Reading music and elitism

[Roy Vogt]

I'm a little confused here. Can someone explain to me what is so wrong with Tab? I can read music, but I feel that Tab is better as it seems to be less exact,it's more of a general outline or foundation.With the exception of professional cover bands,shouldnt we as Musicians strive not to be robots playing a line verbatim but instead putting our own style and idea's into the music and making it our own?

I'm guessing from some of your other posts you're a younger player. A lot of guys start by just taking licks or bass lines off recordings and jamming with their buddies (I sure did). At a certain point you can hit a wall in your playing that studying some different forms of music (Classical, Jazz, etc.) or checking out what other instrumentalists are playing (Charlie Parker, Wes Montgomery, John McLaughlin, Snarky Puppy, etc.) can help you break through. It was certainly that way in my case.
I started playing Electric Bass when I was 14 and really didn't get down to shedding reading Music until I was a High School Senior and came to the realization that I wanted to do this for a living.
I guess the short answer is that reading Standard Musical Notation gets you out of the Guitar/Bass Magazines and TAB sites and into working on some more sophisticated and different ideas. If you want to be a working Pro Player reading Music isn't necessary but it really, really helps.
The chief objections I have to solely relying on TAB are being cut off from so much other Music and that it cheats you of the options of making up your own mind where and how you want to play the idea on your bass or guitar.
Hope this helps.

 

[carl h.]

This is great. In what way don't you consider that a condescending answer? Welcome to the general instruction section.

It leaves room for interpretation by the end user. It isn't rigid like notation. It isn't in any way exactly what I was trying to communicate. Everyone knows that people who read sheet music are lacking in originality and incapable of spontaneous creativity. Just a bunch of sheep as it were.

I'm a little confused here. Can someone explain to me what is so wrong with Tab? I can read music, but I feel that Tab is better as it seems to be less exact,it's more of a general outline or foundation.With the exception of professional cover bands,shouldnt we as Musicians strive not to be robots playing a line verbatim but instead putting our own style and idea's into the music and making it our own?

Why not just play a recording, at least it will be 100% accurate. This whole train of thought is majorly condescending to people who can do far more than just read a written part.

 

[Roy Vogt]

It leaves room for interpretation by the end user. It isn't rigid like notation. It isn't in any way exactly what I was trying to communicate. Everyone knows that people who read sheet music are lacking in originality and incapable of spontaneous creativity. Just a bunch of sheep as it were.


Why not just play a recording, at least it will be 100% accurate. This whole train of thought is majorly condescending to people who can do far more than just read a written part.

No way this can be anything but sarcasm. In case it wasn't I humbly submit two examples. (Update: OK, I just realized the tone of what you were saying, carl h. I didn't understand for a minute-I get it now.)
This is from written out sheet music. There's a whole lot more here than just reading the notes on the page-dynamics, interpretation, phrasing, etc. I can't call this guy a sheep in any fashion. He sounds like himself and no other musician:

Clearly, there's more going on here than the written part. My friend Bryan Beller is the bassist here and he told my Bass Majors that he had to prepare his audition for Steve Vai in 24 hours and if he had not been able to write out his part there's no way he would have learned it in time to pass the audition and get the gig.

 

[carl h.]

I have worked with some top class talent who perform from written music - whether memorized or read. No 2 performances - even note for note perfect - are ever identical. There is so much more to music that cannot be captured in any written fashion. Tabs are so flawed as to be only the barest framework of the composers intent. Even written out scores with full written instructions are lacking, but why not give yourself every possible chance to get inside the composers mind? From there you can take it anywhere you care to go, but to start from a weak sketch and claim musical superiority over "readers" is ridiculous.

 

[smeet]

I don't have any hate for tab. However, I find it unpleasant to read, maybe because I haven't done it much. It has some advantages, for when you want to notate specific fingerings in a weird tuning. I can see John Cage wanting to use it for prepared guitar.

But, here are the technical disadvantages off the top of my head:
1) It's instrument-specific
2) It's tuning-specific
3) It gives no rhythmic information
4) It gives no key information (at least not directly)
5) It gives no note name information (at least not directly)

And of course, if you're a decent reader, you can improvise around or alter the written part as you see fit. When melodic instruments read melodies out of the Real Book for instance, they mess around with rhythms to make them swing more. But you also have the exact rhythms there if you want them.

