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punk eq?
- Thread starter gonzo5546
- Start date
- Jun 3, 2009
- 3,330
- 398
- Disclosures
- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
Having actually been known as a "punk artist" for the past 30 years, and having done many shows at CBGB's, everywhere in Boston and a ton of rat holes in between, I will first correct one poster here. Punk was NOT about anti-establishment. It WAS about DIY, the alternative to the then dominant, over-produced, arena album rock at the time. Think ELO, then strip all the Jeff Lynne out of it. Boston, without the million thick guitars and perfectly done vox. Think three minute songs, not three hour songs.
Second, best advice I ever got was from a punk legend. When it came to bass, your bass itself should be turned all the way up, including the tone. Every pickup should be in (although lets face it, most of us had some variation of a P-Bass or a Ric then because cheap P's and Rics could be found) Since in the beginning we didn't have amps with graphic eq, and sometimes we used guitar amps, the bass, treble and mid (if you had it) would all be relatively equal, although you would normally put the bass and treble one notch higher then the mid.
String choice doesn't really matter either. Great tones from Graham Maby (tapewounds), Paul Simonen (rounds) and Bruce Foxton (I seem to remember he had both flats and rounds on his rics, just depended on the color he was using that day.)
Punk was never meant to be a musical style. It was a movement. And not a social movement, but a musical movement. Much of what was labeled punk then was also pop. "Should I Stay or Should I Go." Is it a pop record or a punk record? See...
Second, best advice I ever got was from a punk legend. When it came to bass, your bass itself should be turned all the way up, including the tone. Every pickup should be in (although lets face it, most of us had some variation of a P-Bass or a Ric then because cheap P's and Rics could be found) Since in the beginning we didn't have amps with graphic eq, and sometimes we used guitar amps, the bass, treble and mid (if you had it) would all be relatively equal, although you would normally put the bass and treble one notch higher then the mid.
String choice doesn't really matter either. Great tones from Graham Maby (tapewounds), Paul Simonen (rounds) and Bruce Foxton (I seem to remember he had both flats and rounds on his rics, just depended on the color he was using that day.)
Punk was never meant to be a musical style. It was a movement. And not a social movement, but a musical movement. Much of what was labeled punk then was also pop. "Should I Stay or Should I Go." Is it a pop record or a punk record? See...
I had a Markbass LMII with a Sansamp and got some good tone out of that. Set up the Sansamp with the Fat Tube setting and boosted the mids on the LMII. But recently I decided I wanted something even more simpler, so I traded the Sansamp for a GK 400RB and it's everything I've ever wanted tonewise! Volume, Treble, Low Mids and Bass at noon; High Mids and Boost at 2; Master around 9-10. I play a P bass with Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounders.
I think there's a misconception that punk is in some way about being dumb and not caring, throwing caution to the wind. The punk that spawned what we call indie today wasn't that way at all.
Case in point, Watt, who had his own thread on here. He went out of his way to chat bass with strangers, and I'm sure you'll find better advice than "turn it all up and moon somebody" in his threads.
I found the book "This Band Could Be Your Life" through his threads here on talkbass, and it opened my eyes to the idea that punk used to be smart, and still is, it's just that the mainstream called it indie in the late 90's and early 2000's, and now like everything it's all caught up to itself.
Not to derail, recreate.me nailed exactly what I was trying to say:
Case in point, Watt, who had his own thread on here. He went out of his way to chat bass with strangers, and I'm sure you'll find better advice than "turn it all up and moon somebody" in his threads.
I found the book "This Band Could Be Your Life" through his threads here on talkbass, and it opened my eyes to the idea that punk used to be smart, and still is, it's just that the mainstream called it indie in the late 90's and early 2000's, and now like everything it's all caught up to itself.
Not to derail, recreate.me nailed exactly what I was trying to say:
There is no such thing as a staple, standard punk bass EQ. I would say that a slightly overdrivern tube sound is all you really need. EQ to taste. Hell, even within some punk bands there were wildly different EQs from song to song.
