questions about writing music vs memorizing

[the_hook]

I may be asking this too early since I don't have a bass yet or play nor understand music theory, but I do play drums and jam with a guitarist/singer about 2x a month and I can read and write drum music.

I'm new to drums (a few months) and we've done a mix of some cover songs (Cult, Black Sabbath, Van Halen) and then we'll jam with either the guitar starting something or the drums, and the song may last up to 30 mins. and it will morph in different directions (rock, blues, etc.).

Now, when we pick the cover songs we're going to play at our next session I will listen to them during the week and play them through the headphones and figure out drum patterns and beats that I can actually manage and that aren't too far from what the song plays. What I also have done is, for the parts that I build, I will write out the music on blank music paper and write out any notes to remind me of what to do, when and how.

When I started doing this I began to see music not as another language, but as notation that is really a set of instructions so you can repeat the same drum patterns over and over again when you play. It's at this point too that I stopped being afraid of learning to read music....

At our last recorded jam session I showed my band mate the sheet music I wrote and he laughed, because he doesn't read music, he listens to the song and figures out which notes and chords fit, then we practice it a few times while he sings and then we record it (just for ourselves).

This got me to thinking about how bands go about jamming, then honing a song, then actually committing it to a recording. I've read some articles recently on Bill Ward (drummer) and Geezer Butler (bass) of Black Sabbath. Both admitted that they were basically taught by others, but never learned to read music.

Now you have 2 guys here from one of the most prolific metal bands of the 70's. How the heck did they commit each of their parts to each of their songs to memory?

Another thing I found was when I visit local music stores; there really aren't that many books with drum and bass music. Most books cater more to guitar. I picked up the John Bonham Led Zeppelin drumming music and it was transcribed by someone else. Does this mean Bonham never wrote anything down and this author had to decipher each track to write out his drum music?

I'm not exposed to musicians so I assumed that if you're at the point where you record with a band then you can read and write music. I also believed this because I can’t imagine how people in a studio would communicate when some can read and understand music (and notes) and others that can’t.

I'm sure many of you are in bands, can you elaborate on what your experiences are in these areas?

 

[Ten Four One]

Drummers are more likely to be able to read music than guitarists or bass players.

I doubt Bonham wrote down any/many of his lines. I know John Paul Jones wrote down lines, but mostly because they occurred to him while he was walking about and not near an instrument. Jonesy also played keyboard and did string arrangements for bands such as the Rolling Stones. I think he played the keyboard part on "You really got me" by The Kinks.

The answer to your question is - they just remember it, or they re-learn it by listening to the recordings, or they don't care about playing it 100% accurately the 2nd time - since they wrote it, their variations should be just as legitimate as the first version you heard.

This video may be insightful into how well most musicians can read music. It's a bit of a joke, but it's funny because it's true.

 

[cowsgomoo]

Another thing I found was when I visit local music stores; there really aren't that many books with drum and bass music. Most books cater more to guitar. I picked up the John Bonham Led Zeppelin drumming music and it was transcribed by someone else. Does this mean Bonham never wrote anything down and this author had to decipher each track to write out his drum music?

the vast majority of rock musicians don't have the kind of skills needed to correctly notate their own music... and for someone like John Bonham, writing down his drum parts will have been the last thing on his mind during the 1970's...

in fact most people who transcribe music for books you buy in a music store seem to be only musically semi literate... the chances of getting accurate transcriptions, even if you pay for them, are usually pretty slim...

i'm not dissing rock musicians (i'm one myself), but the chances of finding one who can read and write music at all, let alone to a high standard, are slim... you won't find a single famous rock or metal band, all of whose members who could sight-read the kind of music they play (prove me wrong, someone)

it's just not a necessary set of skills if you want to be a rock musician... even less so if you want to be a rock bass player... just owning a bass and the ability to arrive at the right venue should suffice

 

[megadan]

The vast majority of rock musicians, and most studio engineers, can't read music.
When you're creating original music, you're basically doing it all by ear. You remember your parts via muscle memory - that means playing them over and over again until it's automatic, basically. Bonham didn't write down any of his parts, nor do most musicians.

A band learns a song by rehearsing together and listening to see if it sounds good. Sometimes recording your practices can be a big help with this.

The studio is mostly concerned with the timbre of the music, that is, the tone, and since tone is subjective there's no need for a formal language.

Obviously in some situations this isn't true - for example, orchestras recording in studios that generally do orchestral music, working with composers (people who write music) would work with producers who probably read and write music.

