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Princess Boy

Buchananbass, you seem to immediately be assuming that, for this child, it is a gender identification issue and approaching it entirely as such. While I accept thats a possibility, I don't believe for a second that its the most probable thing going on here. I don't think I'd be wrong in saying that a lot of your presumtion about the issue at hand is down to your own personal experiences (which I think you deserve respect for coming through and still seeming very much like a well rounded person).

We can follow the whole PC brigade line of, "if people don't accept the child for what he is, they're in the wrong" as true, of course, but the reality of the matter is that at 5 years old, a child isn't as necessarily capable of dealing with the potential effects of a decision of such magnitude. What if the child just finds dresses more comfortable at the minute, with no gender identity issues? Then the child grows out of it a year or two into school? That child will probably spend the rest of his schooling years dealing with the ramifications of that choice. Do you really think children of five years old should be making choices that could have effects that last their entire life? What if the child wants facial tattoos as a way of expressing himself?

Now I think a much more sensible solution is if the child is allowed to express himself under controlled circumstances. The child has, until he is mature enough to understand the magnitude of his decision, certain limitations placed on where he dressed like a girl (much like any other child will be told they can't wear their superman costume to a funeral). I don't think the parents would be repressing the child in any way, they're providing him with a controlled environment in which the child can really discover who he is without risking the potentially life-changing effects of doing it elsewhere. If the parents provide all their support for a child during this, while keeping the long-term effects to an absolute minimum, I don't see how there could be a problem.


One of my cousins has just had gender reassignment surgery after many years as cross dresser. She (now, born a male), started to feel like she was a girl around the 10-11 years old age. At this age, her (very supportive) parents provided her with a situation like the one I said above. She was given all the time and support to find herself, without taking any of the bullying and flak that goes with exposing how she felt to the general public. She still occasionally has trouble with people, but she is much more emotionally capable of dealing with it now than when she was a child. From speaking with her about it, she most definitely doesn't harbour any resentment for her parents not letting her go to school like that at her very first whim, but rather, she's grateful for the support and how easy they made it for her to find herself.
 
I completely agree with folks who don't like that the parent brought this to the media and is parading her kid around.

But, if my son wants to wear dresses at 5, I will not have a problem with it. I don't think it's necessary to force a kid to conform to gender rules at an early age and then have the freedom to break them "later."

I wouldn't actively encourage it, because of the grief. I'd want to explain to my son how other people might ask if he's a girl, say that only girls should wear that clothing, or call him names...but if he wants to, I'll have his back. I want my kids to be good people who are secure enough to be themselves, and confident that I'll always love them. Then, I can hope that they'll talk to me about other things, and not follow the crowd when it's not doing the right thing.

Societal gender customs are obvious at an early age; if my kids want to break them and they're not doing anything harmful...well, the world better get out of our way. :)

+1
This is the best post Ive read thus far.
 
Buchananbass, you seem to immediately be assuming that, for this child, it is a gender identification issue and approaching it entirely as such. While I accept thats a possibility, I don't believe for a second that its the most probable thing going on here. I don't think I'd be wrong in saying that a lot of your presumtion about the issue at hand is down to your own personal experiences (which I think you deserve respect for coming through and still seeming very much like a well rounded person).

We can follow the whole PC brigade line of, "if people don't accept the child for what he is, they're in the wrong" as true, of course, but the reality of the matter is that at 5 years old, a child isn't as necessarily capable of dealing with the potential effects of a decision of such magnitude. What if the child just finds dresses more comfortable at the minute, with no gender identity issues? Then the child grows out of it a year or two into school? That child will probably spend the rest of his schooling years dealing with the ramifications of that choice. Do you really think children of five years old should be making choices that could have effects that last their entire life? What if the child wants facial tattoos as a way of expressing himself?

Now I think a much more sensible solution is if the child is allowed to express himself under controlled circumstances. The child has, until he is mature enough to understand the magnitude of his decision, certain limitations placed on where he dressed like a girl (much like any other child will be told they can't wear their superman costume to a funeral). I don't think the parents would be repressing the child in any way, they're providing him with a controlled environment in which the child can really discover who he is without risking the potentially life-changing effects of doing it elsewhere. If the parents provide all their support for a child during this, while keeping the long-term effects to an absolute minimum, I don't see how there could be a problem.


One of my cousins has just had gender reassignment surgery after many years as cross dresser. She (now, born a male), started to feel like she was a girl around the 10-11 years old age. At this age, her (very supportive) parents provided her with a situation like the one I said above. She was given all the time and support to find herself, without taking any of the bullying and flak that goes with exposing how she felt to the general public. She still occasionally has trouble with people, but she is much more emotionally capable of dealing with it now than when she was a child. From speaking with her about it, she most definitely doesn't harbour any resentment for her parents not letting her go to school like that at her very first whim, but rather, she's grateful for the support and how easy they made it for her to find herself.

First of all,
if it seems to be the case that I am ruling out all other possibilities other then a gender issue with this child.
I would suggest you maybe go back an re-read my posts in this thread.

Second why beat a dead horse?
All of which you have stated here with the exception of your story about your cousin has already been said here.
You could have maybe saved some time by just finding a post you liked, adding your story and saying that you agreed.

And last but not least, if you where to have read through this thread you may have stumbled across some of the posts stating in so many words that in many sectors of our society it is ok for a kid to cross dress in school and they often don’t get bullied.
 
Seriously, people have a problem with this?? My son sometimes likes to wear hand-me-downs from his big sister - girl's flip-flops (pink with flowers), "girl"-coloured shirts (pink, yellow), etc. I've never made a big deal out of this with him, and neither has anyone else.