I was not genuinely offended
I was failing at attempting to mock the "so open minded my brain fell out" crowd that often patrol these waters. I really do think the punk sound is fairly situational to the band. As a counterpoint to my own post, I doubt if you asked any punk bassist what tonewoods were best for his style, which fingerboard material he preffered and whether or not he thinks poly is better than nitro, he is going to look at you cross eyed!
Ah! gotcha. Post reading fail on my part. sarkazm iz teh difficultz on teh interwebz.
and even though I am a raging liberal, I always laugh my head off whenever I hear that quote.
My .02...
I've never been into punk kind of sounds until 2005. I worked for a touring ska-punk band for 3 years, now working with another one but most importantly, I formed my own band in which I also sing. I warn that I only like modern punk, this means I respects Ramones, Pistols and the such, but a band playing that in 2010 sounds OLD to me and am glad I didn't have to go thru' that era of punk, God bless "easier to approach" bands like A Wilhelm Scream that get non-punkers to start liking punk ;-) Previous to "becoming punk" (LMAO) I used the most clean sound I could get from my Stingray5, period. So my goal these last years has been to achieve a sound that's both:
1) MIX FRIENDLY, is there, chest pumping in a precise frequency range, very punchy, with lows not overlapping with those of the guitar, and which easily blends with the kick drum.
2) NICE WHEN SOLO, compressed, balanced frequency-wise (sort of "mastered"/full) and growly/crunchy.
So after quite some years I came to these conclusions (backed up with the fact that I'm happy with my sound lately):
1) For being MIX FRIENDLY you have to be correctly EQed and compressed. I'm a heavy compression user, I find it works light years away better in a punk band context, as of today a total believer of it's benefits (not getting lost, making things easy to sound techs, etc.). Regarding EQ there's a guitar-related part. Even in the most heavy musics out there it works way better for my ears when guitars don't invade our zone, but most of all, below the 150Hz area, which is where the bass focus will have to be (next). Once again, guitars not sounding bassy help your soundguy a lot. For the bass not to get lost in the mix (nothing new for most of you probably) it works to have some peak in EQ around 100hz (you judge the Q). I do, some 3-5dB and move the peak higher (around 200hz with a wider Q) when playing fingerstyle so I don't have to play too hard and therefore perform better. This zone of the EQ is what will keep us present when the whole band is playing. For clarity/articulation of your tone, judge when it's necessary to attenuate excessive sub-low making your bass boomy, usually it does nothing for you, your band, recording, nor live sound/monitoring. I normally use a hi-pass filter (in a cheap Behringer para-EQ -just for rehearsals, with an also cheap Samson compressor/gate-) at 50Hz to get rid of it. Now the upper part of the EQ has all to do with...
2) The NICE SOLO TONE you want to hear is more a matter of taste, you just dial the tone you like, just DON'T touch anything under 500Hz. Normally I like sounds that are balanced. How balanced? Pick any hi-fi modern record of your style. It probably sounds full, there's sound at every frequency from 40hz to 15khz so, what I like is that when the band goes off I still can hear lots of detail going on along the whole frequency spectrum from the bass alone. This is what makes a nice tone for me, and for any cheap spectrum analyzer. If you feel curious about how "flat" you think you are and have one of these + any barely decent mic, you try EQing flat for your ears and then see what the spectrum analyzer tells you. Correct and get used to your new "flat". My flat sucked, I learned to listen better in the process. So, for example, if your bass is nasal, probably you'll have to kill what disturbs there in the mids, if it's clicky, cut the high-mids, is it dark sounding?, bright it up to flat/balanced/even throughout the mid and hi sections of EQ.
Now for the crunch. I use a SansAmp RBI for rehearsal/studio recording. Not a blind praiser but works great for me. I use gain around 2 o'clock, kill down the presence (which happens to be flat, this only only boosts) or just a tad, bass flat, mids and highs a bit cut (around 10 o'clock both). The blend control the RBI has is a handy thing. It "de-muds" your sound (turning towards "clean") or crunches it up (towards "effected"). I normally use it 1/3 pr half way towards crunchyland. This works with a pick AND fingerstyle (with the aforementioned change in low EQ). In my band (www.bittermambo.com, where I also sing) I play 100% with a pick. In the band (Link Removed, ska-punk) I do a 50/50 work and never dial anything different for recording nor live work.