 

[thepontif]

Yeah, and there's the really interesting part. The greatest classical performances, originally gleaned from written music, probably has more to do with improvisation than 99.99% of people would ever imagine. But you wouldn't know that if you hadn't been around some SERIOUS bad ass classical musicians.

The problem with tab is it makes it encourages people not to read the language that, like it or not, THE MAJORITY OF GOOD MUSICIANS READ!!!! And probably always will.

 

[carl h.]

Pete Barbutti has a great line about guys who say "Now I'd like to play you a song that goes something like this..."

He says, "No, it goes EXACTLY like that! If it didn't it would be a different song."

 

[Roy Vogt]

The problem with tab is it makes it encourages people not to read the language that, like it or not, THE MAJORITY OF GOOD MUSICIANS READ!!!! And probably always will.

My viewpoint from being a working player is that making a living as a working bassist is "ahem" interesting enough without adding any handicaps whatsoever. Therefore, the more you can do (yes, even playing that big thing that's on the other half of these forums) the better off you are if that's what feeds your family and makes your house payment. Any skill I can add into my bag of tricks will only help.

 

[carl h.]

My viewpoint from being a working player is that making a living as a working bassist is "ahem" interesting enough without adding any handicaps whatsoever. Therefore, the more you can do (yes, even playing that big thing that's on the other half of these forums) the better off you are if that's what feeds your family and makes your house payment. Any skill I can add into my bag of tricks will only help.

I agree totally!

Since picking up BG, I have even learned to read.... TAB!!

I'd prefer to have sheet music for everything I am asked to play, but some of this stuff isn't out in standard notation. Tab, on the other hand, seems to be out there for everything. So, lacking time to transcribe everything to get a note for note correct part, I give the available tab a look to see what folks have come up with and take it from there with corrections done by ear as I become more familiar with the song. I would NEVER tab out a song, but I regularly write out bass parts - verbatim - to songs I will have to perform on short notice.

By write out, I mean enter it into my computer using a program I purchased with my money earned as a professional musician, which I have also used to write out my arrangements of music for performance by other professional musicians as well as some hobbyists.

 

[miltslackford]

It leaves room for interpretation by the end user. It isn't rigid like notation. It isn't in any way exactly what I was trying to communicate. Everyone knows that people who read sheet music are lacking in originality and incapable of spontaneous creativity. Just a bunch of sheep as it were.


Why not just play a recording, at least it will be 100% accurate. This whole train of thought is majorly condescending to people who can do far more than just read a written part.

Well it's important the world knows what you're capable of. Tell us more.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Two bass players show up to the get together for the big band formation. One guy could read treble clef from studying violin a quarter century ago. Other guy could probably play rings around him. "Reader" bumbles his way through and gets the gig. Other guy goes home. Those violin lesons really paid off that day. Thanks Dad.

 

[carl h.]

Well it's important the world knows what you're capable of. Tell us more.

No thanks, but thanks for asking.

 

[JimmyM]

I'm a little confused here. Can someone explain to me what is so wrong with Tab? I can read music, but I feel that Tab is better as it seems to be less exact,it's more of a general outline or foundation.With the exception of professional cover bands,shouldnt we as Musicians strive not to be robots playing a line verbatim but instead putting our own style and idea's into the music and making it our own?

Right, because learning how to read takes away all creativity from your mind and turns you into a robot.

Really now, this is the kind of stuff that burns my cookies, and that kind of thinking can only come from someone who's never learned to read music. Where in the world did the idea that you can't be creative if you read ever start? That's such a ridiculous assumption that I can't even believe non-readers would feel that way. Sorry but it is. Maybe you didn't mean to be offensive with it, but it's sooooooo not true it's not even funny.

I read, plus I write songs, I arrange and produce music, and I can interpret sheet music and make it my own when I play it. There are times I have to play what's written, but if I see a line written out that I think needs a little creative interpretation, I can easily do that. So can most musicians I know who can read.

Anyway, sorry for the rant, but these are the kinds of gross misconceptions that can only come from not having any experience with reading music.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Dude said he can read.

 

[JimmyM]

Oh...I guess I got hung up on the "robots" part and didn't see much else.

Well then that's even more wild for him to say that. Does he feel he's turned into a robot because he can read? Doesn't sound like it to me.

