To be fair - neither system will solve that problem for you. Knowledge of your instrument will.
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Reading music and elitism
- Thread starter JimmyM
- Start date
To be fair - neither system will solve that problem for you. Knowledge of your instrument will.
No, but 10 minutes with a fingerboard diagram can. I have 7-year-old students with only the most basic young beginner reading skills who could solve that "quandry."
Reading music develops into more than just being able to see notes.
it becomes part of the sub-concious way the brain will access it to reinforce information you know or learn. It becomes one of your Musical Senses that your body taps into and uses to help you play your instrument.
Many have posted about tab being numbers, but the truth of it for me is it is still notes, as i suspect it is for many players that have musical education, or very developed through experience, intensive musical skills.
So the tab show 5 on the A string, i bet you see D as well, or you know it is a D rather than a 5.
This fact will escape players that cannot read because they will lack the experience to draw on. Since chord books use a visual reference to show how the finger can be placed so it is with tab.
On the bass because of the tuningin 4ths it lends its self well to leaning patterns. But patterns are a small part of it as they to will reinforce musical learning, especially reading. i have worked with composers who can visualize instruments in their mind as well as hear what it is they want to play when notating arrangements.
I learned to play bass in a couple of weeks, because i knew music. I was orchestrally trained, so i knew music and i could order notes. So all i done was order the notes on the fretboard and was good to go. But when i was ordering them i saw in my minds eye the staff positions of the notes. I then ' saw ' the intervals on the staff and applied them to the fretboard notes, as i did with chord tones, Arps and Scales.
The other thing that stood me in good stead was as a brass player my right hand fingers already had developed dexterity to pluck through the years of valve fingering...so i started playing three finger style without any thought or difficulty.
My piano skills, as limited as they were, enabled me to fret and move around the neck, so again i was never starting from scratch, all i had learned was used to help me play and progress on bass.
Any player working in music will benefit from any musical interaction being it tabs, theory, SN, listening and watching, or experience of another instrument..it is all taking in and used to reinforce what we already know, or will help understand and new idea we learn as we will compare it with some thing we already know. In learning we do not always need to understand certain points and teachings, just retain them as they will have a use later on.
So at the top of this post i mentioned that even though the tab would show 5th position on A string for a D, if i add 4th postion on the D string and 5th postion on the G string how many of you can not only see the notes but hear the sound they make...without looking on the neck to work it out?
This is my point, the more you learn the more your sub-concious has to draw on to come to a conclusion in helping you play and understand your instrument, whether you realise it or not. Reading music is not the whole skill, its getting it off the page and making it real so it connects with people, that is the skill.
The points made to insinuate that readers are souless or robots must then apply across the spectrum of artistic expression.
That means no-one can really play Shakespeare because the words are written for them as they cannot change them to use there own words of expression.
Actors such as Bogart, Fonda, Brando, Davis, etc were no good because the script told them what to say and a director told them what to do. Yes reading does involves total freedom of expression if you have the training, experiencem understanding and ability do do it. Yes there as those that can do it and those that can't, as in all walks of life there are different levels of ability and different demands on that ability...reading music is the same.
All any player has to do is start somewhere and build on it and develop a cumlitave knowlege and experience to draw on, then they will realise it is all the same its about how it is played, not really how it is writtenor read.
it becomes part of the sub-concious way the brain will access it to reinforce information you know or learn. It becomes one of your Musical Senses that your body taps into and uses to help you play your instrument.
Many have posted about tab being numbers, but the truth of it for me is it is still notes, as i suspect it is for many players that have musical education, or very developed through experience, intensive musical skills.
So the tab show 5 on the A string, i bet you see D as well, or you know it is a D rather than a 5.
This fact will escape players that cannot read because they will lack the experience to draw on. Since chord books use a visual reference to show how the finger can be placed so it is with tab.
On the bass because of the tuningin 4ths it lends its self well to leaning patterns. But patterns are a small part of it as they to will reinforce musical learning, especially reading. i have worked with composers who can visualize instruments in their mind as well as hear what it is they want to play when notating arrangements.
