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Pros and 'Unusual' Basses.

This thread is very diffuse.

Gonna hazard that all those jazz-types favoring Foderas are looking for a clean, full-range sound, with a lot of dynamic range, touch sensitivity and well-centered pitch. These are highly-evolved players, often playing in a context where subtle details will be noticed and appreciated, so no surprise that they cotton toward axes that can provide and support that kind of nuance. These axes may also be unforgiving if technique is sloppy. Also gotta say that R&B players seem more open to the high-end approach - probably a function of realizing advanced slap/pop techniques, and super-slick production values on a lot of commercial stuff…I've never seen a rocker play a Tobias, but have seen high-end R&B players with a 535 in hand, and sounding great in that situation.

Fenders won't get you that. The classic J and P bass sounds don't go to the frequency extremes, and have more of a pillow effect, both in the mix and, to my mind, with respect to pitch, especially the rosewood boards. Sounds great in many, many rock/pop/country contexts - slots nicely with the drums, makes everybody feel good and play better, and we're all so imbued with that sound and experience, I totally can see engineers loving the familiar (and passive) Fender classics, and contractors/bandleaders making decisions based on Fender expectations. And maybe a bit less likely to expose technical sloppiness...

Maybe Sadowsky splits that difference - you surely do see a lot of pro players using those instruments, in a wide range of contexts. You pay more, but the craftsmanship and quality control are superb (full disclosure - I've hosted a Sadowsky as my #1 for the last 5-6 years). Ditto for Lakland - great craftsmanship, superb necks/fretwork on the USA axes, but also deeply rooted in the Fender tradition.

Leo's march toward active electronics, via the Stingray and L2000…an interesting development. Strike me dead for saying it, but I've wondered whether as he got older, normal hearing loss started to affect his judgment re volume and tone. Stingray and L2K are both valid sounds, and the L2K is particularly interesting as it seems like it was intended to bridge the old P and J virtues and the brash focus of the Stingray, but they definitely push a lot more to the brighter, higher-frequency side of the spectrum - corresponding with loss of hearing high-frequencies as we age. Of course, music was changing as well, and with slap/pop and other techniques, and more prominence for the bass, a brighter sound with more focus and snap made sense.

So back to the OP and the L2K. A product priced around USA Fender product. More modern capability, but not quite able to fully mimic the classic Fender sounds (me, I think its the pickup magnets being ceramic rather than alnico, but I may be full of it). Not gonna deliver that something extra that the jazz heavies want or need. Some periodic QC difficulties over the years. Limited budget for advertising and comps/endorsements as compared with Fender. Limited dealer network. Limited changes to product line, although that seems to be changing with the new "M" series axes…and maybe they didn't need to do a lot of change because the L2K got so many things right from the get-go. But the net effect is seeing way more Fenders out there in all kinds of commercial music, to this day.
 
When it comes to pros even in big acts, the bass player is rarely the main priority. The singer, guitar(s), keys, background vocals, drums, horns, or any other instruments that are up there are getting significantly more attention from both the sound guy and the audience, like it or not. Because of that, if you come in with something recognizable like a P or a J they have a pretty good idea what to do with it and they can dial you in and get to ignoring you. For all the Geddy Lees and Marcus Millers out there that do play Fenders, get the spotlight and have "distinctive" sounds, there are hundreds of pros who are not in the spotlight who are expected to hold down the fort. I can name significantly more bands than I can name the bass players from those bands, and that is coming from a bass player.

If you are talking about pros in the sense that they are gigging musicians who make a large portion/all of their income from bass playing, there are a few common themes coming up here. You can find a Fender or a guy that knows how to fix yours in almost any city in the world, which is great for touring players. If you are being hired, I completely understand managers/artists making specific requests. A P bass has a different sound than a J bass, EBMM, or the many variations on two active soapbars. If I want a P bass sound on my project, I am going to request that and I'm not going to hire the guy that plays a seven string custom thing made out of woods I can't pronounce. That isn't being ignorant, that is requesting a certain palate of sounds for a job. Getting to the contractor analogy, if I wanted red paint and they just had blue, I would find someone who has what I want.

Do those people making those requests sometimes get it wrong? Absolutely. Sometimes you find yourself in a situation with an extended contract or in a project where you started as a sideman but now have some artistic input where you can bring up the idea of using a different tool. And sometimes, you just keep your mouth shut and cash your cheques.

Although there are exceptions, "do you play a Fender?" can usually be answered with "do you want a P bass or a J bass?" and if you show up with a Lakland or G&L or Sadowsky clone, you are quite often in the clear. In a pit or on the back of a stage the lighting usually sucks enough that they can't see the difference anyway. And in the cases where you have to play a Fender, ask yourself if you want that work/cheque. If you do, you get the "right" headstock pretty fast.
 
