Reading music for bass/guitar

[gtrimprov]

Pianists have it so easy, mentally, when it comes to reading music. They have all the notes sitting there in a single row, and musical notation relates to the layout of those black & white notes on a keyboard.
Not so easy for bassists and guitarists. My reading method is a cumbersome hybrid. Can I do better? Here's what I do.

For positions near the nut, I simply know all the notes. So no problem (except I'm not good at reading complex rhythms, but that's another story).

For higher positions, I don't know all the notes, and use a different approach, which I'll illustrate for the case where the key is Ab major. I know how to play a major scale in a general position on the fingerboard - with different versions to allow for choice of string to have the keynote on. I do know the notes all the way up the lowest string, and can use that to pick a position so that my general way of playing a major scale comes out in Ab (and ideally I won't have to change to another position too often). Now suppose I'm reading a bar with the notes C-Db-Eb; I know that in Ab, C-Db-Eb is mi-fa-so (in terms of do-re-mi and all that); so I play mi-fa-so.

Well it's not a single-stage process. It requires a bit of knowledge of keys, scales and fingerboard. It can facilitate transposing, though. On the other hand, I can struggle greatly with music that isn't really in any key.
If I follow this approach for years, will I end up having learned the notes in all positions?

 

[Gorn]

Why not learn the whole fretboard? You're overcomplicating something that doesn't need to be that complicated.

 

[gtrimprov]

Why not learn the whole fretboard? You're overcomplicating something that doesn't need to be that complicated.

Fair enough. I play more guitar than bass guitar, and for the former learning the whole fretboard is a big challenge.

 

[Gorn]

Fair enough. I play more guitar than bass guitar, and for the former learning the whole fretboard is a big challenge.

I don't know. It sounds to me like you're doing more work to get around not knowing the fretboard than it would take to learn it. Like making three rights because a left is too hard.

 

[MrLenny1]

Learn the whole neck. It will free you up.

 

[saabfender]

Pianists have it so easy, mentally, when it comes to reading music. They have all the notes sitting there in a single row...

Well it's not a single-stage process. It requires a bit of knowledge of keys, scales and fingerboard.

Bass guitarists have it almost as easy. The notes are all there in four rows. You really have it pretty easy. Show me where the notes are on a trombone. Put some effort and learn the pattern of the notes.

Yes, it is a single-stage process. All that scales, keys and stuff is secondary. You need to learn how to play the notes on your instrument. Most non-keyboard instruments have alternative ways of playing several notes. This is for your convenience and advantage. It's not to make things difficult.

Once you learn the notes, then you can get serious about playing music on it.

 

[JRA]

Pianists have it so easy, mentally, when it comes to reading music.

ha! better consult a pianist on that assumption.


i'm with Gorn , saabfender , and MrLenny1 : learning the neck/fretboard will serve you well. good luck!

 

[Gorn]

I understand where the OP is coming from. Working out systems for yourself that seem like the best way to get passed something you haven't properly figured out. I vaguely remember doing something similar before I knew all the notes but did know the shapes. It was before I ever played in a band (just jamming with friends really) and it took a few bars of one song to realize I was going about it the wrong way. Knowing all the notes on the board seems like a lot but once you know it, you know it. And since you already know the bottom frets, you already know the upper ones even though you think you don't. It'll come to you fast once you make a solid effort.

 

[gtrimprov]

Once you learn the notes, then you can get serious about playing music on it.

That's a bit categorical.
Well, I can find all the notes. In some ways, my way of doing it is more musical than learning the whole fretboard in terms of musical notation.

 

[Gorn]

That's a bit categorical.
Well, I can find all the notes. In some ways, my way of doing it is more musical than learning the whole fretboard in terms of musical notation.

It's really not. It's a crutch.

 

[JTE]

I think intervals, not note names frequently. I see a note on the next line and I know it's a third above the one I'm playing. I do know the fingerboard quite well, but thinking names while reading is an additional layer.

 

[Max Blasto]

That's a bit categorical.
Well, I can find all the notes. In some ways, my way of doing it is more musical than learning the whole fretboard in terms of musical notation.

No it's not.

 

[40Hz]

ha! better consult a pianist on that assumption.


i'm with Gorn , saabfender , and MrLenny1 : learning the neck/fretboard will serve you well. good luck!

Keyboard is easier?

With a keyboard all pitches are fixed. If you change keys you need to completely change your fingering every time..

On a bass, pitch is relative. The same fingering pattern applies to your scales. All you need to do to transpose is switch neck position or shift to an alternate scale fingering pattern. I think that's a lot easier. Once you know the patterns of the scales you're going to be using, you have them down for every key as long as you know where you are on the neck.

Bass tuning is also completely symmetrical. Straight ascending fourths - or descending fifths if you prefer. No funny B string to screw up the pretty symmetry. That alone makes it easier than guitar to learn the fingerboard.

tl;dr - +1 with all the others who said it's easiest to just learn the neck.

 

[dreamadream99]

Well, I can find all the notes. In some ways, my way of doing it is more musical than learning the whole fretboard

You won't be able to sightread quickly that way. There is no substitute for instantly knowing where all the notes are. Sure you can use math and shapes and intervals to find a note, but never as quickly as knowing where it is.

 

[devnulljp]

I got this cheesy little app for my phone that quizzes you on music notation in bass clef with notes on the fingerboard. I fiddle with it if I'm ever waiting somewhere or on a bus or something.
Thing is, it worked. I got a theatre type gig, and first rehearsal the BL handed everyone scores. Not chord charts, but actual scores. This was a first for me, but I sightread the whole thing, with only a couple of mistakes.

I'm going to try ot hone that skill I didn't know I had now.

 

[pablotries]

I got this cheesy little app for my phone that quizzes you on music notation in bass clef with notes on the fingerboard.

What app are you using? I've played around a bit with one called Fretboard Learn and another called Music Theory Helper for general reading.

 

[tradernick]

Pianists have it so easy, mentally, when it comes to reading music. They have all the notes sitting there in a single row, and musical notation relates to the layout of those black & white notes on a keyboard.

Yeah, reading polyphony in two different clefs at the same time is way easier than reading a single note line.

 

[devnulljp]

What app are you using? I've played around a bit with one called Fretboard Learn and another called Music Theory Helper for general reading.

Catloaf Fretuoso bass version
I really didn't expect it to make any difference.

 

[gtrimprov]

Yeah, reading polyphony in two different clefs at the same time is way easier than reading a single note line.

Good points. This is where my argument breaks down a bit.

For reading a single note on a single clef, though...
You are right of course that the piano's much greater capability brings significant extra mental duties, and I was disregarding that.

 

[gtrimprov]

Keyboard is easier?

With a keyboard all pitches are fixed. If you change keys you need to completely change your fingering every time..

On a bass, pitch is relative. The same fingering pattern applies to your scales. All you need to do to transpose is switch neck position or shift to an alternate scale fingering pattern. I think that's a lot easier. Once you know the patterns of the scales you're going to be using, you have them down for every key as long as you know where you are on the neck.

Bass tuning is also completely symmetrical. Straight ascending fourths - or descending fifths if you prefer. No funny B string to screw up the pretty symmetry. That alone makes it easier than guitar to learn the fingerboard.

tl;dr - +1 with all the others who said it's easiest to just learn the neck.

I was referring only to the mental side of reading being easier.
Oh, and what you say about pitch being relative on the bass guitar is what my reading approach uses.
And so true what you say about the guitar - the instrument on which I worked out my reading approach.
I reckon that if this discussion were on a guitarists' forum, there'd be fewer advocating "learn the whole fretboard!"