Quilter Bass Block

[wagdog]

I agree 100% with Pat's logic. I would love to live in that world where we control our destiny but, unfortunately, that's not the world we bassist's live in. We are often shoved into FOH's and left to the mercy of the sound person where our stage rigs end up being glorified monitors. I suspect Pat's perspective is that of a guitarist.

 

[Brad Johnson]

You bring up a good point. Set Master for the cab, use gain for any volume change. Then the Di output is constant.

Pretty sure it's not.

 

[Brad Johnson]

yeah, i could see the argument for making that DI "post" so the amp tone makes it into the PA, but we should still be able to have it not be changed by the amp volume, that's just weird.

still, my impression of the bassblock is that it would mostly be serving as the on-stage power amp anyway, and whatever preamp feeds it would be feeding FOH separately anyway.

I would think that most would use it as an integrated amp. Paying that price and bypassing a very nice preamp will likely not be the norm.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I believe you are correct and the DI is post EQ so as to get the same amp flavor in the DI as on stage. For me, I am one of those who sets everything to start with and then never touches it for the rest of the of the gig. But for those who do use different volumes and tones the soundman would have to ride the bass input from a DI of the amp. A good soundman can do this. Easily solved with the addition of a dedicated DI box. I think if one looks at the difference in price point of this amp versus the amps that do have the added DI features he will see those amps are at a higher price point. The expense of an added DI can either be small or large enough to make this difference a cost consideration - it depends on what one wants/needs.

These aren't added features in this price range... they're pretty normal. Like mute buttons.

 

[TomB]

I believe you are correct and the DI is post EQ so as to get the same amp flavor in the DI as on stage. For me, I am one of those who sets everything to start with and then never touches it for the rest of the of the gig. But for those who do use different volumes and tones the soundman would have to ride the bass input from a DI of the amp. A good soundman can do this. Easily solved with the addition of a dedicated DI box. I think if one looks at the difference in price point of this amp versus the amps that do have the added DI features he will see those amps are at a higher price point. The expense of an added DI can either be small or large enough to make this difference a cost consideration - it depends on what one wants/needs.

I'm confused ! Isn't the question under discussion where the DI lies in the signal path, not what DI controls are included?

But since it was mentioned, a number of similar or lower-priced micro amps include pre/post DI switches and ground lift, and their DI's are not tied to the master volume (not to be confused with "line out"). I'm not saying they're superior products, just that those features don't need to break the bank.

Yes, a separate DI would solve the problem (it was mentioned earlier) and most sound techs have plenty of them handy (of varying quality, to be sure). Many players will also carry a favorite one with them. But for quite a few of us, carrying a lot of extra dedicated outboard gear defeats one important feature of going micro in the first place.

The BB800 seems well-loved already and it seems to be a wonderful piece of gear for some players. It just doesn't meet all players' requirements. I suspect it could for very little price difference (but here I'm talking through my hat since I don't really know). ...just offering some feedback for Quilter to think about.

 

[Interceptor]

I've been on the other side - I mixed audio for live television and would have been pretty grumpy mixing a band with anybody who jacked their levels at all post sound check.

Personally, I carry a traditional DI if I'm going to need one. Manufacturers could abandon DI and effects loops as far as I'm concerned. I would be happy with a volume knob, a tilt eq like a Thunderfunk and one speakon out. I'm also sure I'm all alone with that thinking. I'm adding a Quilter to my amp pile soon.

 

[triode6L6a]

So, I absolutely loved this unit. It's small and light and the knobs feel just right, and the tone is right up there among the best....... but I'm sorry to report that I've had two failures in a row, and that's got me rethinking things.

I got the first one about a month ago, and it was great at first. I used it for a week of jamming and was looking forward to doing my first gig with it, but noticed that it had developed some excessive hiss. It was strange, it was fine when I'd first turn it on, with just a tiny bit of background hiss, only audible if you got close and listened for it, but after few minutes it would start making a little crackling sound and then the hiss would increase to where it was clearly audible, well above the fan. It was totally independent of both the gain and volume controls, and you couldn't hear it through the headphone jack, which led me to believe it was in the output amp section.

