• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Reality Check - Amp price, performance, tone, volume, size, weight, etc.

#61
lo-freq said:
I totally agree with your last sentence.
Who likes what & why? ...very subjective.

As for your first statement, I spent a lot of time on TB researching just in case I could work out a way to get just an 'upper middle of the road' kind of system that worked for me.
Then I went and listened to as much as I could.
I think I was very lucky in that what I ended up with is not what would be my ideal system just to listen to in my office at home, but in a live band setting, it just sounds wonderful to me.
Since I don't do solo live performances, for me, the live band setting is where the rubber meets the road, as they say.

My main two objectives with a bass system is to be able to hear myself on stage as well as possible and secondly that the tone I hear would help to put me and my playing in 'the Groove Zone'.
That's when my A$$ starts shaking (and others' usually follow).
Click to expand...


It's great that you found a rig that works for you in a band setting, that is what I judge a rig on as well. My point was not that there was anything wrong with high end gear I hope my post did'nt read that way. My point was that even though you settled on a particular rig to satisfy your needs, other bass players have satisfied the exact same need with a totally different rig sometimes more expensive sometimes less expensive.
 
#62
IvanMike said:
On a related note, a word about PA systems. It is very true that a good PA is a thing of beauty. A quality PA that can handle the bass guitar can sound wonderful, and if it's powerful enough, you can get away with a much smaller amplifier system. In fact, in a perfect world all of us would have access to a soundman with one of these PA systems, the sound of our band would be incredible, and we could show up to all of our gigs with a combo in one hand, and our bass in the other.

But hold up just one second. If you think a high wattage bass amp rig is expensive, go price out a PA that can handle full responsibility for bass guitar amplification at medium to high volumes and get back to me. Heck, go price out stage monitors capable of doing bass guitar monitoring duty. Anyhow, those PAs aren't just expensive, they're big, bulky and heavy. So, when you decide that you don't need a big amp to do medium to high volume gigs because "the PA will handle it", just who is this guy who has the responsibility to buy, carry, and operate this monster, and exactly why does he owe you this? :ninja:

All things being equal, one would hope that there would be a good system and a competent soundman behind the board. As a former mixologist, I had to shake my head at all the guys who thought that their system should cover the whole room. I then would have to try my best to compensate for Mr Ego. Sometimes it worked, and then there were the other times...

So of course we should all have the best amplification we can afford... but let the soundman do his work ;)

-Doug
Click to expand...
 
#63
IvanMike said:
...The one thing that i resent are those clubs that have no buisiness and use bands to get customers in the place by "drawing their crowd". That's OK, but too often those clubs treat/pay bands much worse than those that have customers no matter what. :mad:
Click to expand...

Wow! That is SOOOO true! We were burned by two different bars that way!:mad:

We had booked a month of weekends at one spot and only ended up playing 1-1/2 nights because we didn't get paid (for the FIRST night). We packed and walked. Ended up taking over a week to get paid for just those 2 nights (played 1-1/2--charged for 2)!

Guess we shoulda opened our eyes a little more BEFORE we made those deals.:rollno:
 
#65
IvanMike said:
If I hired workmen to build an addition to my house, i would expect them to bring tools adequate for the job. Imagine if they showed up and told me, "well, we brought a hammer and some nails, but if you want us to do a quality job you should have provided us with the power tools we really need". :eek:

Our amplifiers are one of our tools for providing quality sound for those who hire us. IMO, unless some kind of fair and equitable arrangement is made otherwise, we're responsible for bringing tools (amps) adequate to provide quality sound, both in terms of tone and volume.
Click to expand...


In my experience, there is no other profession so unprofessional as artists (especially musicians) with a good percentage of "garage bands" advancing out into the market place and just showing up at gigs with little understanding of what's expected of them. The best way to be prepared is to LEARN FROM OTHERS WITH EXPERIENCE (like the people on this forum) and one of the things you learn is that you do need to bring the proper tools as well as ability if you're expecting to get paid regularly.

