Question regarding pedal manufacturer

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by Smokeyharrisun, Jul 25, 2019.


  1. 40Hz

    40Hz Supporting Member

    I’ve found virtually every company is going to be very straightforward when it comes to answering technical and feature related questions about their products. And if it’s something they consider proprietary information that they don’t want to share, they’ll come right out and politely say so.

    You might run into the occasional small boutique operation being less upfront about something than you’d like. But you’ll rarely run into that nonsense with established businesses.

    tl:dr - That hasn’t been my experience.
     
  2. BassBrass

    BassBrass

    Jul 6, 2009
    Boston MA
    In the future if you have questions about specific gear but refuse disclose the identity of the gear, post it in your new 'secret knowledge' forum, because your post has caused frustration. We mention brands here All the Time. Every mention produces a unique endorphin that makes us feel good. The feeling I get discussing Keeley compressors (for instance)(smooth quiet) directly relates to how I hear it working. Someone here will have actual experience concerning your secret question. Then it's helpful to questioner and answer-er.
     
  3. DaveAceofBass

    DaveAceofBass Supporting Member

    Feb 20, 2004
    Charlotte, NC
    Perhaps the Whirlwind OC Bass?
     
  4. RichSnyder

    RichSnyder Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2003
    Just tell us what pedal you’re talking about and it’s almost guaranteed that 20 people here have it.
     
    TonyRo, gregmon79, fishdreams and 2 others like this.
  5. Adamixoye

    Adamixoye A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?

    Apr 9, 2012
    Occasional Beta Tester for Confusion Studios, Singular Sound, and Source Audio
    Gain reduction in dB is already a relative measurement.
     
    Jonny5bass and boomertech like this.
  6. DDXdesign

    DDXdesign formerly 'jammadave' Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 15, 2003
    Vegas
    At least knowing the ratio would help with that though - 3:1 yields a 2dB gain reduction for every 3dB that goes in, that sort of thing (forgive me if that math is wrong in practice, just trying to illustrate)
     
    Smokeyharrisun likes this.
  7. Adamixoye

    Adamixoye A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?

    Apr 9, 2012
    Occasional Beta Tester for Confusion Studios, Singular Sound, and Source Audio
    No, you're correct. There are three things I don't understand in this thread:
    • Why the manufacturer is being secretive about the specs
    • Why the OP is being secretive about the manufacturer
    • The claim that specs and metering are too uncertain to be remotely meaningful anyway
     
    Jonny5bass, the_Ryan, TonyRo and 2 others like this.
  8. Smokeyharrisun

    Smokeyharrisun

    Jul 14, 2019
    I don't want to say which pedal I'm referring to because I am not sure my "claim" about them keeping information from me is true or are they actually cannot provide such information. I don"t enjoy trash talking unless I'm 100% positive the other party deserves it ;) my post is more of a question if someone has encountered this in the past or not, and it seems like some indeed have :)
     
  9. DDXdesign

    DDXdesign formerly 'jammadave' Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 15, 2003
    Vegas
    I will absolutely assume they're not hiding anything from you intentionally. I've never found any pedal maker to hide specs in any way unless it was something proprietary and they specifically said it was proprietary (which doesn't happen often, though there was a period of 'gooped' pedal innards there for awhile with people trying to hide components). All the boutique makers I've ever chatted with are very forthright, and a lot of the bigger companies may have not had personnel onhand with the info but I eventually found out whatever it was. Only one has ever had a genuine "you know what, I don't know exactly" and that was when I was asking about the specifications of their footswitches to design a compatible Bullseye Button size for it.
     
    fishdreams likes this.
  10. RichSnyder

    RichSnyder Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2003
    Ok, unfollow.
     
    mmbass21 and SLO Surfer like this.
  11. You shouldn’t have even mentioned it was a compressor. Or a pedal. Or an effect. Or a piece of music gear.

    “Do some companies withhold spec information from the public” would’ve caused less confusion/frustration.

    Every company I’ve ever asked a question of has answered it fully, to the extent they can.
     
  12. Nev375

    Nev375

    Nov 2, 2010
    Missouri
    It's possible they don't even know how to measure it. Some pedal companies are just "borrowing" old tried and true circuits and packaging them in a nice enclosure with high quality parts. You don't even need an associates degree in electronics to do that.
     
    bongomania likes this.
  13. ArtechnikA

    ArtechnikA I endorsed a check once... Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 24, 2013
    SEPA
  14. kesslari

    kesslari Groovin' with the Fusion Cats Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2007
    Santa Cruz Mtns, California
    Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
    It's *possible* that aliens or terrorists abducted the owner and staff and are randomly answering phone calls.

