Questions on the SVT-7 Pro

[dirtychinchilla]

Mentioned it in another thread, but I've just got hold of one of these, and I'm pretty excited.

Questions:

1. I've not owned any sort of valve amp before. I know they normally have a sort of two stage ON process, which involves warming up the tubes, and you have to wait a bit before you turn it off as well. This being a hybrid with only a single valve, do I need to do this?
2. It does the tube thing I've been wanting, but it seems to really apply itself to the B and E strings and then really drops off a cliff. Is there any way to sort of engage it for all the strings? I know it's not an on/off thing, but maybe my frequency settings don't quite do it?
   
3. Can you get a grind out of it?

Thanks in advance,

dirtychinchilla

 

[Geri O]

Mentioned it in another thread, but I've just got hold of one of these, and I'm pretty excited.

Questions:

1. I've not owned any sort of valve amp before. I know they normally have a sort of two stage ON process, which involves warming up the tubes, and you have to wait a bit before you turn it off as well. This being a hybrid with only a single valve, do I need to do this?
2. It does the tube thing I've been wanting, but it seems to really apply itself to the B and E strings and then really drops off a cliff. Is there any way to sort of engage it for all the strings? I know it's not an on/off thing, but maybe my frequency settings don't quite do it?
   
3. Can you get a grind out of it?

Thanks in advance,

dirtychinchilla

My experiences with an SVT7 when I owned one.

Power it up, wait a minute or so, good to go. No power-down procedure necessary.

As for the E and A strings, there shouldn’t be an unevenness as you describe. There’s no selection options per se for the individual strings. I’d look at my bass’s setup, the bass’s EQ, if there is one, perhaps what you are listening to. Or perhaps your expectations of what that “tube thing” is supposed to sound like.

Good luck!

 

[dirtychinchilla]

My experiences with an SVT7 when I owned one.

Power it up, wait a minute or so, good to go. No power-down procedure necessary.

As for the E and A strings, there shouldn’t be an unevenness as you describe. There’s no selection options per se for the individual strings. I’d look at my bass’s setup, the bass’s EQ, if there is one, perhaps what you are listening to. Or perhaps your expectations of what that “tube thing” is supposed to sound like.

Good luck!

Thanks for that. I tend to power up/down from an extension lead, so it sounds like maybe that would be OK but I do think I'll start hitting the switch, then kill the power just to be safe.

With regards to the strings, I do wonder if my pickups are too high on the bass side (or too low on the treble side) as I often feel like there's more emphasis on the bass. But their volume outputs seem relatively similar, so I struggle to believe they're completely out.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I used the new amp at rehearsal last night and it sounded great. I boosted the input gain for a couple of songs that needed a tube-y tone and the drummer actually complimented it!

New question:

I use IEMs outside of the house, so I was using the DI on the amp. Without a cab sim though, fuzz in particular didn't sound great. I always DI from my amp at gigs, which makes me think I need a cab sim. Is this the right approach? I don't want to skip the amp's preamp, so DIing from my pedals isn't an option.

Would i need to get a cab sim to go on the DI?

 

[Geri O]

Would i need to get a cab sim to go on the DI?

Glad to hear you liked the amp at rehearsal.

I would think not when using that SVT7 line out, but it’s best to just try it and see what you think.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Glad to hear you liked the amp at rehearsal.

I would think not when using that SVT7 line out, but it’s best to just try it and see what you think.

I've always just found that DIs don't do fuzz well

 

[Geri O]

I've always just found that DIs don't do fuzz well

Definitely need to have the fuzz set up another way. The DI just converts the signal to a low-impedance signal that the mixing co some can use.

And yes, the DI can affect the fuzz tone. If you use a DI, it’s best to work with the tone with the entire signal chain in place, if possible.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Definitely need to have the fuzz set up another way. The DI just converts the signal to a low-impedance signal that the mixing co some can use.

And yes, the DI can affect the fuzz tone. If you use a DI, it’s best to work with the tone with the entire signal chain in place, if possible.

As far as I understand what you’re saying, I am working with the entire chain in place. The fuzz is part of my board, and I go out of the pedal preamp into the SVT. DI is then after the amp’s preamp.