It was such that I wouldn't notice it while playing, but I could tell it wasn't "normal", so I returned it for an exchange. Just got the new one an hour ago, and dagnabit, it's dead as a door nail. Not a sign of any kind of damage to the box, and I had it shipped 3 day just to make sure it had minimum time in transit, so I just don't know what to think at this point.

And yes, I've tried 3 different power cords and 3 different outlets, all that work with other gear. No rattles, nothing sounds loose... that's the odd thing, this little amp is built like a tank, so I'm REALLY surprised and disappointed by this : (

Anyway, I had hoped the first one was just a fluke, because I've bought enough electronic gear on-line over the years that I've come to expect some inevitable returns, but two in a row bothers me.

 

[CharlieC]

So, I absolutely loved this unit. It's small and light and the knobs feel just right, and the tone is right up there among the best....... but I'm sorry to report that I've had two failures in a row, and that's got me rethinking things.

I got the first one about a month ago, and it was great at first. I used it for a week of jamming and was looking forward to doing my first gig with it, but noticed that it had developed some excessive hiss. It was strange, it was fine when I'd first turn it on, with just a tiny bit of background hiss, only audible if you got close and listened for it, but after few minutes it would start making a little crackling sound and then the hiss would increase to where it was clearly audible, well above the fan. It was totally independent of both the gain and volume controls, and you couldn't hear it through the headphone jack, which led me to believe it was in the output amp section.

It was such that I wouldn't notice it while playing, but I could tell it wasn't "normal", so I returned it for an exchange. Just got the new one an hour ago, and dagnabit, it's dead as a door nail. Not a sign of any kind of damage to the box, and I had it shipped 3 day just to make sure it had minimum time in transit, so I just don't know what to think at this point.

And yes, I've tried 3 different power cords and 3 different outlets, all that work with other gear. No rattles, nothing sounds loose... that's the odd thing, this little amp is built like a tank, so I'm REALLY surprised and disappointed by this : (

Anyway, I had hoped the first one was just a fluke, because I've bought enough electronic gear on-line over the years that I've come to expect some inevitable returns, but two in a row bothers me.

This is unbelievable, my condolences!

Please engage Quilter Labs immediately, perhaps even Pat himself who you have corresponded with recently.

This will no doubt be rectified. Please do keep us posted along the way!

 

[John D Harris]

As with most things, I've found it's often better to go directly to the source, so I asked Mr. Quilter about his choice of having the XLR output linked to the Master Control, and he was kind enough to not only thoroughly explain his reasoning, but gave me permission to share it with my fellow TBers as well:

From: Pat Quilter
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 4:44 PM
Subject: RE: Bass Block 800 Technical Question

Hello Derek
I visualized the Line Out as driving an external amplifier/speaker or even a powered speaker. Like any extension speaker, I assumed it would be desirable for its volume to change along with the volume settings on the Bass Block.

Philosophically, I am stuck in the old-school theory that performing musicians are the creators of their experience and should have complete control over their sound. For that reason, all output feeds on our products reflect the amplifier’s control settings. I have become aware that sound engineers might prefer a fixed send to decouple what the stage hears and what the audience hears. I can’t argue with this in the limited cases where the audio mixer is a creative member of the band team, or at least an experienced professional with trustworthy musical judgment, but only a small percentage of our user base enjoys such competent help. The bands I go to see fill the club with the output from their own bass amp, or supplement it thru their own PA which is not actively monitored, so they need the signal chain to respond to their amp settings. Even on a “real” stage, the adjustments a bass player might make for stage level won’t exceed the engineer’s ability to compensate, who is probably riding the mix anyway. Anyway, “that’s my story and I’m sticking to it”.