Having said that, there are also a great many clueless venue owners/managers who create problems even for experienced, knowledgable musicians by not knowing how to host a band or what is involved with putting on a show. This is such a common occurance to show up at a venue and discover that the things you were told were available (sound guy, PA, stage, electricity, etc...) were not there that I ALWAYS assume that we'll need to bring backup gear and have a list of "plan B's" available whenever we go to an unknown venue or deal with an unknown contact. This should also be considered mandatory tools of the trade for paid musicians. I've found that some of the best gigs to get are with a trusted club that you've dealt with before and not only does that make your job as musicians less stressful but it's a great way to build and expand a base of loyal fans.
 
#66
WalterBush said:
I'm not sure why club owners aren't concerned about quality, except that their patrons often aren't, either, or don't know any better. One of the reasons my metal band has something of a draw is that we bring our own PA, plunked down the bucks on our gear, work on the balance between volume and frequencies out front, and deliver a good, loud show. Unfortunately, a lot of bar owners, patrons, and bands, are willing to settle for much less, and don't know what they're missing until they're shown differently.
Click to expand...

Speaking completely as a patron I have never, ever, in my entire life been to a venue that had what I would consider decent sound. This isn't just for the Bay Area, but everywhere in the country where I've gone to rock shows of various types and with a wide variety of different bands from small local acts to (inter)national tours.

The problem is generally that sheer volume is considered king. Everything louder than everything else. In the end this means that vocals are more or less incomprehensible and washed out to the point that you have no idea what the vocals are unless you already know the song by heart... and then you'll probably have to guess a bit. Instruments are generally indistinct unless they're playing a solo and the bass is buried so much that it seems like they might as well not even have a bassist most of the time. Honestly, a lot of the time you get better sound standing outside (or in extreme cases even across the street) just because you can finally start to actually hear some variety in the sound.

My girlfriend won't even go to shows because she finds it intolerably loud and complains that bands just sound better on recordings. I'm only 26 myself and I recently bought myself a good quality pair of earplugs from Etymotic Research (the kind that don't just muffle everything, but lower the volume while retaining quality) because I came home from a show with my ears ringing until the next day one too many times and realized that if I didn't start protecting my hearing now, I wouldn't have to worry about protecting it in the future.

So, loud, yeah, but keep in mind always that you don't just want to be loud you want to sound good. If you're a small band just making a name for yourself give me a show where I can actually understand why you have lyrics and where going to the show is actually worth it compared to just getting some demo tracks online.
 
#67
Belgand, you're unfortunately correct. Good timing to rehash this thread. I had a bad experience last night with a sound guy who for some reason, defies the rule that says bad sound guys get weeded out of the industry. He's been around long enough now that he's not going anywhere, but he's also just as un-talented as he ever was! His philosophy goes something like this, and I quote - "Get the kick drum so it's thumping people through out the room in the chest, then bring the band up to a similar SPL if possible. If not, don't worry, the kick drum it all that matters." The result is usually DREADFUL!

I'm actually contemplating pulling the pin on this particular gig, which is a shame because it's been a long-running Sunday residency. But I'm over it now and the PA is 95% of the reason. Someone else can put up with this guy pushing the kick until he runs out of talent...............
 
#68
A lot of it starts with the band knowing their EQ points within the band's mix and style, and playing parts that compliment each other rather than strive for your bedroom low-volume tone you're used to, trample all over each other musically, or all play the same thing.

There are venues from small club to arena in my city that *can* have killer sound. It'll vary depending on the band and their soundman, but when it sounds crappy I know it isn't the venue if other bands have sounded fantastic there.

As for earplugs, they're a must whenever going out. You just never know when you'll be blindsided by a hot mix and too much volume. I can understand where you're girlfriend is coming from on that score. It's sad when a bassist is flailing away and you honestly can't tell if they're even plugged-in. Especially if you're primarily going to see rock bands, most of which are very guilty of what I wrote initially in the post.
 
