Project Sting-Jay

[earlysecond]

I had threatened to start a build thread for my first scratch built body, store bought neck project. I had to take a little break from working on it the last several weeks but am back in action. I am waiting for the first coat of 2K Poly to dry so between coats, I can catch up on the build. Because I would not likely build something that you could go to the store and buy, I tried to come up with something that you can't buy off the shelf. For the most part, I liked the looks and styling of the Music Man Sting Ray BUT, I wanted a bit more flexibility on pups and tone control. I decided to combine some different pickups and came up with the name Sting-Jay (instead of StingRay as my bass has a J pickup as well. Here is what I set out to do:

• 4 string bass
• Poplar body with veneer top
• Super J 55 neck Pickup
• Music Man dual coil bridge Pickup
• Passive pickups
• Recessed/Hidden controls 2 Volume 1 tone
• NO controls on the top surface of the bass
• Maple neck with customized and veneered headstock 3X1 config ala Music Man
• LED lit position markers top and side of fretboard

Before I could pull off my first scratch build, I needed tools and a workspace. In a single weekend, I cleaned, re-organized and wired outlets and lights into a 12X14ft corner of my basement. I added a drill press, Rigid spindle/belt sander, and set up some tools that I borrowed. I have, on loan a joiner, thickness planer and a decent router. I am saving money to buy a band saw! I can see how invaluable that tool is.

I began with a decent piece of poplar. I chose it because it is easy to work, easy on tools and inexpensive. I planned to veneer the top in any event so it did not matter. I went to a local cabinet shop and for the mere sum of $15, walked out with enough board feet to make a bass body.

I worked for a long time to create a body design that was to my liking and accomplished the goal of hiding all of the controls a recessed edge. The body design is a bit radical and I asked what people thought. I got great advice and coaching from Hopkins on controls and ended up with some thumbwheel pots.

I will say that I never begin a project unless I can afford and am totally willing to scrap it at any point. So in this case I wanted no more than $50 in raw wood materials. I lucked out and found an unfinished neck for $28 shipped!

When I got it, it looked like this:

I reshaped the headstock to accommodate my 3X1 plan and came up with this:

Here is another detailed shot of the sculpting:

The body seemed to take me FOREVER to complete. In the process I had to teach myself how to run a router, created templates and shape a body out of a slab of glued pieces.

I don't have any pictures available of that process.

The single item which has taken the most time is my desire for complicating the control panel. Ultimately, I had to resort to some metal fab skills, including welding to pull off the mounting of the thumbwheels. I am still not entirely satisfied with the control face as I did a poor job cutting in the thumbwheel slots but I will share that later when I assemble the guitar.

Additionally, I will save my pictures of my LED fret board, which is switchable, for my final build pics.

In the meantime. I was able to final sand and get color and clear on today. I spray all of what I apply and my very first coats are boring! The creative magic and fun comes in the flexibility of auto paint for various effects in the mid coats before the clear.

So I started with some red dye in denatured alcohol on my sepella (so) striped top. I had several areas of heavy sculpting on the body and decided to mask them and let them finish the light color of the poplar body. First steps today came out like this:

With the masking peeled the dye "leaks" under the tape cleaned up and 1 coat of clear, it looks like this right now:

Hopefully more to come very soon. After I apply 3 coats of clear. I allow the body and neck to cure for 12 hours then I level sand the clear and begin the fun of spicing up the effects. For this finish job, I will have at my disposal. Black tint, white ghost pear, red ghost pearl and red metal flake. I am honestly not yet sure exactly what I will try to do AND it never comes out exactly as I have planned! haha

Stay tuned!
Brent

 

[ksihawk7]

That headstock is beautiful, man. Real stylized, I like it!

 

[earlysecond]

That headstock is beautiful, man. Real stylized, I like it!

Thanks! I just started out to make something a bit different. I always loved Ovation Acoustic headstocks. . . .I borrowed some inspiration.

Brent

 

[earlysecond]

I'll try to give some idea what I am have come to do with my controls. I bought 3 thumbwheel 500K pots which mount on a metal tray and slide into the recessed edge of the bottom of the bass. I tried a coupe of approaches but then decided that I would need some kind of metal mounting tray due to the difficulty of positioning mounting and wiring the controls.

This is an edge on shot of what is the bottom, recessed edge of the bass output jack goes to the right in that round hole.

This is the bottom back of the guitar where the control cavity lies. This is where the completed, wired tray gets mounted

Here is the visible part of the tray. I am NOT happy with the slots for the thumbwheels and may reshape it with some autobody filler.

