Radial Bassbone Issue

[JCRob]

Hey guys (and girls):

For a couple of months I've using this Radial Bassbone in all of my live gigs, for a couple of reasons (By which most of us use these DIs anyway):

1. I have an awesome sounding bass (Pavel Aryel Dlx 6), and wanted to make sure that for the most part the sound loss of the signal will be kept minimum, so no matter what situation I could encounter, the least I need is a mic cable...
2. The connectivity capabilities. Again, when using my FX pedals, I love the insert of this BB (along all the other outs), and
3. of course: connect two basses at a time.

So, now to the issue:

My bass has a (John)East/Pavel 18V pre, and a couple of weeks ago, I began noticing that in certain moments, the sound of my bass became distorted, like chopped, specially when I played in the lower register. The first thing I thought was that the batteries were dead, and of course, changed them on the fly, but the problem persisted. Then I thought my amp was the problem, so I checked the gain to see if the bass was clipping, but again, no issues there.
I even thought it was my bass pre, but after playing it directly to the amp, no issues either...
I didn't want to believe it was the DI, so I swapped cables to see if that was the problem, and the sound kept getting distorted!

I must say that with my Fender P/J there is no problem, 'cause it's not that high gained as my main bass.
All I'm saying is that I know that my bass gain could be saturating, and therefore, overheating the circuits on the BB, but come on, I've used this bass in many rigs and didn't have this kind of issue!!

PLEASE!!! HELP!!!!! Is there a way to save this situation without removing this box out of the way?

Thanks to everyone who takes the time to read and help,


Roberto

 

[Session1969]

Turn down the volume of your instrument. 18 volt preamps can clip the input section of alot of stuff.

 

[JCRob]

Turn down the volume of your instrument. 18 volt preamps can clip the input section of alot of stuff.

Yes, it'll be the easiest way... I don't know if it's just me, but I feel that, no matter if I compensate afterwards, the bass doesn't sound the same...

What do you think?


And thank you!

O and, for it to not overload lowering just the volume, it will have to be on the 10% of the pot!!!

 

[David Grunigen]

I also use the Radial bassbone, and have loved it.... I play a F bass BN6, and a passive Jazz bass, I put the f through channel 1, straight through, no tone coloration, and the jazz through channel 2, for tone adjustment and extra boost, to even the input level between insturments. For 3 years I used this setup through a Hartke 3500, without a problem. Recently I started using an Orange tiny terror, and noticed when I was playing through cnannel 2, and using the "boost" function for a solo, I got some unusual distortion. Possibly dfifferent amps input sections are more sensitive?

 

[JCRob]

Orange tiny terror, and noticed when I was playing through cnannel 2, and using the "boost" function for a solo, I got some unusual distortion. Possibly dfifferent amps input sections are more sensitive?

I've tested it at home, with just a sound card, and the same issue...
Also it sounds the same through the BAL Out.

 

[David Grunigen]

Maybe you need to send it back to Radial for a checkup? I've had nothing but love from the soundman since I started using the bone....

 

[JCRob]

Maybe you need to send it back to Radial for a checkup? I've had nothing but love from the soundman since I started using the bone....

That was what the tech guy from Radial told me at the end, 'cause he asked me if I was having this issue with my other bass, and frankly I wasn't, so my initial guess is that the bass is sending just too much gain for the BB to handle.

If it only could have a PAD (like -10Db) button or switch...

 

[David Grunigen]

I think you are right, my F bass is only 9 volt system....

 

[JCRob]

This what Paul from Radial said:

"Hi Roberto, it is hard to say if it is defective. An 18volt bass pre running at full volume would probably overload the Bassbone.
If you are using a bass with a lower output and the Bassbone sounds fine there is probably no problem with the Bassbone.
If you believe it was running fine for you and now it seems to be different you can always send it to us to check out."

Besides lowering some freq. boosts on my bass (which I don't like), could a compressor be the solution?

