Question about pedal power and supply

[gjohnson441496]

when

This is one reason why I did not ask this question over there. I'm more interested in the average player using a few pedals or a smaller pedal board. I can see once you get a number of pedals it becomes impractical (not to mention uneconomical) to use batteries.

I'm that player. I may have mentioned this before. I'm down to 2-3 pedals now. I want to keep it to a minimum. I have a Cry Baby Mini, an EHX Big Muff Pi, and an MXR Bass d.i. The CB and BM are for guitar. The Bass di and BM are for bass. What I like about my Voodoo Lab Power supply are the 2 channels for regulating voltage which I use for the Cry Baby and Big Muff. Also, when I'm recording I may pull one pedal out and use the connection for another pedal instead of having them all plugged in.

 

[Downunderwonder]

That's an original Japanese issue machine...if you look at the directions they're in Japanese. I bought it from a guy about 10 years ago, sent it to my tech for a good going through. We used it non stop for about 7 years before it stopped coming to all but the most important shows for us. We use a Fulltone nowadays, but it doesn't sound as good. It lives in a good climate controlled studio these days and is used on a pile of dubs.

The real secret is good tape and the 'right' tape. It's really picky with the weight of the medium and easy to ruin the heads with tape that's too rough. It likes a 'dry lubricated' tape...specifically this one:

View attachment 3167983

That's got to be NOS. Who makes magnetic tape anymore?

 

[erigod23]

For live playing, I don't even consider batteries. Having a reliable power supply is very important when using pedals.
One thing I do like, is that I can use phantom power with my Sansamp, FWIW.

 

[coreyfyfe]

These days, how important is it that a pedal operate from a 9V battery (acknowledging that some simply can not) and is it worth paying more for a pedal that can support battery operation (even if it means <20 hours of battery life)?

As a follow-up, how many of you guys would suggest that the days of using 9V batteries is coming to an end?

Late to the party on this thread and I'm sure you've gotten a lot of answers on this front already but I keep two pedal boards, different arrangements for different bands. Both have isolated power supplies. Nothing runs on batteries.

When I build pedals I don't include battery options unless it's something that will specifically be used without a power source (pedal headphone amp, standalone preamp, etc), and that's rare.

When I buy pedals I don't even consider whether or not a pedal can take batteries and I generally would not gig with something running on batteries. Even when I had just a single pedal/preamp for use at a gig I would bring a power supply and preferred to plug in if I could.

 

[Lowendtech]

Interesting and somewhat unexpected responses.

Follow-up question for those of you using the Subway PRE-DI, who uses a battery and who uses an outboard power supply of some type?

I use a power supply but I don’t mind that it has an option for a battery (knowing that it’s a short term option).

 

[blubass]

@agedhorse I don't know if you want to muddy up this thread with side bar, so please delete or ask me to if so, and my apologies.

What are the limitations to using or modifying a midi style cable to pass guitar signal and carry/send power? If possible, that would enable new amp designs to produce power at the input jack for active systems, and at the footswitch jack for newly designed pedals. Maybe it would make the cable too robust and hard to manage? Interference?

 

[agedhorse]

@agedhorse I don't know if you want to muddy up this thread with side bar, so please delete or ask me to if so, and my apologies.

What are the limitations to using or modifying a midi style cable to pass guitar signal and carry/send power? If possible, that would enable new amp designs to produce power at the input jack for active systems, and at the footswitch jack for newly designed pedals. Maybe it would make the cable too robust and hard to manage? Interference?

Good question, a midi/DIN connector is not very robust but there are XLR options. Much of this comes down to standards

 

[tadawson]

I don't think MIDI has any shielded pairs either, and the DIN connectors ofter fall apart if you look at them wrong. For durability, myself, I'd go 4 pin XLR, or if you want smaller, mini 4 pin XLR. As agedhorse noted, it would be nice if the industry could come up with a standard for this . . .

 

[abarson]

Reading through this, it seems to me that preamp/DI pedals make sense to be phantom powered from a mixing board, and if there was a way to pass the voltage downstream, that would be cool. But that would be highly proprietary and incompatible with the vast majority of pedals on the market.
As for my own usage, the only time I use a battery is if I want to do a quick sound check and can't be bothered finding a power supply.