You are welcome to share this.
Best regards
Pat Q


From: Derek Dean
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Bass Block 800 Technical Question

Howdy,
We've been having quite a bit of discussion on Talkbass.com about the reason behind having the XLR line out tied directly to the Master Volume Control, so I figured I'd go directly to the source and see if you wouldn't mind telling us the thinking behind this design decision.

As I mentioned last time I contacted you, I'd also like permission to publish your answer on Talkbass.com.

As a side note, I'd like to thank you for this wonderfully brilliant amp. It's the first class D amp that has given me the full tone of my bass. Just a wonderful gift for us bass players.
Sincerely,
Derek Dean

Thank you very much, Derek for reaching out to Da Man & then sharing the info with us!

 

[John D Harris]

...

From: Pat Quilter
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 4:44 PM
Subject: RE: Bass Block 800 Technical Question

Hello Derek
I visualized the Line Out as driving an external amplifier/speaker or even a powered speaker. Like any extension speaker, I assumed it would be desirable for its volume to change along with the volume settings on the Bass Block.

...

I'm sure there are bass players out there who do this, but surely less than around 5%.
IMO, Pat Q should strongly reconsider!
Super Bummer about the 2 bad units in a row!
This was already back-burnered for me b/c of the DI circuitry, now even more so.
REALLY a shame as it does sound like it would be a winner otherwise!

 

[triode6L6a]

Well, now that I've had a chance to calm down a bit..... I mean it's not like it's the end of the world...... I'm probably still going to give it another go. That's how much I like the concept behind this amp.

Those of you who have this amp know what a rock solid piece of kit it is, and you know how great it sounds too. And of all the amps I've tested it's the one the gives me the sound I'm looking for.

The place I'm dealing with has been great. It hasn't cost me anything except time, and I've got a funny feeling that just maybe the 3rd time IS the charm : )

 

[bebass]

Pretty sure it's not.

Yes, sorry, posted before coffee . I did post above and correct this already.

These aren't added features in this price range... they're pretty normal. Like mute buttons.

I was comparing price point to other 2016 released 750-900 w amps. The Quilter is at a different price point than the ones I have seen. There are certainly many amps out there at all sorts of price points.

I'm confused ! Isn't the question under discussion where the DI lies in the signal path, not what DI controls are included?

But since it was mentioned, a number of similar or lower-priced micro amps include pre/post DI switches and ground lift, and their DI's are not tied to the master volume (not to be confused with "line out"). I'm not saying they're superior products, just that those features don't need to break the bank.

Yes, a separate DI would solve the problem (it was mentioned earlier) and most sound techs have plenty of them handy (of varying quality, to be sure). Many players will also carry a favorite one with them. But for quite a few of us, carrying a lot of extra dedicated outboard gear defeats one important feature of going micro in the first place.

The BB800 seems well-loved already and it seems to be a wonderful piece of gear for some players. It just doesn't meet all players' requirements. I suspect it could for very little price difference (but here I'm talking through my hat since I don't really know). ...just offering some feedback for Quilter to think about.

I think the discussion has always been about the DI and features, with an emphasis the last few pages on the post eq/pre eq feature or lack of feature depending on how one looks at it. The majority of sound guys carry DIs. As a pro sound person I always had more than one.

I've been on the other side - I mixed audio for live television and would have been pretty grumpy mixing a band with anybody who jacked their levels at all post sound check.

Personally, I carry a traditional DI if I'm going to need one. Manufacturers could abandon DI and effects loops as far as I'm concerned. I would be happy with a volume knob, a tilt eq like a Thunderfunk and one speakon out. I'm also sure I'm all alone with that thinking. I'm adding a Quilter to my amp pile soon.

Yes, the majority of sound guys carry DIs. I have never worked with one who didn't. Early in my career I got in an argument with a sound guy who wanted to use one he had that he was familiar with and I wanted to use mine. He said let's compare. He was correct as his had a better sound. But that was way many years ago.