Girls do this *all the time* with "boy's" clothing, and nobody thinks twice about it. There was a time in N. America when most women didn't wear jeans, for example (and of course, in other times and places, lower-body garments with legs were appropriate *only* for women).


Also, please remember one of the cardinal rules of parenting: the best way to get a kid to do something you don't like is to insist that they don't do it.
I remember girls beating up tomboys in elementary school, so I think you don't know what you're talking about. Also, since when is yellow a girl color?
 
First of all,
if it seems to be the case that I am ruling out all other possibilities other then a gender issue with this child.
I would suggest you maybe go back an re-read my posts in this thread.

Second why beat a dead horse?
All of which you have stated here with the exception of your story about your cousin has already been said here.
You could have maybe saved some time by just finding a post you liked, adding your story and saying that you agreed.

And last but not least, if you where to have read through this thread you may have stumbled across some of the posts stating in so many words that in many sectors of our society it is ok for a kid to cross dress in school and they often don’t get bullied.

This isn't true. At all.
 
First of all,
if it seems to be the case that I am ruling out all other possibilities other then a gender issue with this child.
I would suggest you maybe go back an re-read my posts in this thread.
In your first post, you mention, the "possibility" of a gender identity crisis, from then on, your posts are consistently dealing with the, what I consider quite remote possibility, of gender identity. Why has most of the thread focussed on something that is quite improbable?

Second why beat a dead horse?
All of which you have stated here with the exception of your story about your cousin has already been said here.
You could have maybe saved some time by just finding a post you liked, adding your story and saying that you agreed.
Because I felt like stating my opinion on the matter, which, surely is the purpose of a public forum. By your logic, there should be three posts. Yes, I agree, No, I don't agree and I'm not sure, followed by other people finding those three posts, because, after all, those are the only three positions available.

And last but not least, if you where to have read through this thread you may have stumbled across some of the posts stating in so many words that in many sectors of our society it is ok for a kid to cross dress in school and they often don’t get bullied.

Many sectors? I doubt it. Some sectors? Sure. What are the chances of that kid going through his entire childhood and teenage years without some degree of bullying? I'd be willing to bet its slim. I'd go so far as to say most children in that situation would be severely bullied. As has also been repeatedly stated, children like to seize on anything remotely different about someone else, the more different, the bigger a target for bullying the child becomes. Maybe if you had read through the thread, you would've stumbled across some of those posts?

How about you drop the attitude and discuss the topic with a little bit of respect? My post was in no way disrespectful. The fact that I don't agree with you is no reason for you to come back at it with a pissy attitude.
 
We as a culture decide. Seriously, I think a parent should give child the skills needed to thrive. Letting him wear dresses everywhere is setting him up for hardship. Once again, if he comes to that position as an adolescent or an adult, at least he will know what he is getting into.

What skills? Putting on pants? It isn't hard to learn.

People are remarkably perceptive of appearances. When I was a kid, and well into adulthood, I wore almost nothing but blue jeans, flannel shirts, and sneakers or work boots. When I needed to dress appropriately to play in a classical concert, or for a job interview, I figured it out in well under ten seconds.

If the kid gets teased, he will figure it out, and will have to deal with it accordingly. I dealt with being a nerd. At least, he can hide his preference whenever he wants, though it's sad that he might have to.
 
Somehow, I think buchanonbass might a better view and this area :smug:

I'm not sure thats entirely true. Even if Buchananbass's experiences were as such, I'd put money on I have a better idea how someone would be treated in that scenario in Ireland, much like someone who went to school in a different locale to buchananbass will probably have a better idea about how it would be accepted or tolerated in that area.
 
I'm not sure thats entirely true. Even if Buchananbass's experiences were as such, I'd put money on I have a better idea how someone would be treated in that scenario in Ireland, much like someone who went to school in a different locale to buchananbass will probably have a better idea about how it would be accepted or tolerated in that area.

I don't think any of us in the States can claim that we know how things are in any other area of the world without having been there. I'm assuming that Buchananbass was referring to the US.
 
I wouldn't think so. I'm in school, she, well she is not. How could she possibly have a better view?

Firstly, being a student does not automatically make someone the absolute authority on all things school related. Most things? Maybe. Secondly, have you had any personal interest in the subject of cross-dressing and how people react to in in a school environment? K-12? Vocational? Undergrad? Graduate? I'm just saying that there are lots of variables that I think Buchananbass would be more observant of. Not trying to be combative or anything just brining up a few points.
 
Firstly, being a student does not automatically make someone the absolute authority on all things school related. Most things? Maybe. Secondly, have you had any personal interest in the subject of cross-dressing and how people react to in in a school environment? K-12? Vocational? Undergrad? Graduate? I'm just saying that there are lots of variables that I think Buchananbass would be more observant of. Not trying to be combative or anything just brining up a few points.

The case she was referring to, and practically the biggest point of the argument is that when this kid gets into middle school or even grade school he will be throughly beaten and berated. I witness this stuff on a daily basis, and for things people have much less strong convictions for. Buchananbass is 26 years old, meaning it has been 12 years since she was in middle school, I'm sure back then kids were put through the same treatment, she expects a change and that is the problem.

I also don't want to be combative just presenting my side and experiences, and for the record if the kid were at my school you best believe I'm not gonna let him get beat up, but to say in many places this kid will be accepted and fine is outrageous.
 
but to say in many places this kid will be accepted and fine is outrageous.


I agree with this. Its more wishful thinking on behalf of those insisting on being too politically correct to admit that it could cause an issue than it is even close to reality.

That kid will have his ass kicked repeatedly. I don't agree with it. I've got transgender friends, and I sure as hell don't think they should be persecuted for how they feel.....the unfortunate reality of it is that they often are. I doubt things are any different on the other side of the pond, in fact, the worst my cousin Michelle ever got was when she travelled to the states.
 

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