Go for it, I've had two, they're great!
For me to buy something other than an MIA Fender it would have to be substantially different. I don't see the point of paying more for the same stolen design. I mean those high end Fender clones. If they were so good,why not go out on a limb and design their own bass?
I repect Ibanez for going for a different look and finish,they make some really nice basses that I would buy in an instant. I'm thinking of an Ibby 5er actually...hmmm
 
Regardless of your playing environment, nothing spells credibility like a classic Fender brand bass. As long as you can play - walk in, pull out a P or a J, plug it in and see if anybody's going to question what comes out. I predict nobody will. This just follows from the history of pop/rock music. You may argue, resent the fact, and wish it were otherwise, but in the end, there it is.
 
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Agreed. But are you saying just as many pros would still choose Fender as their instrument of choice even if they weren't offered the huge endorsement deals?
Its my understanding that generally artists just get free gear. These guys can afford to nut thier own basses. I think many would play Fenders for free as many already had for thier whole careers.
They might play something else for enough $
I.e. the new Marcus Sire
Although i dont expect to see him on stage with one.
 
All Jaco neede was the
FeNDER bass of DOOM

Jazz fusion huh
Thats the Jesus of Jazz
That tired old absolutist statement.Knowing about Jaco,I did say "Most"
There's no telling what Jaco would be playing if he was alive today.

What do you mean by "The Jesus of Jazz?"
 
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Gonna hazard that all those jazz-types favoring Foderas are looking for a clean, full-range sound, with a lot of dynamic range, touch sensitivity and well-centered pitch. These are highly-evolved players, often playing in a context where subtle details will be noticed and appreciated, so no surprise that they cotton toward axes that can provide and support that kind of nuance. These axes may also be unforgiving if technique is sloppy. Also gotta say that R&B players seem more open to the high-end approach - probably a function of realizing advanced slap/pop techniques, and super-slick production values on a lot of commercial stuff…I've never seen a rocker play a Tobias, but have seen high-end R&B players with a 535 in hand, and sounding great in that situation.

Fenders won't get you that. The classic J and P bass sounds don't go to the frequency extremes, and have more of a pillow effect, both in the mix and, to my mind, with respect to pitch, especially the rosewood boards. Sounds great in many, many rock/pop/country contexts - slots nicely with the drums, makes everybody feel good and play better, and we're all so imbued with that sound and experience, I totally can see engineers loving the familiar (and passive) Fender classics, and contractors/bandleaders making decisions based on Fender expectations. And maybe a bit less likely to expose technical sloppiness...
Thank you.
 
Leo got it right
The p and J are perfect designs
Most other solidbody basses owe
Homage to them. The only real advancment has been active electronics and he started that with musicman. Why are so many high end customs just jazz or p copies.
(Lakelanf,sadowzky,lull eycj
With ****ed up headstocks
Its alot like Harley Davidson
You can buy a high end clone or
Buy into the history and heritage
Of the company.

I'm gonna agree and disagree at the same time. Yes, in a lot of ways, Leo DID get it right...but as already mentioned, he also found them to be flawed, which he worked to "fix" with G&L.

I often wonder why I never see anyone playing a Warwick Fortress. I've got one sitting in my lap right now. It's got the killer Warwick growl, and P pickup (on the Fortress One) kicks it into overdrive. Weighs less than all the other Warwicks I've owned, too. This bass kills, yet I never saw anyone well known playing one. Come to think I've it, I've never see ANYONE, but me, playing one.

The body shape is as solid as they come, but they don't really have a stock German-made version. I'd personally LOVE to get German-made Fortress, but all they have are the RockBass models...

A 6-string Fortress with humbuckers could very well become my primary bass.
Just sayin'...
 
I'm not touring and I'm certainly no pro so I should probably shut up, but of course I won't. I own too damn many basses because each one of them sounds different and has different tonal qualities. I have a couple of Fenders, a couple of "boutiques," some Chinese 30-inch scale hollowbodies, a Hofner Beatle copy. I fill in on a variety of bands and I can pretty much bring whatever sound on the bottom they're looking for. I play them all on a regular basis so I know what I can get out of them. If they want the P sound I bring my Fender. They want the J sound I bring my Jaguar Deluxe or my FGN Jazz. In the bar band world, most of the guys I play with don't care what the brand is, they just have a set sound in mind. I'm good with that. That being said, I was stoked when Pino Palladino played a Jag while playing with the Who. He could take 1 bass and make something close to all of the sounds JE made over the years.
 
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I agree I was stating that most of Leos significant designs and innovations took place at Fender and Musicman
Think thier boutique jazz bass copies
Maybe not quite "invent the electric bass as we know it and most of the well selling designs available for the next 60 years" innovations, but definitely demonstrated his dedication to building quality instruments that are accessible to most of us players.
Maybe not quite "invent the electric bass as we know it and most of the well selling designs available for the next 60 years" innovations, but definitely demonstrated his dedication to building quality instruments that are accessible to most of us players.
Maybe not quite "invent the electric bass as we know it and most of the well selling designs available for the next 60 years" innovations, but definitely demonstrated his dedication to building quality instruments that are accessible to most of us players.
 
Fender is the only brand EVRYONE including non musicians are aware of. It is well respected worldwide.
The headstock is like Harleys 45deg v twin. Anything else is a copy be it an SX or 10 grand sadowsky.
Were bass players our audience in most cases will not notice the subtle tonal differences as much as we do.