Some samples for you to check (watch out for the bass "solo" details)...
These were all made with the SansAmp thru a Behringer EP1500 power amp thru' a heavily modified Hartke 4.5XL cab (I also add a modified 215XL only for rehearsal):
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (beginning of verses)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (song intro & verses)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (fast as hell, still CLEAR and can apreciate bass' tone)
These were made with just the SansAmp (no box, no clean signal -just the blend dialed in the SansAmp-, I also produced this record):
Link Removed
Link Removed
Link Removed
(in these you can appreciate the tone a lot better, there's more space for it to sound, it's great fun -and challenge- as a bass player too, I just prefer MY band's music -for me even a bigger challenge-)
LIVE, I accomplish a very alike sound via:
Zoom 708II pedalboard, in a re-EQed version of the PCKBET factory preset (+ noise reduction)
Hartke HA3500 head, cleanest ever, compressor at 12 and EQed around the previously explained (believe it or not)
Hartke 410XL (with added horn) & 115XL (with speaker replaced)
Sounds almost as good.
I think I wrote a lot, but maybe some of my "becoming punk at 30" story give you a clue that's useful for your purpose. Keep punking. Cheers!
I've never been into punk kind of sounds until 2005. I worked for a touring ska-punk band for 3 years, now working with another one but most importantly, I formed my own band in which I also sing. I warn that I only like modern punk, this means I respects Ramones, Pistols and the such, but a band playing that in 2010 sounds OLD to me and am glad I didn't have to go thru' that era of punk, God bless "easier to approach" bands like A Wilhelm Scream that get non-punkers to start liking punk ;-) Previous to "becoming punk" (LMAO) I used the most clean sound I could get from my Stingray5, period. So my goal these last years has been to achieve a sound that's both:
1) MIX FRIENDLY, is there, chest pumping in a precise frequency range, very punchy, with lows not overlapping with those of the guitar, and which easily blends with the kick drum.
2) NICE WHEN SOLO, compressed, balanced frequency-wise (sort of "mastered"/full) and growly/crunchy.
So after quite some years I came to these conclusions (backed up with the fact that I'm happy with my sound lately):
1) For being MIX FRIENDLY you have to be correctly EQed and compressed. I'm a heavy compression user, I find it works light years away better in a punk band context, as of today a total believer of it's benefits (not getting lost, making things easy to sound techs, etc.). Regarding EQ there's a guitar-related part. Even in the most heavy musics out there it works way better for my ears when guitars don't invade our zone, but most of all, below the 150Hz area, which is where the bass focus will have to be (next). Once again, guitars not sounding bassy help your soundguy a lot. For the bass not to get lost in the mix (nothing new for most of you probably) it works to have some peak in EQ around 100hz (you judge the Q). I do, some 3-5dB and move the peak higher (around 200hz with a wider Q) when playing fingerstyle so I don't have to play too hard and therefore perform better. This zone of the EQ is what will keep us present when the whole band is playing. For clarity/articulation of your tone, judge when it's necessary to attenuate excessive sub-low making your bass boomy, usually it does nothing for you, your band, recording, nor live sound/monitoring. I normally use a hi-pass filter (in a cheap Behringer para-EQ -just for rehearsals, with an also cheap Samson compressor/gate-) at 50Hz to get rid of it. Now the upper part of the EQ has all to do with...
2) The NICE SOLO TONE you want to hear is more a matter of taste, you just dial the tone you like, just DON'T touch anything under 500Hz. Normally I like sounds that are balanced. How balanced? Pick any hi-fi modern record of your style. It probably sounds full, there's sound at every frequency from 40hz to 15khz so, what I like is that when the band goes off I still can hear lots of detail going on along the whole frequency spectrum from the bass alone. This is what makes a nice tone for me, and for any cheap spectrum analyzer. If you feel curious about how "flat" you think you are and have one of these + any barely decent mic, you try EQing flat for your ears and then see what the spectrum analyzer tells you. Correct and get used to your new "flat". My flat sucked, I learned to listen better in the process. So, for example, if your bass is nasal, probably you'll have to kill what disturbs there in the mids, if it's clicky, cut the high-mids, is it dark sounding?, bright it up to flat/balanced/even throughout the mid and hi sections of EQ.
