"Real" bands and "selling out" your thoughts...

[pbassnut]

I don't believe in the whole "selling out" thing. Musicians are people who, like most, need to make a living in an industry that is very difficult to do so. There are uber fans out there who are clueless as to the nature of trying to survive in a very tough bizniz and seem to prefer that their favorite artists "suffer for their art" rather than become a mainstream success.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Let's not kid ourselves, a professional band is a business entity. The purpose is to make money through artistic endevours.

Selling out is often measured by jealous third parties by the degree of success that the band has. It can be measured by the musical direction that the band takes. This often comes down to business decisions made in an attempt to, you guessed it, obtain more lucrative results.

 

[Altitude]

I've played in some original bands with outstanding players and wonderful songwriting, usually to the bar staff and the same 6 or 8 people every show.

I've also played in cover bands with less outstanding musicians and obvious set material, usually to a room full of excited, enthusiastic people digging every note.

If I'm honest, it's more fun to play to people than to the walls.

 

[Chasarms]

Oh the irony.

There are countless bands out there that made it to success with a "unique sound" and truly creative music. Over time, they continue to write and produce music, perhaps take a different direction musically, and for whatever reason, they become less popular. But, they continue to write, produce records and tour to support those records.

At their concerts, they want to promote as much of their newer music as possible, but instead they "sell out" by playing the old, "real" music that the people who came to the show want to hear.

Every band or solo artist that makes it far enough to have a career in the industry has made plenty of compromises in order to get there. If making choices that protect your career constitutes "selling out," there are very, very few who are not sell outs.

 

[Rickter]

How do you define selling out? What the hell is a "real" metal band, or real (pick a genre) band for that matter?

My questions stem from reading through a troll's comments that repeatedly contradicted himself in a Facebook diatribe on a post regarding the band, Five Finger Death Punch. It was worth a laugh, but as I look back on it MANY people I know that grew up listening to metal during the 1980's have strong feelings about what real metal is.

I have often associated these nebulous terms with Metallica and how their career progressed. They started being considered "sellouts" around the period of the "Black Album" when the new album was more heavily polished and produced as well as being written/geared more toward general consumption and airplay as opposed to their previous work. Megadeth sort of got the label too after they started writing movie themes and songs meant for sporting events.

Funny how the term "sellout" seems to only be applicable in the Metal world.... You don't hear people talking about their Jazz hero being a sellout....

I take that back, I have heard some from the Country world use the term, and pretty much in the same sense, when an artist changes their material seemingly in an effort to gain a wider degree of mainstream acceptance.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Not specific to Heavy Metal. Henry Rollins was addressing Punk Rock "sellouts" in his video.

capitalizing Country, but not "metal" is sort of odd

 

[SteveHeissner]

"Selling out" = adapting to reality. One who can't adapt may go extinct. Stay thirsty, my friends.

 

[SteveHeissner]

I've played in some original bands with outstanding players and wonderful songwriting, usually to the bar staff and the same 6 or 8 people every show.

I've also played in cover bands with less outstanding musicians and obvious set material, usually to a room full of excited, enthusiastic people digging every note.

If I'm honest, it's more fun to play to people than to the walls.

YES. SO TRUE... LOL!!! Eloquently stated, my friend.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

A "real" band passes the large cheese pizza test for its members - a large cheese pizza can feed a family of four. Below that, it's a hobby.

 

[lokikallas]

IMO an artist sells out the moment they get paid. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

I've played in some original bands with outstanding players and wonderful songwriting, usually to the bar staff and the same 6 or 8 people every show.

I've also played in cover bands with less outstanding musicians and obvious set material, usually to a room full of excited, enthusiastic people digging every note.

If I'm honest, it's more fun to play to people than to the walls.

USA seem to prefer to hear cover band and so the same 10 songs over and over again instead of new music. Their lost I think.

 

[mellowinman]

"I Was Made For Lovin' You," Kiss-Disco LOL

I thought of that too, but figured, what did KISS ever do that wasn't a blatant attempt at selling out?

 

[Funky Ghost]

I've never understood the inclusion of "out" in this context. The goal of a band is to sell. If change facilitates that, then the smart money says change. Car models change year after year. Clothes change year after year. Why is it a bad thing if a band does the same thing? If they sell, then clearly the market has spoken. If a few "purists" are left behind, perhaps the issue lies within them, not the band.

 

[JRA]

selling out = what you hope to be able to do if you're a musician.
or,
selling out = what you are afraid of if you're not.

IME.

