Hey there. Before i start, let me say that this post isn't intended as an attack or to tick anyone off. However, it probably will offend someone, so I apologize in advance. No offense intended. While I think most of what I'll touch on are hard facts, they still are my opinions, and i invite you to chime in with yours. The fact that I'm an admitted know-it-all at times means i might attempt to refute any counter-claims, but I'll be nice about it. 
A lot of players here are young and/or inexperienced, and just don't know some of this stuff. Some others are older and/or more experienced, and (should) know better. However, I think that maturity and rational thinking trump age in the following points. I know many 15 year old players who are much more mature and together than some 40 year old players. (Hey, we are talking about musicians here, and some of us are pretty odd ducks -
)
1st off, ours is an expensive hobby any way you slice it. Basses and amps cost a lot of money, good gear costs a whole lot of money, and really great stuff costs tons of money. But how much is a lot? Remember, when it comes to musical intruments, electric basses and their amps are pretty cheap. Go price out some beginner, mid level, and professional double basses, saxophones, oboes, pianos, etc, and get back to me with how expensive our stuff is.
Anyhow, this is the amps forum, so lets stick to amps. Amps are expensive at many different levels, and all of us have income ranges, budgets, and degrees of return financially (i.e., money from gigs, recording, etc.) that we get from playing. Some of us are full time musicians, many of us are part time giggers, and some of us play just for the heck of it. Deciding how much we're willing to fork over on amps, cabs, etc is going to depend upon our income, return on playing, and our entire financial picture.
I'll never suggest going into debt or making stupid desicions to buy gear you really can't afford. Lots of us have had to "settle for" amplifiers that don't have the tone or volume we want, and that's OK. Just be aware that you cant expect components to perform in ways they were never intended to (like attempting to get a 25 watt 1x10" combo to cut it in a medium volume rock band on its own) without having them fail to do so, or worse, having them break int the attempt. To be even more mature, don't get upset at the item, at the manufacturer, at those of us at TB who told you that the aforementioned combo wasn't going to perform like a full on SVT, and at the rest of the world!
That said, you get what you pay for. There are some great values to be had out there, and the used market can be wonderfull, but there is a limit to how cheap you can go. Only a small % of the population buys bass gear, so the parts used aren't mass produced enough to make them a cheap as pepsi and gillette razors. The more esoteric and quality the parts, the more expensive they become on an exponential basis. Also, simple economics 101 keeps the price of new and used amplification in line right where it "should" be.
Some inexpensive preamps, speakers, etc sound surprisingly good, and a lot of cheap stuff sounds, well, cheap. On the other end of the scale, well designed circuits and cabinets made with quality components can sound awesome. Want awesome tone? Be prepared to pay for it.
One caveat; don't fall into the trap of thinking that getting phenomenal gear will somehow magically make you a better player. It won't. That's what practice is for. There's nothing quite like watching a guy with ten thousand dollars worth of axe and amplification fumble his way through "mustang sally"
Be prepared to pay for performance in terms of volume as well. This may mean lots of watts, efficent, well voiced cabinets, multiple cabinets, big cabinets, etc. Also, Be realistic in your expectations of your gear when it comes to volume. Too often the same cats who understand full well that a KIA isn't going to be capable of the speed and handling of a ferrarri get upset when told that their 200 watt amp with a 2x10" cabinet isn't going to be as loud as a 2000 watt poweramp driving four cabinets. You can tell them that in their ultra-loud "death metal" band that if they have that 200 watt 2x10" rig turned on or off the effect will be the same, but they'll refuse to belive it. Worse, They'll get upset when it doesn't perform, turn it up until they toast the speakers, and then flame the amp company on TB the next day saying that their stuff is no good!
On a related note, a word about PA systems. It is very true that a good PA is a thing of beauty. A quality PA that can handle the bass guitar can sound wonderful, and if it's powerful enough, you can get away with a much smaller amplifier system. In fact, in a perfect world all of us would have access to a soundman with one of these PA systems, the sound of our band would be incredible, and we could show up to all of our gigs with a combo in one hand, and our bass in the other.