Looking down on the control tray, you can see the holes for the mounting tabs of the pots. I plan to solder them to the metal.

I spent days getting to this point with the controls and am not totally thrilled. If I had it to do over, I would likely allow more room. I messed up when I scalloped the top edge of this recess. It does not leave a large amount of wood to attach the tray. BUT, this is my first try so that is how I learn.

Thanks for looking,
Brent

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Nice body and headstock carving job. The red shimmery figure looks great. Cool idea on the controls too.

 

[earlysecond]

Thanks. I might get some more finishing time in tonight. Its my first attempt but i am cautiously optomistic. Thsnks for looking.

 

[earlysecond]

Well, the Sting-Jay is moving along nicely. I may get some pics tonight. The body and neck are finished and the neck is bolted on. LED, battery and switch mounted and secured under cover. Bridge mounted. I threw some strings on in to make sure that everything was decent. The electronics remain the last stand and I will consider it complete!

I had a couple of malfunctions and an "injury" (not serious) last night

I mounted my nut Sunday night with a heavy solid glue product called E6000 my headstock is small, busy, crowded . . . .maybe a bit less than ideal but it is compact, out of the way and nicely balanced! BUT my nut was pulling sideways! I've glued a couple of nuts with this product and it worked well. This headstock is likely not well designed. I need to add a string button retainer on this crowded piece yet I think that will give more down force to the strings and the nut. I will find out later.

With my controls mounted where they are, when I mounted my bridge 2 of 4 of the screws went through the top and right into the control cavity. I will either have to go with machine screws for these with nuts on the inside of the control cavity or come up with another solution. I NEVER thought that through!

Almost surprisingly, and pleasantly so. With everything in but the controls and a quick set up. . .this bass is VERY well balanced when sitting. I love the action and it is going to sound much different from other basses I own. For a couple of reasons.

I will snap some pics if I get any more time on it tonight.

Oh yeah, the "injury". Gotta tell you I don't like working with CA glue. I'm a big guy at 6'8", naturally clumsy etc. I have some stainless steel 12 gauge wire hanging from the "ceiling" actually rafters in my shop. I hang stuff there when paint is curing or to get it off the bench. I had used a piece of this wire to open a tube of super glue by poking the wire through the top of the tube. Probably a half hour later the wire goes in behind my glasses when I walk to the corner of the shop. I feel and odd sensation as I jerk my head away from the hanging wire and am scared that the pointy end of the wire has penetrated my eyeball. . . .but wait, I can see. I cannot fully open my eye though. I take off my glasses to rub my eye and my hand sticks to my eye lid. . . .holy crap that super glue on that wire stayed wet for all that time and glued my eye open. I went to my GF (actually my ex wife . . . but that is another LONG story, yeah its complicated) and she peeled a couple layers of glue AND skin off my eyelid and around my eye. Just another careless mistake!

Thanks for checking in,

Brent

 

[Jisch]

That CA is crazy stuff (as the name implies), glad you're ok.

I am interested in seeing the transition between the dyed and non-dyed areas in more detail - I'm thinking of doing something similar on a bass I'm making but I'll be sanding through the top wood to expose the wood underneath. I'm just curious what the transition looks like on yours - it's kind of hard to see in the pictures you posted so far - is it a hard break or is it rounded off?

 

[earlysecond]

Great question! I really struggled with that issue. I could not get an acceptable line with the thin dyes. They crept under my masking efforts. In the transition between the dark dye and the raw look wood I had a mess originally. I was not happy with it. So after my first round of clear (which is really a sealer coat for me), I level sanded the clear and broke out my 1/4 inch wide fine line vinyl masking tape I use to do automotive stripes. I first laid a tape line right on this transition, right down the middle of the contrast area. Then standard procedure in striping is to take the exact same tape and put 1 piece on each side of the first run and then peel the first run off creating an area that will get paint, 1/4 inch wide right on top of the transition between the dark dye and the natural finished scallop. I hope you follow me? It is rather simple to do but hard to explain. This came out very nicely and essentially covered my mistake.

If you are going to do something similar, I recommend the fine line finish tape from the get go. While you could get away with a quality, paper masking tape, the vinyl fine line is much better. It is also much easier to work on curves. I would think if you want a clean line you could tape it well, ensure that it is well sealed at every point, dye the guitar body slowly by spraying light coats which will not seep under the tape then sand or scrape any imperfect areas. I am happy with my black transition line. It also has a good bit of red crystal ghost pearl on it so it is not an obnoxious contrast. It came out to my liking. I'll get some pics tonight or tomorrow!