I learned to play bass in a couple of weeks, because i knew music. I was orchestrally trained, so i knew music and i could order notes. So all i done was order the notes on the fretboard and was good to go. But when i was ordering them i saw in my minds eye the staff positions of the notes. I then ' saw ' the intervals on the staff and applied them to the fretboard notes, as i did with chord tones, Arps and Scales.
The other thing that stood me in good stead was as a brass player my right hand fingers already had developed dexterity to pluck through the years of valve fingering...so i started playing three finger style without any thought or difficulty.
My piano skills, as limited as they were, enabled me to fret and move around the neck, so again i was never starting from scratch, all i had learned was used to help me play and progress on bass.
Any player working in music will benefit from any musical interaction being it tabs, theory, SN, listening and watching, or experience of another instrument..it is all taking in and used to reinforce what we already know, or will help understand and new idea we learn as we will compare it with some thing we already know. In learning we do not always need to understand certain points and teachings, just retain them as they will have a use later on.
So at the top of this post i mentioned that even though the tab would show 5th position on A string for a D, if i add 4th postion on the D string and 5th postion on the G string how many of you can not only see the notes but hear the sound they make...without looking on the neck to work it out?
This is my point, the more you learn the more your sub-concious has to draw on to come to a conclusion in helping you play and understand your instrument, whether you realise it or not. Reading music is not the whole skill, its getting it off the page and making it real so it connects with people, that is the skill.
The points made to insinuate that readers are souless or robots must then apply across the spectrum of artistic expression.
That means no-one can really play Shakespeare because the words are written for them as they cannot change them to use there own words of expression.
Actors such as Bogart, Fonda, Brando, Davis, etc were no good because the script told them what to say and a director told them what to do. Yes reading does involves total freedom of expression if you have the training, experiencem understanding and ability do do it. Yes there as those that can do it and those that can't, as in all walks of life there are different levels of ability and different demands on that ability...reading music is the same.
All any player has to do is start somewhere and build on it and develop a cumlitave knowlege and experience to draw on, then they will realise it is all the same its about how it is played, not really how it is writtenor read.
*clap clap clap* I vote for you Fergie Fulton ! Oh it isn't a Presidential course ... oh well
Seriously it is very well said and I think this sums up everything.
PS : While reading the part about the 5th fret on A string I could see it in my head ... D7 chord with D, F# and C.
The robot stage passes. There wouldn't be many ear players who can groove the same while learning to read.
What's cool is getting handed a new and unfamiliar tune at rehearsal and by the second run through it's bopping. Try that with tab.
What's cool is getting handed a new and unfamiliar tune at rehearsal and by the second run through it's bopping. Try that with tab.
How would these snippets look in tab format?
The band I'm in has more than 1000 pages of this stuff, and it's just one band that I play with. We play a new set list every month, with two rehearsals. In fact we don't have time to rehearse every tune. You're supposed to learn your parts at home.
If material is in tab format, and you need to use it, then use it. In my view, tab is unworkable for anything but conveying relatively simple material. No mainstream arranger knows how to write a tab, or has any reason to do so. When I was growing up and playing in rock bands, we learned tunes by ear. I've literally never been handed a tab to play from.
I won't argue that reading notation will suddenly turn anybody into a gig machine. Every locale already has a cadre of strong readers who take that kind of work when it comes along. Almost all of my reading gigs call for upright bass anyway.
Like Fergie, I learned bass in a few weeks, after having taken cello lessons for a few years. I worked through my Dotzauer etudes, and was ready to join the school jazz band.
The band I'm in has more than 1000 pages of this stuff, and it's just one band that I play with. We play a new set list every month, with two rehearsals. In fact we don't have time to rehearse every tune. You're supposed to learn your parts at home.
If material is in tab format, and you need to use it, then use it. In my view, tab is unworkable for anything but conveying relatively simple material. No mainstream arranger knows how to write a tab, or has any reason to do so. When I was growing up and playing in rock bands, we learned tunes by ear. I've literally never been handed a tab to play from.
I won't argue that reading notation will suddenly turn anybody into a gig machine. Every locale already has a cadre of strong readers who take that kind of work when it comes along. Almost all of my reading gigs call for upright bass anyway.
