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Double Bass Rabbath technique thumb position

P

PRUNEFACE

Nov 17, 2008
1,370
1
Northwest Florida
#1
In Rabbath's books, which finger is used as the pivot point in thumb position? I cant find my book at the moment and wanted to show that approach to thumb position to my teacher (who has used almost all of the method books in the past, but did not study Rabbath in depth) who is having me learn TP from Bottesini Method Book 2. I use pivots quite a bit in lower positions, so I wanted to have an explanation of the thumb position pivots and, if possible, a video illustrating it.

Thanks!
 
#2
Hi Prune, I think in thumb position it's not so much a pivot as a "crab technique" to connect notes. Meaning, while you're playing one note, your thumb, or other fingers sometimes, "crabs along" either up or down, in anticipation of the next note. You can connect passages seamlessly in this way. You can use it on the same string, or another string, whatever the passage calls for; the idea is that you can connect many notes without shifting. It's not necessarily a "Rabbath school" only technique, although he identifies it with the term crab.
 
#3
Here's a quote that will explain better than I could.

I was trying to play the Bach cello suites on the bass but was having a lot of difficulty," Rabbath says. "One day I was sitting on a beach in Nice when I saw a crab walking on the sand. And I imagined my fingers moving on the strings like that crab. So I went home and wrote a 23-page paper on how this technique would work without touching the bass, and when I tried it later it worked. That's how I invented the crab technique.
 
#4
To me it is worth noting that this is not "Rabbath's technique" as has been mentioned previously; many other players have been doing this for a long time.

Just as playing with extended fingering as been around for decades, so has changing TP positions from extended (covering a P4th, or more, to closed (covering a m3rd) as one moves up or down the board.

Rabbath wrote a book, labeled it, and marketed it. More power to him!
 
#7
PRUNEFACE said:
My understanding (as I own all three books) is that the third book introduces the crab -what makes book 2's thumb position unique? I just found it and was looking through it and I did not see any references to pivots or the crab technique.
Click to expand...
It's not possible to "pivot" in thumb position, if we're using the term properly. The crab technique is an alternative to shifting, but is yet another approach. In crab, one opens and closes their hand while any given finger works as an "anchor" to push or pull their hand into the new position. Rabbath may not have invented the concept (although he seems to have derived it independently), but he has written extensive studies for it.

What makes volume two's thumb position material unique? Very little, considering almost none of the book is in thumb position (although most of the etudes can be played in any position, as you will see in volume four). Just about the only part of the book in thumb position, page 33, is a study in hand shapes and full hand extension (rather than individual finger extensions).

To me, some of the defining characteristics of Rabbath's left hand technique in regards to thumb position include:

- Use of the six position system, based on the harmonic nodes of the string.
- Use of all four strings in all six positions, which facilitates much faster playing.
- Use of the full weight of his arm. He leans the bass back and allows gravity to pull the weight of his arm through his fingers and into the string and fingerboard.
- Hand shapes. Check out the pictures in the supplemental packets that comes with each volume.
- Crab technique, which I've already described.
- Use of "thumb position" in lower registers.
 
#8
Thanks so much Paul! I know See how knowledgable you are about Rabbathian technique everytime I do a search. The crab technique I already "understand" (still working on the actual application) and I realized a pivot (as done earlier in his books) is not possible considering that no fngers are below (in sound) the thumb so I was wondering if there was anything that defined the thumb positions. You were able to answer my question quite succintly -thanks again!
 
#9
PRUNEFACE said:
Thanks so much Paul! I know See how knowledgable you are about Rabbathian technique everytime I do a search.
Click to expand...
Well, I do study with the guy. There's a lot of interest in his techniques right now, but there's also a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding of the concepts. I'm happy to explain what I can.
 
#12
Thanks. I saw that one before. Are all the TP and crab exercises in the 3rd book? and also the pivot exercises?
Thinking about ordering the 3rd one and skipping the 2nd book. I have the first book but that is not much different than other methods I think, so I was a little bit disappointed about that. I am more interested in the typical Rabbath trademarks.
 
