Ok, so if I had a Reddi. Could I come out of the xlr into BB800 via the line in and still be able to use the Reddi affected signal out of xlr out?
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You technically could, but then you'd have to use the Line out on the Bass Block. Why not use the "Thru" jack on the REDDI to go to the amp and the XLR out on the DI out to go to the PA?
- Sep 3, 2006
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- 6,117
- Disclosures
- Authorized dealer for Dingwall, Genzler, Phil Jones Bass, Cort, Traynor, Yorkville Sound
You bring up a good point. Set Master for the cab, use gain for any volume change. Then the Di output is constant.
The thru jack on the Reddi is just that. It passes right by all good stuff the Reddi is known for.
But won't adjusting the gain also change the signal since the gain comes directly after the input, but before the tone controls and master knob?
Ahhh, so you want to use the Reddi as the preamp and amplify that signal. If that's the case your original plan should definitely work just fine.
All too often I find myself on a big stage somewhere with a harried sound tech and only a brief time for a line / sound check in advance of the show, during which the bass will often get maybe 30-60 seconds. I like to know that I can make on-stage volume adjustments that don't affect the amp's gain characteristics or the sound board signal once we're up and running (using the master volume), and I prefer not to carry an outboard DI, which could be another solution. So to me having the DI decoupled from the master volume is very important, though I realize that it may not matter at all to others.
I'm not aware of ANY other amps, domestic or imported (other than early gen Mesa Walkabouts), that couple the DI to the master volume. It could be they're out there but I just haven't met them yet
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@TomB , the Fender Rumble V3 has the DI/Line out tied to the Master too. Must be a cost saving thing.
As with most things, I've found it's often better to go directly to the source, so I asked Mr. Quilter about his choice of having the XLR output linked to the Master Control, and he was kind enough to not only thoroughly explain his reasoning, but gave me permission to share it with my fellow TBers as well:
From: Pat Quilter
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 4:44 PM
Subject: RE: Bass Block 800 Technical Question
Hello Derek
I visualized the Line Out as driving an external amplifier/speaker or even a powered speaker. Like any extension speaker, I assumed it would be desirable for its volume to change along with the volume settings on the Bass Block.
Philosophically, I am stuck in the old-school theory that performing musicians are the creators of their experience and should have complete control over their sound. For that reason, all output feeds on our products reflect the amplifier’s control settings. I have become aware that sound engineers might prefer a fixed send to decouple what the stage hears and what the audience hears. I can’t argue with this in the limited cases where the audio mixer is a creative member of the band team, or at least an experienced professional with trustworthy musical judgment, but only a small percentage of our user base enjoys such competent help. The bands I go to see fill the club with the output from their own bass amp, or supplement it thru their own PA which is not actively monitored, so they need the signal chain to respond to their amp settings. Even on a “real” stage, the adjustments a bass player might make for stage level won’t exceed the engineer’s ability to compensate, who is probably riding the mix anyway. Anyway, “that’s my story and I’m sticking to it”.
You are welcome to share this.
Best regards
Pat Q
From: Derek Dean
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Bass Block 800 Technical Question
Howdy,
We've been having quite a bit of discussion on Talkbass.com about the reason behind having the XLR line out tied directly to the Master Volume Control, so I figured I'd go directly to the source and see if you wouldn't mind telling us the thinking behind this design decision.
As I mentioned last time I contacted you, I'd also like permission to publish your answer on Talkbass.com.
As a side note, I'd like to thank you for this wonderfully brilliant amp. It's the first class D amp that has given me the full tone of my bass. Just a wonderful gift for us bass players.
Sincerely,
Derek Dean
From: Pat Quilter
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 4:44 PM
Subject: RE: Bass Block 800 Technical Question
Hello Derek
I visualized the Line Out as driving an external amplifier/speaker or even a powered speaker. Like any extension speaker, I assumed it would be desirable for its volume to change along with the volume settings on the Bass Block.
Philosophically, I am stuck in the old-school theory that performing musicians are the creators of their experience and should have complete control over their sound. For that reason, all output feeds on our products reflect the amplifier’s control settings. I have become aware that sound engineers might prefer a fixed send to decouple what the stage hears and what the audience hears. I can’t argue with this in the limited cases where the audio mixer is a creative member of the band team, or at least an experienced professional with trustworthy musical judgment, but only a small percentage of our user base enjoys such competent help. The bands I go to see fill the club with the output from their own bass amp, or supplement it thru their own PA which is not actively monitored, so they need the signal chain to respond to their amp settings. Even on a “real” stage, the adjustments a bass player might make for stage level won’t exceed the engineer’s ability to compensate, who is probably riding the mix anyway. Anyway, “that’s my story and I’m sticking to it”.
