Question about pedal power and supply

[tadawson]

I don't use batteries on my board, but would refuse to buy a pedal that could not run on them.
Otherwise, if your supply takes a crap, your night is either over or seriously hurt. Myself, I'll just throw in batteries and play on . . .they are very cheap, small, and lightweight insurance for the additional ssingle point of failure that is the power supply. The dumber it is, the more reliable it will be . . . . so unless chemistry suddenly changes, batteries will always work . . .

 

[agedhorse]

Battery power can be cleaner with less chance of induced noise.

A lot of P/S these days are cheap switching types. A regulated one is much better.

You can easily tell the difference, the switching type is light weight while the regulated type makes a good paper weight.

My experience is that most switching supplies are better regulated than older school linear supplies.

 

[Hundred proof]

I use 9v battery power on one pedal it's my go-to gig bag pedal, they (battery's) seem to last multiple 3 hour gigs and are easy to change on the fly. Other than that one exception I use either a Volto rechargeable lithium or a plugin power supply.

 

[MyMusic]

I'm putting together a small board and I have a Cioks DC5 power supply that fits underneath. If I wanted to I could still add my Subway DI/Preamp and still have enough juice.

 

[zontar]

I'm glad to be free of batteries for my pedals--however as I have a bass with an active preamp--I am buying 9 volts again.
So for most of my pedals--I guess that's an option.

Otherwise I use a 1 Spot

 

[StayLow]

I much prefer the battery option.

It's increasingly rare now, so I've been effectively forced to use a power supply most times .... even if it's a rechargeable battery supply.

 

[Mosfed]

There have been a few discussions about pedals and pedalboards lately and it SEEMS as though most players aren't really using batteries anymore but instead are using either a stand alone power supply or a multi-output (and sometimes multi-voltage) power supply integrated into their pedalboard.

These days, how important is it that a pedal operate from a 9V battery (acknowledging that some simply can not) and is it worth paying more for a pedal that can support battery operation (even if it means <20 hours of battery life)?

As a follow-up, how many of you guys would suggest that the days of using 9V batteries is coming to an end?

I'm looking for comments from a player's perspective, one who uses amps and cabinets and not somebody who mostly uses them at home with their studio.

I haven’t used a battery in a pedal in literally years. I have no need for a battery option. I would much rather manufacturers use the space inside more efficiently for things like all top jacks etc.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Interesting and helpful responses!

As a follow-up, how many of you have had a pedal or bass damaged by a leaky battery?

I have had a mess in my bass' battery compartment once.

 

[ArtechnikA]

As a follow-up, how many of you have had a pedal or bass damaged by a leaky battery?

Pedal yes - I think it was rode hard and put up wet - then forgotten for about 10 years.
Not a name-brand alkaline, IIRC...
Bass no -- these days they get long-life lithium and replaced about twice a year.
I'm sure that's too often but neither have I had one fail in service...

 

[ThisBass]

Battery power can be cleaner with less chance of induced noise.

A lot of P/S these days are cheap switching types. A regulated one is much better.

You can easily tell the difference, the switching type is light weight while the regulated type makes a good paper weight.

With battery power there is need to consider current draw of the total schematic design. So take highish resistors just to keep current draw small it will load the total design with noise caused by resistors. Similar issue does happen with OP-amps.
Nope. I can't agree this argumentation that battery power might improve SNR numbers.

edit, current helps to keep SNR numbers small. I don't think it was a good idea to suck lots of current from a 9V battery.

 

[Jim C]

Interesting and helpful responses!

As a follow-up, how many of you have had a pedal or bass damaged by a leaky battery?

Not exactly but:
1 Fluke VOM - caught the leak in time but did have to clean contacts and housing
1 LED Flashlight (not a 9-volt though), completely ruined
1 other thing I can't remember

All with Duracells

I have always preferred the bunny bit really hard to find either in my area or on sale
100% ProCells with no problems for at least 5-10 years
Ikea and other places recycle batteries

 

[SactoBass]

There have been a few discussions about pedals and pedalboards lately and it SEEMS as though most players aren't really using batteries anymore but instead are using either a stand alone power supply or a multi-output (and sometimes multi-voltage) power supply integrated into their pedalboard.

These days, how important is it that a pedal operate from a 9V battery (acknowledging that some simply can not) and is it worth paying more for a pedal that can support battery operation (even if it means <20 hours of battery life)?

