when she wants to get back at me.
Several posts in this thread indicate that this could be the only reason a parent would discourage this behavior. I was suggesting the motives of those who think that discouraging or redirecting the activity is wrong and, amazingly, abusive may not be altogether altruistic.
A parent can recognize a child's affinities and proclivities and direct them into positive or negative behaviors. The fact that the mother based her initial decision on the reasoning of what appears to be a seven year old brings her judgment into question. That her five year old son is now on TV and the internet in a dress as part of his everyday play while she and her publisher promote their book makes me question her judgment and motives.
Societal norms are not always bad.
Young people do not always make great decisions and see future consequences.
Love and approval are not always the same thing.
I agree - I'm not sure that anyone's motives are entirely altruistic, on any side of any issue.
MakiSupaStar said:What emails are you talking about? Sorry, but just picturing you getting dressed up by your sister is still just cracking me up.
I had a sister too. But she was younger. Nothing like that happened in my childhood with her. But there was one incident, however. My mom had a friend with a daughter my age, who lived in England. Her friend's daughter was about my height and size at the time. I think I was 8 or 9. So my mom made me wear a dress that she wanted to send to her friend's daughter to see if it would fit her. My sister still brings that up when she wants to get back at me.
I meant posts, not e-mails. Sorry.