 

[figuredbass]

Man, that's some serious OCD stuff

Nah, not really - took 5 minutes to do back in the late 90s and eliminated any crackly-crack caused at the input jack.

The pedals were also modified back then to increase headroom for my active bass, and to minimize noise and signal degradation. The better op amps draw way too much current to be run on batteries (even as a backup). They also run on 12V DC now, necessitating the need to build a custom dual pedalboard power supply - 12V DC for the conventional pedals and +/-15V DC to power the pedal-sized DBX160/163X compressor clone I built (see avatar pic) so I don't have to carry around a rack anymore - and they all fit in the Boss BCB-3 pedalboard. Now THAT, my friend, is some serious OCD!

 

[JimChjones]

...t6seems to me that preamp/DI pedals make sense to be phantom powered from a mixing board, and if there was a way to pass the voltage downstream, that would be cool.

I don't see it should be too non standard. The phantom power/mixer output connection could surely be standard, so wouldn't all you would need be a little snake of power connectors for the other pedals?

The big question in my mind, knowing nothing about the standards, would be what sort of current you could safely take from the average mixer and how many pedals might it be capable of feeding.

My markbass amp has an XLR input: I now wish it delivered phantom power...

 

[desert_rain]

I didn’t read all but I use 20k power bank for my board. 10+ hours playing with compressore(tube inside) without compressore it passes 20+ hours. I have two power banks, one for back up. So I dont need any power source and its cables during gigs. Best part is, there is no ground loop! I am adding my board's photos

 

[abarson]

I don't see it should be too non standard. The phantom power/mixer output connection could surely be standard, so wouldn't all you would need be a little snake of power connectors for the other pedals?
The big question in my mind, knowing nothing about the standards, would be what sort of current you could safely take from the average mixer and how many pedals might it be capable of feeding.
My markbass amp has an XLR input: I now wish it delivered phantom power...

Phantom power from mixers, etc. is almost explicitly available over XLR terminated cables. XLR connectors take up a lot of real estate that many pedals just don't have.
I think your comment about how much current can be drawn from a mixer is definitely relevant.

 

[BadExample]

That's got to be NOS. Who makes magnetic tape anymore?

It looks like several are still at it!

audio recording tape manufacturers at DuckDuckGo

 

[tadawson]

Phantom power from mixers, etc. is almost explicitly available over XLR terminated cables. XLR connectors take up a lot of real estate that many pedals just don't have.
I think your comment about how much current can be drawn from a mixer is definitely relevant.

The connector isn't the issue - you can usea mini XLR, as used on wireless gear. The issue is that 48v phantom only works on balanced lines, which excludes instruments. Go balanced on an instrument, and you have just rendered all existing amps incompatible . . . .

 

[agedhorse]

Maximum useable current for phantom power is 6-8mA, not enough to do much with low noise circuitry.

 

[agedhorse]

The connector isn't the issue - you can usea mini XLR, as used on wireless gear. The issue is that 48v phantom only works on balanced lines, which excludes instruments. Go balanced on an instrument, and you have just rendered all existing amps incompatible . . . .

Phantom power requires much lower impedances than a typical passive instrument pickup.

That said, it absolutely can power onboard circuitry make a high impedance unbalanced signal into a low impedance balanced signal.

 

[tadawson]

Actually, since phantom rides the center tap to ground, it never sees the actual device impedance. And since a passive instrument, by definition, does not need power (no preamp), with a preamp, the pickup impedance isn't really relevant, since only the preamp balanced out would be on the line. (If you are talking about trying to float power down an ubalanced line, your comments make more sense . . )

 

[beans-on-toast]

That's got to be NOS. Who makes magnetic tape anymore?

ATR Magnetics is a big player. A 2500’ roll of 2” tape for a 24 track machine costs about $345. At 30 inches per second, that gives you 16.7 minutes, at 15ips, that’s 33.3 minutes. Media costs add up quickly.

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¼” tape is much more reasonable at $68 for 3600 feet.

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[Downunderwonder]

ATR Magnetics is a big player. A 2500’ roll of 2” tape for a 24 track machine costs about $345. At 30 inches per second, that gives you 16.7 minutes, at 15ips, that’s 33.3 minutes. Media costs add up quickly.

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¼” tape is much more reasonable at $68 for 3600 feet.

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Accent on vintage. I am pretty sure BASF "even the bad times sound good'' tape is out of production.