I'm with Jim. I've already offered my views elsewhere about the superiority of the sound (at high levels) from my CA-6 versus my now-history Stewart 2.1. The CA series just gets it done for me.
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QSC PLX v. Crest Audio CA Series
- Thread starter Folmeister
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Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
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- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Mudbass said:
If you record the CD without any compression, don't you think you can easily equal or surpass the practical dynamic range that you could achieve with a typically noisy bass preamp and bass? If you record it with lots of compression, you could thermally stress the amp far more than a typical bass player would, and achieve a greater continuous current demand if that's your goal. If you demand still more dynamic range, use a 24 bit recording instead of a CD.
I do agree that the feel of what you're hearing with the CD will be different than what happens when you have pickups and strings in the feedback loop of the amplification system at high volume though. You could mike a cab and record a signal that at least partially reflects that though, if you feel that it's important.
- Apr 3, 2003
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Mudbass said:
As I understand it, I would just be using the test tone on the CD to help equalize the output voltages of the amps. The actual listening tests would be done using a recording of me playing my bass (and probably some other material as well).
Tom.
Passinwind said:
I'm not arguing with you here, I don't know enough about this stuff to give you a good arguement, but I didn't think a CD ROM had the ability to reproduce the full dynamic range of a bass guitar. As recording medium it's light years ahead of tape or vinyl, but it still has it's limits.
The CD is just a way to produce a reference tone to balance the gains.
Tom, I'm pretty sure your meter will respond to 1kHz, but accuracy will be degraded. I don't think it's an issue, as it will have the same inaccuracy for each amp, the error will cancel.
- John
Tom, I'm pretty sure your meter will respond to 1kHz, but accuracy will be degraded. I don't think it's an issue, as it will have the same inaccuracy for each amp, the error will cancel.
- John
All the test, specs, blindfolds, mice, rubber bands and voo doo put togerther dont mean squat to me. The only complete and fair test is when I play a gig. Its my money, my tone, I want performance at a gig.
When I play at a loud venue, my plx 3402 glows redder from clipping than an Irishman at the beach with no suntan lotion.
It wont get loud enough and outside it sounds thin and the tone wont carry. If I use my CA-9.... problem solved, end of story.
My point is, why on earth would I turn down the CA-9 half way, when I need more volume or better tone at a gig, and bring testing gear, so I could say, hey lets be fair and on equal ground with my plx 3402. Why dont we bring a 610 cab to a gig and unplug four of the speakers so we can be fair to a 210 cab.
All Im going to do is turn it on, turn it up and play. If a piece of gear cant keep up, it cant keep up. I dont care why.
Thanks for posting peeps, good thread.
When I play at a loud venue, my plx 3402 glows redder from clipping than an Irishman at the beach with no suntan lotion.
It wont get loud enough and outside it sounds thin and the tone wont carry. If I use my CA-9.... problem solved, end of story.My point is, why on earth would I turn down the CA-9 half way, when I need more volume or better tone at a gig, and bring testing gear, so I could say, hey lets be fair and on equal ground with my plx 3402. Why dont we bring a 610 cab to a gig and unplug four of the speakers so we can be fair to a 210 cab.
All Im going to do is turn it on, turn it up and play. If a piece of gear cant keep up, it cant keep up. I dont care why.
Thanks for posting peeps, good thread.
the dude said:
I think the technical jargon gets in the way of the hard facts. Numbers don't change what happens live.
Brian Barrett
Commercial User
- Nov 25, 2001
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all the test are cool, but honestly I want what sounds best when I plug into it and play a bass through it. If I have to do a bunch of work to make inputs equal and outputs equal then personally the one that needs all the extra work to make sound even or as good isnt worth the extra work. Why cant that amp just be built to be hotter on the front input if thats why the other amps sound better or have more volume, etc.
Just all sounds like a lot of work, I just want what sound best when I plug into it!
thanks for all the specs and opinions.....................
Just all sounds like a lot of work, I just want what sound best when I plug into it!
thanks for all the specs and opinions.....................
Joe Beets said:Ok, so which is better, the Crest or the Stewart?
"Better" is subjective. For my taste it took only 10-15 minutes of listening to know what I wanted.
The (very lightweight) Stewart is now one of our PA amps (and handling it very well) while the Crest is pushing the flavor of the day bass cabinets.
inazone said:
To be fair, I don't think anybody is suggesting that. From what you said, it sounds as though you are just getting more power from the Crest than from the PLX. The "matching gains" is important when you do an A/B test at a "medium" volume. However, you apparently pushed the PLX to it's limit, and have yet to do that with the Crest. In that comparison, the gain doesn't matter - it seems you got more power from the Crest than the PLX (assuming there was no internal compression going on in the Crest without your knowledge).