I’m really not sure how to resolve the fuzz issue though. I suppose the reality is that for most of our gigs, my bass isn’t coming out of the PA. It’s just DI’d for my IEMs and the audience hears my cab, so maybe it’s tolerable.

My previous amp was a Darkglass, which had a cab sim on the DI so it always sounded “right.”

 

[Geri O]

My previous amp was a Darkglass, which had a cab sim on the DI so it always sounded “right.”

Yes, that’s it.

In that case, a cab sim may be the way for you to go.

That’s about all I can offer. I don’t do fuzz or overdrive of any kind on the tones I use. My gigs just don’t call for that kind of tone.

I do have a fair bit of experience with the SVT Pro 7. It’s a great amp, I just went another direction with my amps. That’s kinda the angle I was coming from with my comments.

Good luck with getting the tone you are looking for! And cheers!

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Yes, that’s it.

In that case, a cab sim may be the way for you to go.

That’s about all I can offer. I don’t do fuzz or overdrive of any kind on the tones I use. My gigs just don’t call for that kind of tone.

I do have a fair bit of experience with the SVT Pro 7. It’s a great amp, I just went another direction with my amps. That’s kinda the angle I was coming from with my comments.

Good luck with getting the tone you are looking for! And cheers!

Thank you. It's a strange situation and honestly, it's making me question my choice of amp. If it has no cab sim and I'm going to use fuzz, it's puts me in quite a strange situation. I did wonder whether a sound guy could put on a cab sim from the desk, but that's far beyond my understanding.

I really like the amp. It sounds great, although the cooling fan is ridiculously loud - I've bought a PC fan to replace it in the hope it'll make a difference.

I appreciate your help...now to work out the fuzz issue.

 

[MARVIN MECKLER]

Thank you. It's a strange situation and honestly, it's making me question my choice of amp. If it has no cab sim and I'm going to use fuzz, it's puts me in quite a strange situation. I did wonder whether a sound guy could put on a cab sim from the desk, but that's far beyond my understanding.

I really like the amp. It sounds great, although the cooling fan is ridiculously loud - I've bought a PC fan to replace it in the hope it'll make a difference.

I appreciate your help...now to work out the fuzz issue.

Fuzz through a non-frequency compensated direct out is the same as fuzz through a tweeter; it sounds like absolute @$$.

Tube amp overdrive through a sizzly tweeter is about the worst sound you can imagine. That's why Ampeg fridges are so wooly; they naturally filter out the harsh spiky fizz.

That's why guitarists don't play through tweeters or usually go direct unless they have a cab sim. The cab is part of the tone.

The only solutions are to either mic the cab, or run your direct out through some sort of cab simulator. Or, do like we did in the old days and run your direct out through a graphic eq and tailor your own cabinet-simulated sound that way. Eq it to your exact liking.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Fuzz through a non-frequency compensated direct out is the same as fuzz through a tweeter; it sounds like absolute @$$.

Tube amp overdrive through a sizzly tweeter is about the worst sound you can imagine. That's why Ampeg fridges are so wooly; they naturally filter out the harsh spiky fizz.

That's why guitarists don't play through tweeters or usually go direct unless they have a cab sim. The cab is part of the tone.

The only solutions are to either mic the cab, or run your direct out through some sort of cab simulator. Or, do like we did in the old days and run your direct out through a graphic eq and tailor your own cabinet-simulated sound that way. Eq it to your exact liking.

Thanks for that. I'm supposed to be recording six tracks with my band next week. Fuzz probably won't come into it, but I would imagine that the guy will be able to apply a cab sim in Logic or Pro Tools or whatever he's using.

I'm sort of concluding not to worry about it too much. I just didn't realise this would be a capability I lost when I sold the Darkglass.

In reality, I probably play a gig a month of of those 12 a year, probably two involve a FOH setup that my bass is pumped out of. I'm sure that for those two gigs, I could have my cab miked.

 

[MARVIN MECKLER]

Thanks for that. I'm supposed to be recording six tracks with my band next week. Fuzz probably won't come into it, but I would imagine that the guy will be able to apply a cab sim in Logic or Pro Tools or whatever he's using.

I'm sort of concluding not to worry about it too much. I just didn't realise this would be a capability I lost when I sold the Darkglass.