Jisch-your situation may be different. Are you working with dyes? I topped the poplar body with a .10 paper backed mahogany veneer. I found a nice process for applying the veneer which is nearly fool proof with NO bubbles or bulges! I beveled the transition between the veneer and the poplar with a file then some 180 grit sand paper and a block. If you have a thicker top, you will make a very natural transition. Right? If I were going to dye the top wood, I think I would leave a bit to sand off on the transition. I just need some more practice with creating clean dye lines. Could you practice you methods on a scrap of the same glue up?

Brent

 

[Jisch]

My top will be 3/8ths or so. I am just not sure if I should cut the top small before gluing it to the body, or if I should glue it up full size and carve it back. Cutting it before gluing means I have to make decisions now, but it will be a cleaner line between the two.

I'm not using any dye.

 

[earlysecond]

Alright, you forced me to a cataclysmic decision which just makes me later for work than I already am!! HAHA

Here is what I came up with on that transition. Notice the top is a pretty clean, black line while the edge, where there is no black has bled a bit, despite my best efforts and some sanding to remove the problem.

Hope this shows you what you need. Note there are other areas of scalloping on the cut outs where the line is not as clean as I would have liked. It IS a challenge and your concern in valid! Good that you actually thought it out, I did NOT, obviously, haha!

OK, that is about the best I could do and as quickly as I can do it. BTW- the pearls are NOT visible at direct viewing angles, hence the term "ghost"

I was avoiding posting pics until I had finished up a bit more but you forced my hand. LOL

Brent

 

[earlysecond]

OH, well if you are not using dye. I am not the guy to best answer your question. I would think that I would glue the top as full size. That leaves routing, rasping, shaping options that you may not otherwise have. BUT with that said, if you would be happy with a consistent contrast line around the entire perimeter of the body, OR that is your goal, cutting it undersized from the start will save a LOT of work. Right? Totally your call. If you make if full sized and rasp to shape or scallop, you can vary the width of that transition line at will. So say you want a deep scallop like I have on the knee side of Sting-Jay your transition could be much wider there at less of an angle beveled to meet your styling goals. Again, I do not have enough experience under my belt to tell you for sure but I am confident that others will know!

Brent

 

[Jisch]

Thanks and apologies for making you late. That shows exactly what I was looking for. The pros/cons you list is exactly what I am pondering - though your thoughts have me leaning more toward a full top with scalloping to show relief rather than a square cutoff at the transition. I am not planning on having a consistent relief all the way around, just exposing it at certain points and to certain degrees like you did there.

Thanks a bunch, very helpful.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I've left my share of fingertip skin welded to various objects with CA glue, I keep a bottle of de-bonder handy. It's nasty stuff. I tried it for binding attachment based on a YouTube video, more skin glued to checkerboard binding. It sticks to latex gloves too, which I didn't realize until recently. It's good for a few things, but in general I avoid it. The shelf life sucks too, seems like by the time I get around to using it, it's all crystallized.

 

[earlysecond]

Gig,

It works, just a little too well HAHA

 

[beaglesandbass]

I'm not trying to be negative, the pics look very nice so far. Aside from being passive how to you anticipate the sound from being different than a Stingray in the HS configuration?

 

[earlysecond]

Bob,
Honestly I have no frame of reference to answer your question! I'm a total rookie. I am tonally ignorant but learning slowly. Please educate me on the HS pup position? Meaning the factory active MM pup? I doubt this will sound anything like a Sting Ray, it was not my intention. This home brewed contraption will sound just like it does. Only once have I ever played a bass which was worth more than a couple of hundred bucks. One I educate myself on building techniques, i will start to explore tone, pick ups and other important stuff. Im not at all sure what to expect but as soon as i complete it, i will report back. Hope what i am trying to say makes any sense?

One thing which IS making some of my recent builds have a bit different tone is my laziness in masking frets when pounding thick clear coat on a neck. This leaves a build up of clear poly on the frets which I have, intentionally NOT removed. I may have to. If it is not consistently thick it may effect intonation but fretting strings on the thick poly has a different sound, to my ears, than fretting on a bar of metal. I finished a telecaster this way and am waiting for it to be assembled to see if I can hear any difference. While I am sure it will not be as drastic as nice fretless m-whah sound. I believe it is different. Now, with that said, I am not sure that the poly coating on my frets will even hold up to regular playing and may need to be removed.