 

[staccatogrowl]

Early in my career I got in an argument with a sound guy who wanted to use one he had that he was familiar with and I wanted to use mine. He said let's compare. He was correct as his had a better sound.

As a bassist, I always defer to the sound person at FOH. That person has the total band sound in their control, and is typically multi tasking solutions to multiple mix problems. Anything that I can do to make their job easier is my goal.

If they want to try a DI in my arsenal I typically have two or three that work great in my experience. If they have a tried and true preference I always go with that, no matter what. I will do whatever it takes to avoid being the problem in the mix. Why? The easiest way to solve a problematic element/person is to minimize it/them. As I want to be present in the mix, as well as learn as much as I can from my teammates, I cooperate.

Working as a FOH op in my past has lead to great empathy for the person that sculpts overall band sound and tone at the console. I want to help solve the puzzle, not add to it. And, carrying a couple of standalone DIs does not adversely affect my load-in ease one bit. I typically carry a passive DI, an active DI, and a tube-driven DI in my gig bag, as well as my small class-D head with onboard DI. Sound folks are often curious about my gear and want to try some different combinations if they have the time. Otherwise, they go with what they know, which is cool by me.

The main point of all of this is that I could easily find a way to make the Quilter work in my setup. I don't need a redesign to make that happen. Technology is like a bus. If you need the ride now, take the bus that shows up. Otherwise, stand at the bus stop for 6-12 mos awaiting the new and improved model.

 

[Agosix]

Does any one have an issue with a very mild scratchy static sound near the speaker that comes and goes with the BB 800? It's not fan noise but maybe static or RF interference.

 

[CharlieC]

The BB800 has what others have mentioned in passing as "white noise": it is a constant operating hiss that is accentuated if one has a tweeter in their cabinet. In live band settings it is completely undetectable and not an issue for me, but it is noticeable in quiet environments when one is not playing.

 

[Agosix]

The BB800 has what others have mentioned in passing as "white noise": it is a constant operating hiss that is accentuated if one has a tweeter in their cabinet. In live band settings it is completely undetectable and not an issue for me, but it is noticeable in quiet environments when one is not playing.

It seems what you describe is exactly it. I tried switching cables and comes back in 5 minutes.

 

[John D Harris]

Well, now that I've had a chance to calm down a bit..... I mean it's not like it's the end of the world...... I'm probably still going to give it another go. That's how much I like the concept behind this amp.

Those of you who have this amp know what a rock solid piece of kit it is, and you know how great it sounds too. And of all the amps I've tested it's the one the gives me the sound I'm looking for.

The place I'm dealing with has been great. It hasn't cost me anything except time, and I've got a funny feeling that just maybe the 3rd time IS the charm : )

Hope so - hang in there!

 

[Turn Em Loose]

 

[Brad Johnson]

My Burgera Veyron has a gain and a master that isn't tied to the signal I send to FOH. It's $399.

Once I set the output level from my BB800's DI to the house it would be nice to have my stage level be independent of that. Since I'm going for a clean sound the master isn't as useful as it could be for me. No, I don't want to buy and carry a separate DI... never needed one before.

Anyone who sees this as complaining is missing the point.

 

[John D Harris]

...
The main point of all of this is that I could easily find a way to make the Quilter work in my setup. I don't need a redesign to make that happen. Technology is like a bus. If you need the ride now, take the bus that shows up. Otherwise, stand at the bus stop for 6-12 mos awaiting the new and improved model.

Happy for you!
Of there's plenty of buses, so I am not standing waiting at the bus stop.
Quilter can update it or not - totally up to him.
Just thought he might want to get some different perspectives on issues SOME bassists have with a ~feature~ he apparently thinks is helpful to SOME bassists - I strongly suspect the 1st 'SOME' group is larger that the 2nd 'SOME' group.
IMO, if he updated the DI to be independent of the Master control, the BB800 would appeal to more customers.
I'm on a bus already, just not this bus.
If the update comes & the reliability is there, I will strongly consider changing buses!