You are welcome to share this.
Best regards
Pat Q
From: Derek Dean
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Bass Block 800 Technical Question
Howdy,
We've been having quite a bit of discussion on Talkbass.com about the reason behind having the XLR line out tied directly to the Master Volume Control, so I figured I'd go directly to the source and see if you wouldn't mind telling us the thinking behind this design decision.
As I mentioned last time I contacted you, I'd also like permission to publish your answer on Talkbass.com.
As a side note, I'd like to thank you for this wonderfully brilliant amp. It's the first class D amp that has given me the full tone of my bass. Just a wonderful gift for us bass players.
Sincerely,
Derek Dean
Pat Quilter is a genius, but as a gigging bassist I must differ in opinion!
The XLR DI out should be immune to volume changes on stage, period. It should be tapped prior to the power amp section at no extra cost nor consequence to the player. Many other professional amps wire this as such.
The BB800 is such a wonderful amp otherwise that only minor shortcomings like this (and a few modest others) separate it from near-perfection.
Cheers!
As someone who plays mostly churches and can't remember the last time I played ANY gig without PA support I couldn't agree more. I mean you could buy a good DI and stick it in front of the Quilter. But you just added a minimum of $200 to the cost of your rig. Although in fairness a lot of churches have them-my church has a Sansamp I'll run in front. But that would certainly be a shortcomming to consider if I was to purchase one for myself. One of the things I loved about my old Thunderfunk was the direct out which was excellent.
Agreed. I typically don't need to change my gain once I set it but may want to change my stage volume while not affecting what goes to the house. That's the pretty much standard way that bass amps with gains and masters work.
OTOH...
What you see as picking apart I see as offering feedback. Most companies appreciate that. There's no problem relating all of the positive things about it, talking about a couple of things in the other column shouldn't be a problem. Besides, wouldn't most people who would be affected by this like to know in advance? I knew when I bought mine because I read about it here. It wasn't a deal breaker, it was just kind of odd. Everyone doesn't have a soundperson waiting to tweak their channel if they make a volume adjustment on stage.
I'm fine with post EQ on the Line Out but I know some people prefer pre. Also good to know. Given the choice between having to carry an external DI and these tweaks built in (we now know why he did it), I'd rather see the tweaks. I still love mine.
yeah, i could see the argument for making that DI "post" so the amp tone makes it into the PA, but we should still be able to have it not be changed by the amp volume, that's just weird.
still, my impression of the bassblock is that it would mostly be serving as the on-stage power amp anyway, and whatever preamp feeds it would be feeding FOH separately anyway.
still, my impression of the bassblock is that it would mostly be serving as the on-stage power amp anyway, and whatever preamp feeds it would be feeding FOH separately anyway.
From his email response, yeah . He said all their products have that feature.
I get why he did it that way. That way you can run a slave amp without having to adjust the volume on 2 or more amps on the fly.
I have been using the Fender Rumble V3 that has this same type of DI out, it really isn't that big of an issue. I liken to think of it like the cab is miked. I know if I turn up, it will feed the front more, so I'm aware of this and adjust accordingly . In reality, it has never posed an issue from any stage I've had to use it to FOH or even in the studio.I suppose that is because I've never had to adjust to an extreme from my starting point. If it was a major issue, I do have an MXR preamp on my board that I could run a DI from there if needed to.
Ok, that may well be true, but it's not the design logic Pat Quilter mentioned. I only wish my sound techs were as attentive as he seems to have given them credit for. I'm glad at least that he has the feedback as he thinks about future products and refinements.
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As good as the power section of the Bass Block is, the preamp section is up there with the best IMO. The only way that I would bypass the front panel and the limiters would be if I attached another pre to the XLR in to make it like a 2 channel amp for my EUB etc.
- Sep 3, 2006
- 4,358
- 6,117
- Disclosures
- Authorized dealer for Dingwall, Genzler, Phil Jones Bass, Cort, Traynor, Yorkville Sound
I believe you are correct and the DI is post EQ so as to get the same amp flavor in the DI as on stage. For me, I am one of those who sets everything to start with and then never touches it for the rest of the of the gig. But for those who do use different volumes and tones the soundman would have to ride the bass input from a DI of the amp. A good soundman can do this. Easily solved with the addition of a dedicated DI box. I think if one looks at the difference in price point of this amp versus the amps that do have the added DI features he will see those amps are at a higher price point. The expense of an added DI can either be small or large enough to make this difference a cost consideration - it depends on what one wants/needs.