 

[Rickter]

Would seem maybe that a niche band that has a new/interesting sound/style eventually grows in popularity, the more people that hear the new sound/style the more people seek to incorporate it into their own work, ad infinitum and the new thing becomes the standard/expected. So the progenitor has to find something ELSE to set themselves apart, usually meaning a radical departure from what caught their fan base's ear/attention to begin with. The more I think about it, much of what some people label as selling out would seem to be personal growth or possibly the result of no longer being unknown.

There will always be those that play what they do because it is either what they believe will be a big seller or they've been told it will be a big seller.

 

[Rickter]

Not specific to Heavy Metal. Henry Rollins was addressing Punk Rock "sellouts" in his video.

capitalizing Country, but not "metal" is sort of odd

I fixt it...

 

[tlc1976]

IMO "selling out" is when you go from playing what you really want, to what everyone else wants you to do. Some don't care as long they're making money, or maybe even enjoy the publicity and considering having finally "made it". If they love it, then great. Others felt locked into contracts or other pressure, burned out from it, only to come back years later and play small shows at their own will.

Lots of singers and bands dabbled in disco, and had an 80s phase. Need to change with the times, or let your career fade away. I read something on Heart where they are glad that phase is over and now they can perform how they really want.

I see plenty of country artists "selling out", but the industry just calls them a crossover.

 

[Altitude]

USA seem to prefer to hear cover band and so the same 10 songs over and over again instead of new music. Their lost I think.

I agree completely and I get why a guy like Gary Willis moved to Barcelona.

For those of us who live in the scene here, this is the choice we're faced with.

 

[mrcbass]

I've never understood the inclusion of "out" in this context. The goal of a band is to sell. If change facilitates that, then the smart money says change. Car models change year after year. Clothes change year after year. Why is it a bad thing if a band does the same thing? If they sell, then clearly the market has spoken. If a few "purists" are left behind, perhaps the issue lies within them, not the band.

"Change" doesn't equal "Sell Out"

Change is great. All of my favorite artists have at least three "eras" of styles, some many more. As lineups change or new ideas come along, a band's sound should grow and evolve. Many bands that I generally like, don't get into my "top" list because all of their stuff tends to have the same formula and sound the same. These artists are sell outs IMO - "this formula works - no need to challenge ourselves, just keep doing the same thing".

It's when they stop being creative or completely abandon their core values/approaches to conform to commercial trends that it becomes a "sell out" situation. Nothing wrong with making money - who doesn't need money and I can't imagine a single part timer/hobbiest who wouldn't love to make a full time living playing music. It's when it becomes a situation when it's only about the money and not about the love of the art that it crosses the line.

And while I guess it would technically be considered "selling out" just to be in a cover band, it's a little different. Yeah, we're not creating new music, just regurgitating what others want to hear. But, you kind of have to be "in" in the first place before you can sell "out".

 

[Funky Ghost]

"Change" doesn't equal "Sell Out"

Change is great. All of my favorite artists have at least three "eras" of styles, some many more. As lineups change or new ideas come along, a band's sound should grow and evolve. Many bands that I generally like, don't get into my "top" list because all of their stuff tends to have the same formula and sound the same. These artists are sell outs IMO - "this formula works - no need to challenge ourselves, just keep doing the same thing".

It's when they stop being creative or completely abandon their core values/approaches to conform to commercial trends that it becomes a "sell out" situation. Nothing wrong with making money - who doesn't need money and I can't imagine a single part timer/hobbiest who wouldn't love to make a full time living playing music. It's when it becomes a situation when it's only about the money and not about the love of the art that it crosses the line.

And while I guess it would technically be considered "selling out" just to be in a cover band, it's a little different. Yeah, we're not creating new music, just regurgitating what others want to hear. But, you kind of have to be "in" in the first place before you can sell "out".

I'm not sure if any band willingly stops being creative. Our music is a creative process. It may be differently creative or even systematically creative but it's not a lack of creativity. I do understand the gist of what you're on about. It's the perception of "easy mode" or going with what works instead of pushing the envelope, so to speak. The ironic thing with that is if a band constantly pushes the envelope they will evolve into something "else" which may not be in the genre they started in thus bringing the ire of "purist" fans who think they left their "core values" behind.

So, to expose my hypocritical view, I much prefer drugged out of their skulls early Aerosmith. I perceive the elevator - power ballad music they churned out after their "comeback" as weaksauce and of the sell-out variety. But, it allowed Tyler to by a McLaren P1 so I would think he doesn't give a rip what I think