Now for the crunch. I use a SansAmp RBI for rehearsal/studio recording. Not a blind praiser but works great for me. I use gain around 2 o'clock, kill down the presence (which happens to be flat, this only only boosts) or just a tad, bass flat, mids and highs a bit cut (around 10 o'clock both). The blend control the RBI has is a handy thing. It "de-muds" your sound (turning towards "clean") or crunches it up (towards "effected"). I normally use it 1/3 pr half way towards crunchyland. This works with a pick AND fingerstyle (with the aforementioned change in low EQ). In my band (www.bittermambo.com, where I also sing) I play 100% with a pick. In the band (Link Removed, ska-punk) I do a 50/50 work and never dial anything different for recording nor live work.
Some samples for you to check (watch out for the bass "solo" details)...
These were all made with the SansAmp thru a Behringer EP1500 power amp thru' a heavily modified Hartke 4.5XL cab (I also add a modified 215XL only for rehearsal):
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (beginning of verses)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (song intro & verses)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (fast as hell, still CLEAR and can apreciate bass' tone)
These were made with just the SansAmp (no box, no clean signal -just the blend dialed in the SansAmp-, I also produced this record):
Link Removed
Link Removed
Link Removed
(in these you can appreciate the tone a lot better, there's more space for it to sound, it's great fun -and challenge- as a bass player too, I just prefer MY band's music -for me even a bigger challenge-)
LIVE, I accomplish a very alike sound via:
Zoom 708II pedalboard, in a re-EQed version of the PCKBET factory preset (+ noise reduction)
Hartke HA3500 head, cleanest ever, compressor at 12 and EQed around the previously explained (believe it or not)
Hartke 410XL (with added horn) & 115XL (with speaker replaced)
Sounds almost as good.
I think I wrote a lot, but maybe some of my "becoming punk at 30" story give you a clue that's useful for your purpose. Keep punking. Cheers!
RedLeg
Supporting Member
but you left the knobs onThe Tubedriver is my FX and "EQ".
As you can see I'm in a punk band.
I play a Gibson SG with a plectrum and a Warwick Thumb NT 4 with me fingers over it, both with the same settings, all at 10, except the drive.
Let's try this in the Technique forum, sounds like it would be more appropriate there than Band Management.
Moved.
Moved.
Those settings are for real on that tubedriver, I do use it that way.
But I do think that you should find out yourself, how you like your sound best.
No one can really tell you what you like and how to play.
How you "should" sound, depents on a lot af things, like, what kind of punk you want to make.
Is it greenday or Discharge.
It's best to try and try at rehearsels and listen to what you bandmates have to say about it, create your own sound.
You want to be different, right?
Punk.... not mainstream.
So don't go with what someone else say what you should do, that is not punk.
But I do think that you should find out yourself, how you like your sound best.
No one can really tell you what you like and how to play.
How you "should" sound, depents on a lot af things, like, what kind of punk you want to make.
Is it greenday or Discharge.
It's best to try and try at rehearsels and listen to what you bandmates have to say about it, create your own sound.
You want to be different, right?
Punk.... not mainstream.
So don't go with what someone else say what you should do, that is not punk.
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,398
- 9,830
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
everyone except the dude that offered the frown eq here was useless -.- hes asking for a starting point and then hes gona adjust, I push the mids up, and lower my lows and highs just under half on my eq. But my rig is very different than yours, Im using a dark glass alpha omega ultra eq and emg pups through my ampeg stack.
yes, but people like me looking for settings will see this, and maybe they could use the updated info. You saw it didnt youDid you realize this thread was 8 years old and the poster hasn't posted since 2013?
Well yeah and when I did I deleted my post. I have only dabbled in punk but have always thought of it as being good gritty rock n roll and I like SVT's for that type of music but without the mids any louder than the rest, to me a P bass and an SVT can't be beat like Dee Dee.
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