But hold up just one second. If you think a high wattage bass amp rig is expensive, go price out a PA that can handle full responsibility for bass guitar amplification at medium to high volumes and get back to me. Heck, go price out stage monitors capable of doing bass guitar monitoring duty. Anyhow, those PAs aren't just expensive, they're big, bulky and heavy. So, when you decide that you don't need a big amp to do medium to high volume gigs because "the PA will handle it", just who is this guy who has the responsibility to buy, carry, and operate this monster, and exactly why does he owe you this?
Fortunately, today more than ever, modular bass amp systems are available in a wide variety of options. This means that we don't have to buy everything at once, we can upgrade slowly as our budget allows, and we don't have to bring eveything to gigs which dont require it. Some gigs we can bring a small head and one cabinet, bigger ones we can bring two cabs and a head, and to still larger gigs we can bring a pre/power setup with two or more cabs.
Which brings me to the final issues of size and weight. Guess what? Bass amplification is more or less big and heavy! True, there are a ton of small and lightweight options available today, some of which have incredible performance. However, there are limits to just how well they can perform, (remember the KIA?). This is more like comparing a compact Toyota pickup to a Mack truck. Sure, today's lightweight trucks can do some amazing things, but you go ahead and drop ten tons of gravel into yours and get back to me.
There are some great alternative designs out there for high powered amps. There is still a raging debate over traditional heavy amps vs lighter designs in terms of tone. This thread isn't the place to argue that (go look and you can find the appropriate ones - ). I'll just say this. If you decide that you feel that the heavier amps sound better, get one. If you decide not to because of weight, that's cool, but don't gripe about the tone you have. You don't get something for nothing.
More to the point would be speaker cabinets. As stated many times in other threads, when it comes to speaker cabinets you can have any two of the following three in one cab, but not all three at once: Low (as in low frequency response), Loud, and Small. (Notice that it's small and not light, there are some great lightweight cabs with neo drivers that are low and loud, but they're not really small). If you want smaller cabinets, there are some great "almost all three" designs out there, but no dice. you'll still have to choose between low and loud. Just don't gripe and complain about it, (or get one cab of each type). If you want a cabinet that's really loud and has fantastic low end response, guess what? It's gonna be big. Get over it, haul that sucker around, and smile.
So that's it. You get what you pay for, there is no such thing as a free lunch, and best of all, "you canna change the laws of physics captain!" -
A lot of players here are young and/or inexperienced, and just don't know some of this stuff. Some others are older and/or more experienced, and (should) know better. However, I think that maturity and rational thinking trump age in the following points. I know many 15 year old players who are much more mature and together than some 40 year old players. (Hey, we are talking about musicians here, and some of us are pretty odd ducks -
)1st off, ours is an expensive hobby any way you slice it. Basses and amps cost a lot of money, good gear costs a whole lot of money, and really great stuff costs tons of money. But how much is a lot? Remember, when it comes to musical intruments, electric basses and their amps are pretty cheap. Go price out some beginner, mid level, and professional double basses, saxophones, oboes, pianos, etc, and get back to me with how expensive our stuff is.
Anyhow, this is the amps forum, so lets stick to amps. Amps are expensive at many different levels, and all of us have income ranges, budgets, and degrees of return financially (i.e., money from gigs, recording, etc.) that we get from playing. Some of us are full time musicians, many of us are part time giggers, and some of us play just for the heck of it. Deciding how much we're willing to fork over on amps, cabs, etc is going to depend upon our income, return on playing, and our entire financial picture.
I'll never suggest going into debt or making stupid desicions to buy gear you really can't afford. Lots of us have had to "settle for" amplifiers that don't have the tone or volume we want, and that's OK. Just be aware that you cant expect components to perform in ways they were never intended to (like attempting to get a 25 watt 1x10" combo to cut it in a medium volume rock band on its own) without having them fail to do so, or worse, having them break int the attempt. To be even more mature, don't get upset at the item, at the manufacturer, at those of us at TB who told you that the aforementioned combo wasn't going to perform like a full on SVT, and at the rest of the world!
That said, you get what you pay for. There are some great values to be had out there, and the used market can be wonderfull, but there is a limit to how cheap you can go. Only a small % of the population buys bass gear, so the parts used aren't mass produced enough to make them a cheap as pepsi and gillette razors. The more esoteric and quality the parts, the more expensive they become on an exponential basis. Also, simple economics 101 keeps the price of new and used amplification in line right where it "should" be.