In reality, I probably play a gig a month of of those 12 a year, probably two involve a FOH setup that my bass is pumped out of. I'm sure that for those two gigs, I could have my cab miked.

Yep, you are on the right track. If you want your exact sound up front, mic the cab. Like guitarists do. Old school.

You have to realize, the SVT-7 is an old, old design. Things younger people take for granted that are commonplace now (such as built-in cab simulation) were unheard of back in the day. We were lucky if our amps had a direct or line-out. And, even then, most weren't frequency compensated. And, when they were, they just sort of haphazardly rolled off the high end. You'd ALWAYS have to heavily eq line outs / direct outs back then. And usually, they still sounded waaaaay worse than simply throwing a mic in front of a cab. ESPECIALLY for distorted overdrive sounds.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Yep, you are on the right track. If you want your exact sound up front, mic the cab. Like guitarists do. Old school.

You have to realize, the SVT-7 is an old, old design. Things younger people take for granted that are commonplace now (such as built-in cab simulation) were unheard of back in the day. We were lucky if our amps had a direct or line-out. And, even then, most weren't frequency compensated. And, when they were, they just sort of haphazardly rolled off the high end. You'd ALWAYS have to heavily eq line outs / direct outs back then. And usually, they still sounded waaaaay worse than simply throwing a mic in front of a cab. ESPECIALLY for distorted overdrive sounds.

Hah! Well I'm a young man that's bought an old design. I really like the amp though. Is it the ultimate amp for me? Maybe not, but it's getting close.

Practically, then, if I get the high end turned down on the desk, I should be able to make the fuzz sound a bit healthier?

I'm just looking at picking up an SM57 and miking it now.

 

[paskisti]

Hah! Well I'm a young man that's bought an old design. I really like the amp though. Is it the ultimate amp for me? Maybe not, but it's getting close.

Practically, then, if I get the high end turned down on the desk, I should be able to make the fuzz sound a bit healthier?

I'm just looking at picking up an SM57 and miking it now.

Not many modern amps have a real software based cab sim in DI. Easiest way is to add cab sim pedal (Mooer Radar, Two Notes cab M+, Darkglass Elements) to your signal chain. Mooer does not have DI out so you need to work with 1/4" out, but Two Notes and Darkglass have DI out. All of them need 1/4" input signal so you must use preamp out signal from 7 pro.

Cabinet simulation is not the same as close miking the cab, because close miking does not sound like dual miking of cab simulation (close + room). If you want to go IEM, get the cab sim pedal, cab miking is not the best stand alone sound for IEM and needs to be blended with non simulated DI sound for full frequency bandwidth.

 

[MARVIN MECKLER]

Practically, then, if I get the high end turned down on the desk, I should be able to make the fuzz sound a bit healthier?

Um, it's usually not as simple as just turning down the treble, especially with fuzzy distorted sounds.

Making a full-frequency direct signal sound like a cab is much more involved than that.

I'd just mic it and be done with it. That way, you know the sound guy can't really mess it up as much. And, the sound of your entire amp will be going through the PA.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Not many modern amps have a real software based cab sim in DI. Easiest way is to add cab sim pedal (Mooer Radar, Two Notes cab M+, Darkglass Elements) to your signal chain. Mooer does not have DI out so you need to work with 1/4" out, but Two Notes and Darkglass have DI out. All of them need 1/4" input signal so you must use preamp out signal from 7 pro.

Cabinet simulation is not the same as close miking the cab, because close miking does not sound like dual miking of cab simulation (close + room). If you want to go IEM, get the cab sim pedal, cab miking is not the best stand alone sound for IEM and needs to be blended with non simulated DI sound for full frequency bandwidth.

I just don't want to do any of that because I want my preamp to be in the equation. If I use a mic, though, I should get exactly what everyone else is hearing.

Um, it's usually not as simple as just turning down the treble, especially with fuzzy distorted sounds.

Making a full-frequency direct signal sound like a cab is much more involved than that.

I'd just mic it and be done with it. That way, you know the sound guy can't really mess it up as much. And, the sound of your entire amp will be going through the PA.

I've found an SM57 that I'm going to pick up for £50 over the weekend. Should be good

 

[paskisti]

I just don't want to do any of that because I want my preamp to be in the equation. If I use a mic, though, I should get exactly what everyone else is hearing.