 

[BassyBill]

I'm a little confused here. Can someone explain to me what is so wrong with Tab? I can read music, but I feel that Tab is better as it seems to be less exact,it's more of a general outline or foundation.With the exception of professional cover bands,shouldnt we as Musicians strive not to be robots playing a line verbatim but instead putting our own style and idea's into the music and making it our own?

Tab just tells you were to put your fingers to play each note in a sequence. I don't see how that is a "foundation" or "general outline" in any way that standard notation is not, unless you mean that excluding information about note duration somehow gives more freedom to a musician playing the part?

"Curses! That jerk arranger gave me notation again. Doesn't he know that I'm a sensitive and creative artist, for chrissakes? Give me TAB, damn you, and let me express myself!"

 

[middy]

I can read music, but slowly. I wish I could sight read, it would take some practice.

The most important thing for me is keys and chord tones, and knowing when we just changed keys because of the chord progression. I write my own parts, so I don't need to sight read, I just need to know the chord tones of the progression, and how to interpret key changes.

My mother is the opposite of me. She can sight read piano music, but she has not a clue as to how one would "jam with a II V vamp in D."

I understand the theory better than I read, but sight reading is a very basic and important skill in more sophisticated styles of music. I can learn simple parts by ear quickly and come up with pop basslines and maybe even stick a jazzy lick, but more structured and intricate music requires sight reading. Classical music of course requires sight reading. Frank Zappa's band rehearsed with intricate sheet music all the time. There's no way to memorize that stuff by ear or by plodding through it. You have to be able to read it off the page like English if you even want to start getting the hang of music like that.

Then again, most people would rather drink a beer and hear "Louie Louie" again.

 

[emor]

I'm probably like a lot of guys around here--I play in a couple of bands and gig semi-regularly and get paid for it, but I would classify myself as more towards the amateur end of the spectrum rather than pro.

I can read but am not as skilled at it as I would be if I were doing it everyday. I'm never in a situation where I'm required to read for a gig. Many (most?) people I play with do not read. For that matter I don't think they use TAB either--primarily ear and memory players.

Nothing I am doing is very complex--mostly blues based stuff-- but where I find the ability to read very useful is being able to jot down notation at practice when learning new material, especially originals. Most of the lines I play are blues scale and pentatonic based riffs or grooves that are very similar. Being able to write out 2 bar phrases complete with rhythms relieves me of having to memorize or record everything, like taking notes in a class.

My cheat sheets are an amalgam of Roman numerals, written descriptions, snippets of standard notation, etc., but never TAB.

Also, I'm usually working on something at home that falls outside my band and gigging situations. That is usually working out of method books or transcribing off of recordings using SN.

I've tried working from TAB because there is so much of it on the internet, but having learned SN notation first, it just seems (sorry, I'm at a loss for a more sensitive word) dumb.

I learned the rudiments of reading in elementary school--we had music class once a week, IIRC. (This wasn't band, which was optional; everybody attended this.) In the lower grades it was just singing along with the music teacher's piano accompaniment, but around 4th or 5th grade we started learning the notes on the staff as well as time and key signatures and rhythmic concepts. This was in the 60's and from what I understand, this is the kind of thing that has been cut out of school budgets along with the fine and industrial arts and other non-back-to-the-basics curricula. What a shame.

 

[MostlyBass]

My viewpoint from being a working player is that making a living as a working bassist is "ahem" interesting enough without adding any handicaps whatsoever. Therefore, the more you can do (yes, even playing that big thing that's on the other half of these forums) the better off you are if that's what feeds your family and makes your house payment. Any skill I can add into my bag of tricks will only help.

Agreed. I have gotten gigs / won auditions because of my reading skills. I'm classically trained so reading isn't problem... BUT why limit yourself? Go ahead and use tablature. But becoming great reader is another tool in the toolbox and opens up many doors.

Reading also makes communicating with other musicians much easier (tablature is fret-instrument specific) and can be very efficient when learning new music.

 

[BassChuck]

Right now I'm involved with a musical that has an unusual amount of sustained notes. No problem, except that my 'C' on the G string is a dead spot and the note will not sustain as it needs to sometimes, so I play the 'C' on the D string and the problem is solved.

Can TAB help me solve that?