 

[Lowtonejoe]

Hey guys (and girls):

For a couple of months I've using this Radial Bassbone in all of my live gigs, for a couple of reasons (By which most of us use these DIs anyway):

1. I have an awesome sounding bass (Pavel Aryel Dlx 6), and wanted to make sure that for the most part the sound loss of the signal will be kept minimum, so no matter what situation I could encounter, the least I need is a mic cable...
2. The connectivity capabilities. Again, when using my FX pedals, I love the insert of this BB (along all the other outs), and
3. of course: connect two basses at a time.

So, now to the issue:

My bass has a (John)East/Pavel 18V pre, and a couple of weeks ago, I began noticing that in certain moments, the sound of my bass became distorted, like chopped, specially when I played in the lower register. The first thing I thought was that the batteries were dead, and of course, changed them on the fly, but the problem persisted. Then I thought my amp was the problem, so I checked the gain to see if the bass was clipping, but again, no issues there.
I even thought it was my bass pre, but after playing it directly to the amp, no issues either...
I didn't want to believe it was the DI, so I swapped cables to see if that was the problem, and the sound kept getting distorted!

I must say that with my Fender P/J there is no problem, 'cause it's not that high gained as my main bass.
All I'm saying is that I know that my bass gain could be saturating, and therefore, overheating the circuits on the BB, but come on, I've used this bass in many rigs and didn't have this kind of issue!!

PLEASE!!! HELP!!!!! Is there a way to save this situation without removing this box out of the way?

Thanks to everyone who takes the time to read and help,


Roberto

Just lower the gain on the preamp of your bass. I did that with my Thumb and it has eliminated all headaches with high gain issues.

Your bass will sound EXACTLY the same, you will just have to turn your amp up a bit more to get the same volume as before. Any differences are just in your head. Jeez, that sounded a bit harsh.



Joe.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Assuming you have the active bass plugged into channel 1, how do you have it's volume (Level-1) set?

It wouldn't be hard to add an input pad. On most amps it's just a resistor between the hot and ground on that input jack.

 

[JCRob]

Just lower the gain on the preamp of your bass. I did that with my Thumb and it has eliminated all headaches with high gain issues.

Your bass will sound EXACTLY the same, you will just have to turn your amp up a bit more to get the same volume as before. Any differences are just in your head. Jeez, that sounded a bit harsh.



Joe.

I just did that (not the gain in the pre, but volume and bass on the knobs), and of course, no problems so far.
But, instead of "remembering" the exact place where it doesn't sound bad, maybe a compressor will set the right amount of gain before the box?

Assuming you have the active bass plugged into channel 1, how do you have it's volume (Level-1) set?

It wouldn't be hard to add an input pad. On most amps it's just a resistor between the hot and ground on that input jack.

Well it will have to be on the DI itself... But no electronic skills here.

 

[Lowtonejoe]

I just did that (not the gain in the pre, but volume and bass on the knobs), and of course, no problems so far.
But, instead of "remembering" the exact place where it doesn't sound bad, maybe a compressor will set the right amount of gain before the box?

Think about it. Turning the gain down on the preamp will let you turn your volume knob all the way up so you wont have to 'remember' where to turn it to.

A compressor will not solve your problem. Any pedal you use to try and control your volume will color the sound of your awesome bass. If you are ok with that, go for it. But find a pedal that wont be overdriven by your 'still too high gain' preamp.



Joe.

 

[PavelMI]

Roberto,

If you open the control cavity, you will look and see that the treble pot has a circuit board and at one corner it has a blue trimpot. That trimpot is the gain control. You can try lowering the gain from there and see.

Pavel-

 

[Lowtonejoe]

Roberto,

If you open the control cavity, you will look and see that the treble pot has a circuit board and at one corner it has a blue trimpot. That trimpot is the gain control. You can try lowering the gain from there and see.

Pavel-

Yup. This is what I'm talking about.



Joe.