#13
Les Fret said:
Thanks. I saw that one before. Are all the TP and crab exercises in the 3rd book? and also the pivot exercises?
Thinking about ordering the 3rd one and skipping the 2nd book. I have the first book but that is not much different than other methods I think, so I was a little bit disappointed about that. I am more interested in the typical Rabbath trademarks.
Click to expand...
The third book is, in my opinion, the most substantive. Along with many other items, it contains all of the original crab exercises. Pivoting is actually not a major focus of Rabbath's method, although he does give one exercise on page 52-53. That exercise was expanded to all major keys by Hal Robinson in "Boardwalkin'." Additionally, some of the fingering options given in the scale section of the third book utilize pivots.

The fourth book will expand on crab technique and pivoting, but the release date for that keeps getting pushed back. Hopefully it will be out some time this year.

EDIT: There is another pivoting exercise in book three on page 56, which I think is the original basis for Boardwalkin'.
 
#15
Les Fret said:
I thought pivoting was one of the most important Rabbath trademarks. Why is there so little about it in his methods?
Click to expand...
He rarely uses it. He has never made a big deal about it, but for some reason other people have conflated "Rabbath technique" with "funny endpin and pivots."

Pivoting is a very useful technique, particularly in orchestra, but truthfully there aren't many exercises you could do for it beyond simple scales.
 
#16
I don't understand this. I thought that was the major thing that sets him apart from say the Simandl method. Besides many other things of course.
In all the topics or articles I read about Rabbath it always goes about the pivoting. Also in this video it is the first thing he is explaining, from 5:13 and on:
YouTube - François Rabbath at HfM Berlin - 1

also in this video discussion with Hans Sturm it seems to be the main point:
YouTube - Hans Sturm discusses the Rabbath technique
 
#17
Pivoting is, for François himself, a very small part of his method. For other people, it may be the "defining" part of the method because it is what they were most struck by and use most often. It is only one of dozens of possible fingering patterns, so why should he spend an inordinate amount of time on it when there are so many other things to discuss?

Rabbath's methods are not comprehensive, nor are they intended to be. They are an introduction to concepts, from which he expects the student to extrapolate and develop on their own.

As for comparing with Simandl, it's comparing apples and oranges. The entire method is substantively different.
 
#18
PaulCannon said:
As for comparing with Simandl, it's comparing apples and oranges. The entire method is substantively different.
Click to expand...

True of course. But in the 1st book the fingering is the same as with Simandl. I don't see any radical different approach there. That is why I was a bit disappointed in the book.
I am not saying it is a bad book (not at all). But I just thought it would be more different.
 
#19
PaulCannon said:
He leans the bass back and allows gravity to pull the weight of his arm through his fingers and into the string and fingerboard.
Click to expand...

This is huge. I have been using this idea for about 10 years and I can play pretty effortlessly in the upper register - arco or pizzicato. It can be done with a straight or angled end pin, I use a straight pin.

Rabbath is an innovator, that cannot be taken away from him.
 
#20
Les Fret said:
True of course. But in the 1st book the fingering is the same as with Simandl. I don't see any radical different approach there. That is why I was a bit disappointed in the book.
I am not saying it is a bad book (not at all). But I just thought it would be more different.
Click to expand...
I'd have to agree, I'm not a big fan of the first book. In fact, outside of Domaine Forget, I've never worked out of it. When I came to Paris, François started me with the second volume (to be fair, I was already familiar with his method). According to a few sources (I've never confirmed with François), he intended to have the first method begin in thumb position but was pressured by Leduc to begin with a more traditional approach.

The best way to begin working through the Rabbath method is to study with the man himself or spend a summer at Domaine Forget. Short of that, buy the two "Art of..." DVD's with the third volume and go nuts. A Rabbath-trained private teacher would also be helpful, if not entirely necessary.
 

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