I've found an SM57 that I'm going to pick up for £50 over the weekend. Should be good

Unfortunately close miking a cab is not what you or others are hearing. Usually ear is not in distance of 10cm from the speaker, and room will make reflections and port plays its part if ported cab. That's why cab sims are made typically by recording both close miking and room with condenser microphone. This is not always the case but most quality cab sims are made by using at least two mics where one is positioned not too close to record what ear is hearing.

Believe me, if you want IEM sound being even close what you hear from the cab you really need a cab sim, or your cab must be in isolated room and miked with multiple mics.

Your preamp will be in equation when you take the signal out from "preamp out" into cab sim unit. Or did I miss something?

By the way, when I used Ampeg type 810 cab, I never found 810 cab sim being as satisfied as some other cab sims. Now I have Markbass 104HF cab and good, similar cab sim is surprisingly Shift Line Mesa RR215 cab sim, and it's free. Don't look for ones your cab model is, find model giving you the best and close enough sound.

P.S. I tried close miking some of my cabs and never got really good result. Note that SM57 really cuts the low end and you will be loosing quite a lot of your sound.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Unfortunately close miking a cab is not what you or others are hearing. Usually ear is not in distance of 10cm from the speaker, and room will make reflections and port plays its part if ported cab. That's why cab sims are made typically by recording both close miking and room with condenser microphone. This is not always the case but most quality cab sims are made by using at least two mics where one is positioned not too close to record what ear is hearing.

Believe me, if you want IEM sound being even close what you hear from the cab you really need a cab sim, or your cab must be in isolated room and miked with multiple mics.

Your preamp will be in equation when you take the signal out from "preamp out" into cab sim unit. Or did I miss something?

By the way, when I used Ampeg type 810 cab, I never found 810 cab sim being as satisfied as some other cab sims. Now I have Markbass 104HF cab and good, similar cab sim is surprisingly Shift Line Mesa RR215 cab sim, and it's free. Don't look for ones your cab model is, find model giving you the best and close enough sound.

P.S. I tried close miking some of my cabs and never got really good result. Note that SM57 really cuts the low end and you will be loosing quite a lot of your sound.

Thanks for that. I'm not an expert, but a bit of Googling suggests that the frequency response of the Shure SM57 goes down to 40 Hz, and a bass typically has a frequency range at the bottom end of 40 Hz, although a 5-string goes down to 30 Hz....I play a 5-string so I can see that it might not be great.

I'm highly unlike to use a cab sim unless I'm recording, but I appreciate what you're saying regarding IEMs. I can live with that - it'll be better than the hissy crackly sound I get from the DI into my ears right now. I have no preference for cabs so don't worry, when recording I'll check out various ones. I think this whole question really only applies to a live scenario, in which case I think my bass cab might actually be loud enough for it not to matter. Certainly the amp goes to 1000 W if I want it, and mostly play pubs. If not, we would have a sound guy and he'd hopefully have a more suitable mic.

 

[paskisti]

Thanks for that. I'm not an expert, but a bit of Googling suggests that the frequency response of the Shure SM57 goes down to 40 Hz, and a bass typically has a frequency range at the bottom end of 40 Hz, although a 5-string goes down to 30 Hz....I play a 5-string so I can see that it might not be great.

I'm highly unlike to use a cab sim unless I'm recording, but I appreciate what you're saying regarding IEMs. I can live with that - it'll be better than the hissy crackly sound I get from the DI into my ears right now. I have no preference for cabs so don't worry, when recording I'll check out various ones. I think this whole question really only applies to a live scenario, in which case I think my bass cab might actually be loud enough for it not to matter. Certainly the amp goes to 1000 W if I want it, and mostly play pubs. If not, we would have a sound guy and he'd hopefully have a more suitable mic.

It is not just the used single mic and its frequency response. Your cab does not sound the same for your ears as when mic records it in 10cm. Miked cab can sound similar only when used multiple different type mics but noisy stage doesn't allow that. That's why good compromise in live is using e.g. SM57 (flat) or Beta 52 (scooped) and mixing it with DI sound.

In studio you only need clean DI and your favorite preamp sound, rest can be done afterwards (reamping, cab sim, plugins etc).

Edit: Edited a lot.