 

[JCRob]

Yup. This is what I'm talking about.



Joe.

Indeed Joe, and thank you for your replies, but just spoke to Pavel about this: I dialed gain pre to its minimum level, and although the distortion attenuated, it didn't go away...
Thanks to Pavel as well!

For me it's weird since I know this brand to be excellent, and it's only logic that if you're making a DI specially for BASS, at least the 18V PAs (not to talk about 27V) have to be taken in account, so its high gain will not be an issue.

 

[Lowtonejoe]

Indeed Joe, and thank you for your replies, but just spoke to Pavel about this: I dialed gain pre to its minimum level, and although the distortion attenuated, it didn't go away...
Thanks to Pavel as well!

For me it's weird since I know this brand to be excellent, and it's only logic that if you're making a DI specially for BASS, at least the 18V PAs (not to talk about 27V) have to be taken in account, so its high gain will not be an issue.

Sounds like you might have a dud. Who would install a preamp that would be so hard to work with?

Can it be converted to 9 volt? Might be very easy to do.



Joe.

 

[JCRob]

Sounds like you might have a dud. Who would install a preamp that would be so hard to work with?

Can it be converted to 9 volt? Might be very easy to do.

A dud being my bass pre?? Nahh Maybe the R's BB.

Let me restate that the distortion happens in the DI box, and not in the bass. Haven't had this problem in 7 years of playing 18V pre basses, until now, and with this product.

I'll ask Pavel about another option...

 

[John East]

Hey guys (and girls):

For a couple of months I've using this Radial Bassbone in all of my live gigs, for a couple of reasons (By which most of us use these DIs anyway):

1. I have an awesome sounding bass (Pavel Aryel Dlx 6), and wanted to make sure that for the most part the sound loss of the signal will be kept minimum, so no matter what situation I could encounter, the least I need is a mic cable...
2. The connectivity capabilities. Again, when using my FX pedals, I love the insert of this BB (along all the other outs), and
3. of course: connect two basses at a time.

So, now to the issue:

My bass has a (John)East/Pavel 18V pre, and a couple of weeks ago, I began noticing that in certain moments, the sound of my bass became distorted, like chopped, specially when I played in the lower register. The first thing I thought was that the batteries were dead, and of course, changed them on the fly, but the problem persisted. Then I thought my amp was the problem, so I checked the gain to see if the bass was clipping, but again, no issues there.
I even thought it was my bass pre, but after playing it directly to the amp, no issues either...
I didn't want to believe it was the DI, so I swapped cables to see if that was the problem, and the sound kept getting distorted!

I must say that with my Fender P/J there is no problem, 'cause it's not that high gained as my main bass.
All I'm saying is that I know that my bass gain could be saturating, and therefore, overheating the circuits on the BB, but come on, I've used this bass in many rigs and didn't have this kind of issue!!

PLEASE!!! HELP!!!!! Is there a way to save this situation without removing this box out of the way?

Thanks to everyone who takes the time to read and help,


Roberto

There is a gain trim, see attached pic (small blue block), which illustrates its location. Using a small screw driver, adjust for the lowest gain, which is 'unity' ie a gain of 1, where what goes in, comes out - no difference between active and passive level when the controls are flat.

The amount of boost on the bass control is variable up to 18dBs, and depending where the internal bass frequency is set, the overall amount of signal energy can be large.

If the gain preset is at minimum and you still have the problem, turning down the volume would do it.

(There is a position on the circuit board for a plug-in attenuator, if all else fails BTW)

 

[John East]

A dud being my bass pre?? Nahh Maybe the R's BB.

Let me restate that the distortion happens in the DI box, and not in the bass. Haven't had this problem in 7 years of playing 18V pre basses, until now, and with this product.

I'll ask Pavel about another option...

Did you ask Radial as to what they think?

You've asked me about the preamp which we can address with the attenuator but you're finding that it's actually the DI box that's distorting.