#69
I have found reading this thread - interesting. I guess things must be very different down south than it is here in the far north. Here if I roll up to a gig and find there is a PA it is the exception rather than the rule. A sound man you say? I haven't actually seen one for a few years. Usually if there IS a PA it is a piece of crap that may handle vocals but only just at that!. Most bands in the Toronto area carry their own PA. As a vocalist as well as I bassist I bought my own.

When I play a gig I bring the gear that I know will do any job. If it is too much, I either leave the extra stuff in the van or play very quietly. Whatever suits. I feel that it is MY responsibility to bring to the gig every thing that I need to fulfill my obligation to the other musicians. That includes spares. The only thing the club is responsible for is supplying enough electricity and the pay at the end of the night.

It seem to me just too many bassists expect others to supply all sorts of stuff from a PA to spare cables or extension cords.

That's my take.

Paul
 
#70
here is another point sese you were mentioning cars.bass gear is big and require sufficiant transportation ato get around. dumb me bought an 8x10 and i have no way of moveing it around so now i have to save up for a nice smaller cab just for rehersals and the smaller gigs that dont need an 8x10 anyways.
 
#71
Hi all,
I hope I'm in the right forum. I know you'll tell me if I'm not !
I'm trying to find the "ideal" amp head to drive the following cabs:

Ampeg SVT410HE

&

Acoustic B115

Any ideas or suggestions? Let's assume that money is not an issue here.
thanks guys very much in advance.
Bob
 
#73
IvanMike said:
Actually, the more i think about it, the more i disagree even with this.

If I hired workmen to build an addition to my house, i would expect them to bring tools adequate for the job. Imagine if they showed up and told me, "well, we brought a hammer and some nails, but if you want us to do a quality job you should have provided us with the power tools we really need". :eek:

Our amplifiers are one of our tools for providing quality sound for those who hire us. IMO, unless some kind of fair and equitable arrangement is made otherwise, we're responsible for bringing tools (amps) adequate to provide quality sound, both in terms of tone and volume.
Click to expand...
logical captain..
 
#76
Only a small % of the population buys bass gear, so the parts used aren't mass produced enough to make them a cheap as pepsi and gillette razors. The more esoteric and quality the parts, the more expensive they become on an exponential basis. Also, simple economics 101 keeps the price of new and used amplification in line right where it "should" be.
Click to expand...

Gonna have to disagree with that. A majority of the parts in any amplifier are fairly standard. You don't need "bass capacitors," for example. Almost every internal component is mass produced in such a way that each one costs a manufacturer pennies, if not less for the large manufacturers (even for very high quality components). The really expensive bits are probably the transformers, but as technology moves beyond the 1960's you'll find that they aren't vital components (new class D amps come to mind).

Here's what you really pay for: R&D, assembly, brand name. That's it. You still "get what you pay for," not in terms of physical materials but in terms of engineering, careful assembly, and quality control.

EDIT: Holy old thread Batman!
 
#77
More to the point would be speaker cabinets. As stated many times in other threads, when it comes to speaker cabinets you can have any two of the following three in one cab, but not all three at once: Low (as in low frequency response), Loud, and Small. (Notice that it's small and not light, there are some great lightweight cabs with neo drivers that are low and loud, but they're not really small). If you want smaller cabinets, there are some great "almost all three" designs out there, but no dice. you'll still have to choose between low and loud. Just don't gripe and complain about it, (or get one cab of each type). Link Removed If you want a cabinet that's really loud and has fantastic low end response, guess what? It's gonna be big. Get over it, haul that sucker around, and smile.
Click to expand...

My composite fEARful 15/6 *is* light, loud and low. 39LBS of thunder. Paired up with my bx1500 (900w at 10LBS) my rig is 50LBS and is loud enough to be used anywhere I will ever play.

amprig1.gif
 
#78
IvanMike said:
One caveat; don't fall into the trap of thinking that getting phenomenal gear will somehow magically make you a better player. It won't. That's what practice is for. There's nothing quite like watching a guy with ten thousand dollars worth of axe and amplification fumble his way through "mustang sally" :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I choose to completely ignore your statement


:D
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back