Some inexpensive preamps, speakers, etc sound surprisingly good, and a lot of cheap stuff sounds, well, cheap. On the other end of the scale, well designed circuits and cabinets made with quality components can sound awesome. Want awesome tone? Be prepared to pay for it.
One caveat; don't fall into the trap of thinking that getting phenomenal gear will somehow magically make you a better player. It won't. That's what practice is for. There's nothing quite like watching a guy with ten thousand dollars worth of axe and amplification fumble his way through "mustang sally"
Be prepared to pay for performance in terms of volume as well. This may mean lots of watts, efficent, well voiced cabinets, multiple cabinets, big cabinets, etc. Also, Be realistic in your expectations of your gear when it comes to volume. Too often the same cats who understand full well that a KIA isn't going to be capable of the speed and handling of a ferrarri get upset when told that their 200 watt amp with a 2x10" cabinet isn't going to be as loud as a 2000 watt poweramp driving four cabinets. You can tell them that in their ultra-loud "death metal" band that if they have that 200 watt 2x10" rig turned on or off the effect will be the same, but they'll refuse to belive it. Worse, They'll get upset when it doesn't perform, turn it up until they toast the speakers, and then flame the amp company on TB the next day saying that their stuff is no good!
On a related note, a word about PA systems. It is very true that a good PA is a thing of beauty. A quality PA that can handle the bass guitar can sound wonderful, and if it's powerful enough, you can get away with a much smaller amplifier system. In fact, in a perfect world all of us would have access to a soundman with one of these PA systems, the sound of our band would be incredible, and we could show up to all of our gigs with a combo in one hand, and our bass in the other.
But hold up just one second. If you think a high wattage bass amp rig is expensive, go price out a PA that can handle full responsibility for bass guitar amplification at medium to high volumes and get back to me. Heck, go price out stage monitors capable of doing bass guitar monitoring duty. Anyhow, those PAs aren't just expensive, they're big, bulky and heavy. So, when you decide that you don't need a big amp to do medium to high volume gigs because "the PA will handle it", just who is this guy who has the responsibility to buy, carry, and operate this monster, and exactly why does he owe you this?
Fortunately, today more than ever, modular bass amp systems are available in a wide variety of options. This means that we don't have to buy everything at once, we can upgrade slowly as our budget allows, and we don't have to bring eveything to gigs which dont require it. Some gigs we can bring a small head and one cabinet, bigger ones we can bring two cabs and a head, and to still larger gigs we can bring a pre/power setup with two or more cabs.
Which brings me to the final issues of size and weight. Guess what? Bass amplification is more or less big and heavy! True, there are a ton of small and lightweight options available today, some of which have incredible performance. However, there are limits to just how well they can perform, (remember the KIA?). This is more like comparing a compact Toyota pickup to a Mack truck. Sure, today's lightweight trucks can do some amazing things, but you go ahead and drop ten tons of gravel into yours and get back to me.
There are some great alternative designs out there for high powered amps. There is still a raging debate over traditional heavy amps vs lighter designs in terms of tone. This thread isn't the place to argue that (go look and you can find the appropriate ones -
). I'll just say this. If you decide that you feel that the heavier amps sound better, get one. If you decide not to because of weight, that's cool, but don't gripe about the tone you have. You don't get something for nothing. More to the point would be speaker cabinets. As stated many times in other threads, when it comes to speaker cabinets you can have any two of the following three in one cab, but not all three at once: Low (as in low frequency response), Loud, and Small. (Notice that it's small and not light, there are some great lightweight cabs with neo drivers that are low and loud, but they're not really small). If you want smaller cabinets, there are some great "almost all three" designs out there, but no dice. you'll still have to choose between low and loud. Just don't gripe and complain about it, (or get one cab of each type).
If you want a cabinet that's really loud and has fantastic low end response, guess what? It's gonna be big. Get over it, haul that sucker around, and smile. So that's it. You get what you pay for, there is no such thing as a free lunch, and best of all, "you canna change the laws of physics captain!" -
the first time i played a tube amp i realized how much i sucked, and what needed to be made better, and i took care of them.