    We can speculate on all sorts of reasons *why*...
    None of which answer the question(s) asked by the OP, which can be read as:
    1. Do manufacturers or retailers ever give misleading answers about their products? Answer: Some do.
    2. Is this particular (unnamed) manufacturer deliberately giving misleading information or avoiding giving an accurate answer? Answer: Impossible to say without knowing what the pedal is.
    3. Is there a reasonable, non-deceptive reason the mfg gave me this answer which did not directly answer my question? Answer: There are all kinds of reasonable reasons, but we don't know for lack of details.

    @Smokeyharrisun , I don't see your post as "trashing the mfg" or calling them deceptive I see it as trying to figure out *if* they're being deceptive. IMO:
    1. If they *are* being deceptive, no problem outing them here. (others here get better informed).
    2. If they're not, you're not *outing* them, and you get an answer to your question. (you get better informed, and others do as well).
     
  15. boomertech

    boomertech Frank Appleton Commercial User

    Apr 8, 2009
    Syracuse, NY
    Designer/Owner of FEA Labs
    Yes, exactly. The dB unit is a relative amplitude size of the output with comparison to the reference input signal. If you were to have a -6dB measurement means that the output has one half of the signal amplitude of the input. If you were to have a 6dB gain means that the output signal is twice the amplitude of the input.

    Units of absolute value like dBu and dBv aren't usually given for a compression or expansion function because it is a "relative measurement", like you have said. A -6dB reduction is 1/2 of the reference whether it be in volts, amps, chickens or any other units of measurements besides power measurements.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
  16. Adamixoye

    Adamixoye A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?

    Apr 9, 2012
    Occasional Beta Tester for Confusion Studios, Singular Sound, and Source Audio
    And as a manufacturer of compressor pedals whose avatar is literally a graph of compression, would you agree that it is entirely possible to put reasonable specs and metering out there (even if not everyone does it correctly)?
     
  17. ArtechnikA

    ArtechnikA I endorsed a check once... Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 24, 2013
    SEPA
    Almost. (Perhaps we are splitting hairs here...)
    Different scales for power and field level...
    So to be pedantic, it makes a difference if we're talking power or Volts...
     
    boomertech and Smokeyharrisun like this.
  18. fishdreams

    fishdreams Supporting Member

    Sep 4, 2010
    Brooklyn, NY
    Endorsing: Arkham Vacuum Tube Amplification and and Martin Keith Guitars
    To answer your question: no, I would not take that as a sign of suspicion at all. It seems to me that the answer you received from the company is correct, especially with compressors: there are countless design variations making compressors sound and behave completely differently from one another (some squash a lot, others hardly do, some give a lot of extra sustain, others don't, some color a lot, others are quite transparent, and all of this by design). The answers you requested wouldn't have made you any the wiser as to if this is the right pedal for your musical purposes.

    Instead of making assumptions, why not just simply ask an open question on the forum what the experiences are with company xyz and/or pedal abc. If something questionable occurred, you'll sure hear about it.
     
    Smokeyharrisun likes this.
  19. Smokeyharrisun

    Smokeyharrisun

    Jul 14, 2019
    Thanks everybody for the answers. I think I heard all I needed to hear now :)
    Cheers
     
  20. boomertech

    boomertech Frank Appleton Commercial User

    Apr 8, 2009
    Syracuse, NY
    Designer/Owner of FEA Labs
    Yes, but there are variable compression ratios around a soft-knee that makes the ratio data a bit more difficult to explain due to the changing ratios within that knee. Usually in this scenario you can use the maximum slope as a description. A simple way to state this would be like... the soft knee portion of the ratio curve covers a range of 1:1 with a maximum of ZZ:1 or to whatever your max ratio setting you have selected with the knob.

    The picture in my avatar is of an extreme soft-knee comp design on steroids, which means that the ratio is completely dependent on the input signal amplitude vs threshold setting. With that comp I would say that it has a maximum compression ratio of XX:1 that is dependent upon the threshold and input signal amplitude... it is due to the curve after threshold. Explaining the characteristics of your compressor can be difficult to put into a clear picture for everyone to understand. Sometimes giving an abundance of information up front can drive some potential customers away, because they might have read on some online forum that a comp that does XYZ does not work well with their ukulele or banjo... when a comp with XYZ capabilities may work perfectly fine for that particular musician.

    But, a true output to input measurement with a dB meter would be accurate, no matter what type of ratio or threshold settings were used.

    -Frank
     
    Giraffe, Adamixoye and bongomania like this.
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
    Jul 28, 2021

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