As a follow-up, how many of you guys would suggest that the days of using 9V batteries is coming to an end?

I'm looking for comments from a player's perspective, one who uses amps and cabinets and not somebody who mostly uses them at home with their studio.

Thank you for asking this question!

I *NEVER* use batteries in my effects boxes. I always use either a stand alone power supply or a multi-output (and sometimes multi-voltage) power supply.

 

[petrus61]

For me it depends on the type of pedal. If it’s an integral part of my signal chain (such as a compressor, preamp or OD), I may not use, but would appreciate, having a 9v option for emergency situations. Power supplies can fail, adaptors can be forgotten, etc. That said, less batteries is a good thing and if not having one meant a better pedal for it, I’d consider it.

 

[Jim C]

Since I am now using a P/S for the FEA during rehearsal and practice, who makes a one spot type of device with a decent cable?
Preferably replaceable
The idea of that little peice of 20ish guage wire on most of the single spot guys just doesn't make me happy

Also, I haven't heard of any the po sound companies having issues with Procells
Have you had good luck with these Andy?

 

[Tom Bomb]

​

 

[agedhorse]

Since I am now using a P/S for the FEA during rehearsal and practice, who makes a one spot type of device with a decent cable?
Preferably replaceable
The idea of that little peice of 20ish guage wire on most of the single spot guys just doesn't make me happy

Also, I haven't heard of any the po sound companies having issues with Procells
Have you had good luck with these Andy?

The OneSpot supplies seem to work well, looks like 18 gauge on the one I have here (which is PLENTY).
I have seen problems with all battery brands, my experience is mostly with wireless mics and AA's, but just recently had a customer's transmitter (uses a 9V) in the shop too. Often, the mess that's made on the PCB causes reliability problems down the road, that's why I was wondering about bass application experiences.

 

[fourstringburn]

My experience is that most switching supplies are better regulated than older school linear supplies.

Maybe so, but there are cheap chinese made ones that aren't.

I have an external phantom power supply that I use for another application and the cheap switching power supply introduces noise on the signal. This doesn't happen with an older regulated P/S I have.

It just as quiet with a 9v battery but it eats batteries too fast especially if I forget to turn it off.

 

[instrumentlevel]

The idea of that little peice of 20ish guage wire on most of the single spot guys just doesn't make me happy

I have a Godlyke Powerall. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. It has a pretty long 18 gague cable and one of those skinny, sideways wall warts that lets you plug it into a power supply. Works well, and I never worry about the robustness of the cable.

 

[fourstringburn]

With battery power there is need to consider current draw of the total schematic design. So take highish resistors just to keep current draw small it will load the total design with noise caused by resistors. Similar issue does happen with OP-amps.
Nope. I can't agree this argumentation that battery power might improve SNR numbers.

edit, current helps to keep SNR numbers small. I don't think it was a good idea to suck lots of current from a 9V battery.

Batteries are direct current so this power source can be cleaner. After the battery is where SNR/IMD can be introduced depending on design and quality of the components.

Transformers, rectifiers, and inverters can introduce noise when used as a power source then filtering should be used to squelch it.

I never experienced noise with batteries, but I have with other types of P/S.

Batteries are costly over time and inconvenient so that's the trade off.

 

[agedhorse]

Maybe so, but there are cheap chinese made ones that aren't.

I have an external phantom power supply that I use for another application and the cheap switching power supply introduces noise on the signal. This doesn't happen with an older regulated P/S I have.

It just as quiet with a 9v battery but it eats batteries too fast especially if I forget to turn it off.

I suspect this is an opinion based on a poorly designed, poorly built, cheap product rather than the type of product.

Batteries are direct current so this power source can be cleaner. After the battery is where SNR/IMD can be introduced depending on design and quality of the components.

Transformers, rectifiers, and inverters can introduce noise when used as a power source then filtering should be used to squelch it.

I never experienced noise with batteries, but I have with other types of P/S.

Batteries are costly over time and inconvenient so that's the trade off.

His comments are in fact correct. A battery has an internal resistance which can generate noise as current flows, even D.C. In fact, this is one way AC noise can be generated.

The other factor that can contribute to battery related noise is that SOME circuits can become (much) noisier as supply voltage drops. Additionally, some circuits can oscillate on a battery with rising internal resistance.

One way a quality switcher can be quieter than a battery is where the switching frequency is very high, the output impedance is very low and the filtering/regulation is solid. These are common attributes with a quality switching supply.