And as if my link to the ProSoundWeb shootout wasnt fantastic enough for you guys, ( 
) heres what Crown has to say on the subject:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Jack.
) heres what Crown has to say on the subject:[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Jack.
Jack said:And as if my link to the ProSoundWeb shootout wasnt fantastic enough for you guys, (
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Jack.
Groan! After a bunch of mumbo-jumbo about V-I plots they show a V-I plot for a Crown and one for a competitor's amp. Well, guess what? The Crown they pick is capable of producing more output than the Competitor. And for the measurement, they do not exceed the maximum power output of the Crown, but they do for the Competitor.
It's pretty inane logic. "Why does the Crown sound louder"? Because it's more powerful! compare it against an equivalent "competitor" amplifier, please!
Brian Barrett said:
These were exactly my feelings too. My PLX was clipping frequently and I needed a solution; I tried out a CA-9 and ended up buying it because it didn't clip had more headroom.
Jim bergantino wrote:
"And I certainly wont try to bait you into my carefully spun, web of deception, like another individual has so cleverly tried to do, to try and convince you your opinions are baseless because they where formed incorrectly or not to my or someone elses standards!"
That's really uncalled for, personal insult crap...I just crossed bergantino off my list of potential cabs.
By all means, trust your ears--if it sounds good it is good etc etc. You give some thought to why, if you like, but there's no need to. The difference between amps might be accounted for by the input sensitivity, or it might not. You could find out, or not. There's no reason that i can see to be insulting. I like my genz benz neox 2x12, even though Jim bergantino says it doesn't sound good. i trust my ears
As everyone says, technologies have adavtanegs and disadvantages. i'd like to play through an SVT, but not enough to haul the weight around. Does a crest sound twenty pounds better than a PLX? I don't know, but at 2 am it sounds like a pain to lift.
"And I certainly wont try to bait you into my carefully spun, web of deception, like another individual has so cleverly tried to do, to try and convince you your opinions are baseless because they where formed incorrectly or not to my or someone elses standards!"
That's really uncalled for, personal insult crap...I just crossed bergantino off my list of potential cabs.
By all means, trust your ears--if it sounds good it is good etc etc. You give some thought to why, if you like, but there's no need to. The difference between amps might be accounted for by the input sensitivity, or it might not. You could find out, or not. There's no reason that i can see to be insulting. I like my genz benz neox 2x12, even though Jim bergantino says it doesn't sound good. i trust my ears
As everyone says, technologies have adavtanegs and disadvantages. i'd like to play through an SVT, but not enough to haul the weight around. Does a crest sound twenty pounds better than a PLX? I don't know, but at 2 am it sounds like a pain to lift.
Then what exactly do you mean by "I think it's time to put this whole arguement to rest." Sounds like your spinning a web of your own. We all appreciate your comments greatly and you brought up alot of good points, but to insult a guy when you have even less proof is self righteous and classless.PB+J said:
ster said:
JMO but " I think its time to put this whole arguement to rest" is valid. I wish this thread was around two years ago before I bought three plx amps and was told that all high end amps sound and perform the same. Im still waiting for someone to show me why my Trace 280 watt amp gets louder and has less clipping than my 1100 watt plx.
Every time this issue comes up we are led to belive we need to match gain or "buy" more power. Two thousand dollars later, I take these claims with a grain of salt.
Thanks Mr. B for posting.
geshel said:
To be fair, that is what they are asking when they say I need to match gains to put the amps on a level playing field and you have to turn down the CA to the half way point. Ive done this (at least close) and the plx clips all over the place and the CA is in idle with lots of room to spare.
PB&J;
Go back and read Jim's post again. He didn't say that your 2/12 GB Neo sounded bad; he said it sounded different. This thread has been characterized by, at times, too much emotion on both sides of the argument. One thing I will agree with Jim on: Scientific measurement does not explain or define everything. I, for instance, still believe that airliners were much more interesting and fun to travel on when they had piston engines and propellors. Boy, did I just date myself with that one.
Go back and read Jim's post again. He didn't say that your 2/12 GB Neo sounded bad; he said it sounded different. This thread has been characterized by, at times, too much emotion on both sides of the argument. One thing I will agree with Jim on: Scientific measurement does not explain or define everything. I, for instance, still believe that airliners were much more interesting and fun to travel on when they had piston engines and propellors. Boy, did I just date myself with that one.
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