• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Question about Neodymium drivers

gtirard

gtirard

Feb 22, 2020
5,622
1
16,978
58
Paris, France
inred-music.com
#1
I'm confused about Neodymium drivers:
  • Some people say the only way to make a lightweight cab is to use Neodymium drivers.
  • A few people say that Neodymium sound crap.
  • A lot of manufacturers don't say if the drivers they use in their cabs are Neodymium or not.
I have 2 cabs that I love, one is a Barefaced and I know it's not a Neo but it's super light, the other is a GR Bass and they don't say if it's a Neo or not, but it is also super light and it sound great.

So my questions are:
"Only Neo cabs can be light" Is there such a law?
What are the tonal drawback of Neo cabs?

I hope these questions are not as stupid and sterile as the class D related discussions…

And maybe it has been discussed already, sorry if I missed it…
 
  • Like
Reactions: Drredplate and DJ Bebop
#2
I think there has been a fair amount of discussion about the sound of neo drivers. My own opinion is it doesn't matter what material is used for the magnet; what matters is how much magnetic flux it can generate in the gap. There isn't an inherent 'sound' to neo drivers; if someone thinks a driver sounds bad, it isn't likely to be because of some inherent quality of the magnetic material, IMHO.

I don't think using a neo driver is absolutely necessary to build a lightweight speaker system, but if the goal is to build the lightest possible cab, then yes, neodymium drivers are the optimum and obvious choice. Just glancing at the specs for some representative Eminence drivers, I see there's a ~7 kg. difference between a Kappalite 12" driver and a comparable ferrite driver. If one wanted to design a very light cab, starting with a driver that is 7 kg. heavier isn't going to be as effective. OTOH, the weight of the enclosure typically makes up the larger portion of the overall weight of a speaker system, suggesting that designing a reasonably lightweight cab using conventional drivers isn't totally ruled out, just that it won't (can't) be as light as the same cab with a neo driver.

I think generally speaking, manufacturers will disclose that a cab uses neo drivers -- it's perceived as a marketing advantage. GR Bass might be the exception; I think they almost certainly HAVE to use neo drivers to achieve their remarkably low overall weight, but that builder does seem to be a bit reluctant to share too much information about the technology used.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jim C, Jeff Bonny, Killing Floor and 19 others
#4
A neo speaker sounding great or poorly has nothing to do with the neo magnate. It is based on the design of the speaker and/or enclosure.

The rest of your questions is all subjective. Can you have a "light" cabinet without a neo speaker??? Sure, but what is "light" to you? Also, the same cabinet will be lighter with a neo speaker.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jim C, Al Kraft, Rip Van Dan and 11 others
#6
Let’s create some internet lore.


What’s the effect of placing magnets or ferrous metal structures in close proximity to a speaker?

Some cabs can have more than one speaker, do the magnets interact?

Are cabinets with only one speaker better because of no inter-speaker magnetic field interaction?

Are speakers with smaller magnet fields better?

Rather than a permanent magnet, would a rotating magnetic flux around a speaker improve the sound? Did the old AC field coil speakers sound better?

In tube combo amps, do the power supply and output transformer fields affect the speaker’s magnetic field?

Does elevating a speaker help reduce interaction with the earth’s ground plane?

How do the neo and permanent magnet flux densities compare?

_____


Does a speaker perform differently if it’s on a metal ship (see the video below about compass compensation)?

Why ships have balls:


_____

The answer is, don’t worry about any of this, you’re fine. Or are you? :laugh:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Killing Floor, 2tonic, hennessybass and 4 others
#11
gtirard said:
"Only Neo cabs can be light" Is there such a law?
Click to expand...
All specs otherwise being equal, one cab can be lighter than another because it uses lighter speakers, or because it uses less (or lighter) material for the cabinet construction (thinner walls with more bracing, for example), or both. Speakers can lose weight by using neodymium magnets rather than ceramic, or by using less or lighter materials for other components, such as the basket.

Not being a speaker designer I can only speculate, but my guess is that speaker companies might feel incentive to build lighter speakers not only because customers want them, but because less material means less expense. 3/4" thick plywood is more expensive than 1/2" thick plywood. Lighter speakers could also be cheaper to ship.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop, MCF, lOmnivore S and 2 others
#12
SOME PEOPLE obviously don't know that it doesn't do much good to try and cut weight by putting a 1/3 lighter speaker in a cabinet made out of old school 3/4" marine plywood or MDF. Current modern designs use lighter materials, minimal bracing and dampening, etc. In other words, a systemic lightening. SOME PEOPLE should do their homework.

A FEW PEOPLE need to realize that for bass guitar cabinets, you can take whatever you think is the greatest speaker, put it in a poorly designed cabinet, and it will sound like crap. Bass cabinets are WAY different than guitar cabinets which a far easier to try out different speakers. Bass speakers and their cabinets are designed to go together. Again, a FEW PEOPLE don't recognize this connection.

On the contrary, a LOT OF MANUFACTURERS do toot their own horn about Neos in their advertising to hope for a buyer in a bass guitar market where so many want smaller and lighter rigs.

Take a note from my experience: Them, this guy, my buddy, the bass player in _______________, that guy on YouTube, this guy on the internet, etc. WILL COST YOU A FORTUNE in buying equipment that won't do what THEY said it would and it won't sound like they said it would, breaks down often, etc., once YOU buy one.

I know this because until I started educating myself, I bought a lot of junk that didn't do what THEY said it would do.

Once I learned even the bare basics and I could read spec sheets or instrumented lab test reviews, you know what? I never put a foot wrong again.

Don't be a subscriber to SOME PEOPLE.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ctmullins, BlueTalon, MCF and 7 others
#14
gtirard said:
I'm confused about Neodymium drivers:
  • Some people say the only way to make a lightweight cab is to use Neodymium drivers.
  • A few people say that Neodymium sound crap.
  • A lot of manufacturers don't say if the drivers they use in their cabs are Neodymium or not.
I have 2 cabs that I love, one is a Barefaced and I know it's not a Neo but it's super light, the other is a GR Bass and they don't say if it's a Neo or not, but it is also super light and it sound great.

So my questions are:
"Only Neo cabs can be light" Is there such a law?
What are the tonal drawback of Neo cabs?

I hope these questions are not as stupid and sterile as the class D related discussions…

And maybe it has been discussed already, sorry if I missed it…
Click to expand...
Don’t listen to anyone calling neos crap. Some folk refuse to take anything that wasn't about when they were children.

I was at a gig at the weekend, where the bassman had a 2x15 so light I could have lifted it with one hand. As well as having neos, it was made from carbon fibre. Markbass now make speakers from lightweight material. Some have neos, some have ceramics.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MCF and agedhorse
#15
It depends very much on the overall design. Drivers can be designed to sound like however the designer intends regardless of the magnetic material. It’s possible to design ceramic drivers that provide greater performance than a “typical” ceramic driver with less weight by using a higher grade magnetic material, advanced gap geometry, lighter moving mass, etc. of course this costs more and results in a different set of compromises or tradeoffs.

It’s also possible to reduce the weight of the cabinet, either through the use of alternate materials, construction methods or both.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MaxSpinrun, Coot, Al Kraft and 10 others
#18
When neodymium was first used in audio back in the 80s, it was four times more powerful than comparable weight ferrite magnets. So - if weight is a primary concern, neo is the way to go. Neodymium is a commodity and its price fluctuates a good bit more thanks to China’s efforts to control the market. The material is available from lots of sources, but China makes it economically difficult for others to compete with them. So using neo costs more
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Al Kraft, fdeck, DJ Bebop and 2 others

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back