But in the end, most music is about intangible concepts - tone, feeling, emotion, etc. So a formal language is NOT necessary to create or record music.

 

[the_hook]

But in the end, most music is about intangible concepts - tone, feeling, emotion, etc. So a formal language is NOT necessary to create or record music.

Would not Progressive bands like RUSH and Dream Theatre, who tend to be much more techincally oriented (even older bands like Yes, Genesis, etc.) have to write out they're long, operatic songs?

And what happens to the players that can't read or write music, when they do jams with guys slike Jimmy Page, or Clapton, how do they understand what is expected of them?

I tend to agree on the above statement, primarily for the fact that during our long jams I can do drumming that if someone put that same sheet music in front of me I'd be scratching my head over. Yet hearing the guitar sounds move a specific way conjured up certain emotions and my hands and feet moved over the drums to match it, and I could do things I'd have trouble deciphering on paper.

 

[mambo4]

I like to write out original bass lines (or just phrases/riffs) once they are fleshed out a bit, if only to help solidify my understanding of the rhythm.

Before I learned to do this, I would often feel a bit lost if my memory gave out...things would slip by an eight/sixteenth note or some such, and I could only tell it didn't "feel" right, without any ability to analyze what was wrong (or even if it was me)

But really that's just to remind me accurately, for performance it's all memorization.

 

[Non Serviam]

And what happens to the players that can't read or write music, when they do jams with guys slike Jimmy Page, or Clapton, how do they understand what is expected of them?

People who've got any business jamming with Page or Clapton just know what's expected of them. They hear a chord, and the right bass note just jumps out of their fingers; their brain's hardly involved in the process at all.

People who're just starting can watch a guitarist's fingers. If you've got a four-string bass that's in tune, then the four strings of your bass are exactly one octave lower than the deepest four strings of the guitar--so if a guitarist's playing on the fifth fret of the bottom string, then a beginner can just play on the fifth fret of the bottom string, and bingo, you have bass. Not very inspired bass, but it works and it's in tune.

People with a bit more practice might see the guitarist's fingers on the fifth fret of the bottom string and think "Oh, he's playing A" and play something in A themselves.

When you're jamming with someone you don't know, a lot of it's about where you stand--i.e. make sure you can see the guitarist's fingers and make sure the drummer can see yours. (Decent drummers usually like to watch the bass player.)

 

[Audiophage]

Would not Progressive bands like RUSH and Dream Theatre, who tend to be much more techincally oriented (even older bands like Yes, Genesis, etc.) have to write out they're long, operatic songs?

I don't know about operatic, or they're, but Jordan Rudess has a digital display attached to his keyboard for standard notation which he uses to remind himself of his parts.

It's so different when you're the one who actually wrote a song when it comes to memorization. You've had to put a significant amount of thought into it, you know what I mean?

 

[Martin Bormann]

Would not Progressive bands like RUSH and Dream Theatre, who tend to be much more techincally oriented (even older bands like Yes, Genesis, etc.) have to write out they're long, operatic songs?

And what happens to the players that can't read or write music, when they do jams with guys slike Jimmy Page, or Clapton, how do they understand what is expected of them?

I tend to agree on the above statement, primarily for the fact that during our long jams I can do drumming that if someone put that same sheet music in front of me I'd be scratching my head over. Yet hearing the guitar sounds move a specific way conjured up certain emotions and my hands and feet moved over the drums to match it, and I could do things I'd have trouble deciphering on paper.

Typically, I normally write down all my musical ideas on manuscript paper. I do this for two reasons #1, it allows me to construct more complex ideas and #2, it doesn't matter how difficult or simple of an idea it is, give me a week and I won't remember it. And typically I just at any given time just come up with a phrase and sometimes just a motif. It's usually later on that I mix and match them together to come up with a completed idea. I'll usually practice them all individually over time and learn to play them and recall them from memory so I can use them during "jam sessions."

I do understand most people in the "rock 'n roll" world suffer from "music dyslexia" (borrowed from Metalocalypse). But ultimately they really for the most part memorize a bunch of motifs in practice then at jams, they recall them on the fly. Most won't even realise that they are doing that, but that's improv.

 

[Ten Four One]

And what happens to the players that can't read or write music, when they do jams with guys slike Jimmy Page, or Clapton, how do they understand what is expected of them?

The same thing that happens to people who can't read or write English when they're put in an improv comedy situation with Will Farrel and Jim Carey... they *don't* read, but otherwise they get on just fine.