Like Fergie, I learned bass in a few weeks, after having taken cello lessons for a few years. I worked through my Dotzauer etudes, and was ready to join the school jazz band.
Attachments
The first snipplet sound very wierd in some places ( I transcribed it in Finale ). It is for an original or a cover ? and in the triplet passage Fb-Cb-Fb over E7 chord ? why not write E-B-E instead ?
Here's a fairly simple and straight forward bass part to a well known piece of music.
Link Removed
Tab this one out. You get one read through and then the paying audience will hear you.
This is a very common occurrence for a gigging bassist. Every time I have done this show, the overture was read at the end of the last rehearsal (that would be the 3rd one) and that was it. 2nd time through it is opening the show.
Try to get these simple rhythms or tempo changes through tab.
How do you tab rests?
So, instead of 3 pages of easily read music, we will have multiple pages of complicated directions? (using standard notation to illustrate rests isn't tab)
Yes it can be done, but is it better?
Yes it can be done, but is it better?
JimmyM, I definitely agree with you.
I couldn't afford lessons. But it doesn't stop me, and it's not an excuse. But I was lucky enough to get a Squier Affinity P Bass for Christmas. My family wasn't really sure if it was gonna stick and go somewhere. My dad had faith in me, but my aunt was like "you are not gonna be taking lessons? How are you gonna learn"
I have been playing from tab for ten years now, but I have been working on reading for the past year. I agree with JimmyM about "just go and buy a book and put the time in".
That's how I am starting to do it now.
I am only 24. Sometimes I think "why didn't I start reading EIGHT years ago?!" And I kick myself. But I am definitely young in perspective. It's never too late to start.
So while you are right Mr Jimmy, I have no doubt that without tab, I would not be playing AT ALL.
So it's definitely a gateway drug. Studies show that people who start on tab move on to harder stuff. Really hard stuff, but its awesome and I can't get enough.
Does anyone know where I can get some of that Paul Chambers in clef. The tab is not doing it for me anymore. It's not for me. It's for a friend.
I couldn't afford lessons. But it doesn't stop me, and it's not an excuse. But I was lucky enough to get a Squier Affinity P Bass for Christmas. My family wasn't really sure if it was gonna stick and go somewhere. My dad had faith in me, but my aunt was like "you are not gonna be taking lessons? How are you gonna learn"
I have been playing from tab for ten years now, but I have been working on reading for the past year. I agree with JimmyM about "just go and buy a book and put the time in".
That's how I am starting to do it now.
I am only 24. Sometimes I think "why didn't I start reading EIGHT years ago?!" And I kick myself. But I am definitely young in perspective. It's never too late to start.
So while you are right Mr Jimmy, I have no doubt that without tab, I would not be playing AT ALL.
So it's definitely a gateway drug. Studies show that people who start on tab move on to harder stuff. Really hard stuff, but its awesome and I can't get enough.
Does anyone know where I can get some of that Paul Chambers in clef. The tab is not doing it for me anymore. It's not for me. It's for a friend.
Yikes. I would always cheat in percussion class and write the counting above the notes... lol. Things like waiting dotted eight rests are just stupid. I just can't do that without figuring how to count it beforehand. How do you people do that? Do you seriously just count "1 e an a 2 e an..." in your head and play at the right times? The only things I can instantly read on the first try are simple snare drum rhthms like "1 (e and) a 2 (e and) a 3 (e an) a 4 (e) an (a)"
So anyway, tabs are like training wheels. You can ride, but you'll never be able to race. Get rid of those dang tabs.
That's how you start out. Once you've seen a particular rhythmic figure a few times, you recognize it and just play it. Similar to the way you once used to read English a letter at a time, now you see and recognize words or even phrases in chunks. Buy a book of snare drum rudiments and read through it a few times, repeating each rhythm many many times until it is natural and easy. You'll be able to read complex rhythms sooner than you think.
Well, bully for you.
No one system is better than the other. The earliest guitar literature involved tab. It's not some red-headed stepchild. Personal preference is fine. Either way.