Compare/Contrast to a stock Ray. . . .I can't imagine this will have a lot in common. I have my 5 string Bongo kit with 2 passive MM pups and I like how it sounds. Truth be told, I have not ever played a real Music Man or even a Sterling bass so I don't know. When I set out to build. I was focused on cost, aesthetics, comfort, action, playability and then tone. My goal was to have as much tonal flexibility as I could get for less than $150 in pups in a passive configuration without the 60 hz hum on single coil Jazz pups. O only spent a total of $80 on these pick ups. I am hoping to achieve that goal but will not know until I wire this thing, which could occur as early as THIS evening. I will certainly let you know BUT am not a tone expert. . . .at least yet!
Brent

 

[earlysecond]

Well, sadly, I had a set back in the completion of my first build. Nothing that I cannot overcome though.

Originally I made the bottom "cut out" in the body deep enough toward the bridge that the project could accept standard pots and control knobs mounted on a plate. As I was shopping I was pointed to tumbwheel pots. These seemed VERY ideal for my application . .. . BUT that turns out that they were not functional enough to meet my needs.

For anybody considering the thumbwheel pots. I want to point out that any component of them which is not a conductor is plastic. I had them mounted on a steel tray and soldered (I was tempted to hit them with the MIG welder as they kept coming undone but knew I would ruin them). These controls turned out, at least the way I was trying to use them to be a failure for me.

Back to the original idea of using knobs in the recess. I will have to essentially start over, make a new plate and mount them. My biggest concern is that I may have to remove more wood, in places there is already not enough to pull this off!

NOW there is some excellent news in the meantime. I wired up an external 2V 1T control panel on some cardboard and with a quick set up of the bass was able to play it and LOVED the sounds I could get from it and even the action which is not fully dialed in as of yet.

I have a couple of more hours today to work a solution. I am really trying to avoid having to take the router to an essentially finished project. If I had some long shaft mini pots here, I could likely finish right now but I do not and can't see the big pots I bought fitting. We'll see!

Thanks for reading,
Brent

 

[earlysecond]

I had typed that last post before I was able to figure out a solution and finish the project late yesterday afternoon.

I am really pleased with this bass on many fronts. I like how it looks, overall. I really like how it sounds. The combination of pickups works very well and gives versatility from some growl to a very fat, warm supporting bass sound.

I think I will continue to put the finishing touches on it before I post final pictures.

This was my first build. It took a lot of learning. Especially the routing of the body for pups, control cavity and battery/switch for the lights. It was interrupted weeks at a time because of "life". Usually I work straight through but could not this time.

I already have the parts in my shopping cart at guitar fetish for my next build. Although I am up to 6 basses, I only own one with active pups. I do not own a jazz bass. I think I may break my own rules (I don't build something I can buy) and make a bolt on neck jazz bass with active pups and some other custom tweaks. <Maybe this one will be fretless as well. I have done one other fretless conversion. I have a feeling this one will look fairly traditional. I am going for budget on it. I want to keep it right around $200. Also I am going to work with ash this time. I envision the build after this jazz as my first neck thru attempt.

I am thinking that if I continue to build, I better start selling some of my lesser used basses.

Check back for my final review and pictures as soon as I finish up.

Brent

 

[earlysecond]

Well as advertised here are the wrap up pictures. I really enjoyed this build. Actually it came out more originally as I had envisioned than it would have otherwise for the simple fact that I could not make the thumbwheel controls work satisfactorily. My original vision included control knobs in the cut out that reshaped the whole guitar.

I put this together, slapped some light Xavier strings from guitarfetish (which are really a quality set of strings for $7) and I LOVE the finished product. I would choose this bass, after some more tinkering over any of the 6 I have created since I started.

Funny, I don't seem to want to be without a project and am planning the next. I need to finish up cleaning the shop first, what a disaster.

Well, you are really only here for the pics so here is how she came out. All in all, for a first scratch build (with a store bought but heavily modified neck) I am pretty darn happy and will continue to grow my guitar building skills as I move forward.

I want to take a minute to thank those of you here who talked me through this project with your input. A really big thank you to Hopkins who was always there to answer my rookie questions. . . . no matter how obvious the answer to him, he coached with humility in a language I could understand.

OK so it is on to bigger and better builds on my way to neck through satin finish basses. I will continue to build with value in mind, hoping someday that I might get to the level of true luthier AND be as good at this as many of you already are.

To those of you who make most of your living building guitars. . . . hats off! Until somebody takes the time that you MUST invest to build anything, let alone the quality of some of the fine basses shown on this site, they will NEVER understand the time and attention to detail it take to create quality work.

Thanks for looking,
Brent