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Double Bass Really nice preamp

flatback

flatback

May 6, 2004
2,990
2,667
#1
Seeing that Larry G uses one of these straight into a powered speaker, seems like a good starting point for further investigation...anybody have any experience? Seems like the right size, right price and gets stellar reviews. i wonder how it sounds with a Heil pr 40 into it then into the focus? I wonder if like the Avalon U5 it does for a mic signal what that does for a hi Z?
Anybody got one?
Also I just got a Apogee Duet and was thinking that a stereo pair into the RNP might make a great live recording rig?
 
#6
ah, i see. I thought you owned one.

I'm thinking of going back to the pre/power setup. Any "really nice" pres out there? Ideally I'd like something with a high pass filter, a good DI, a nice eq section. Could be tube or solid state, doesn't really matter. The FMR is out of the question -- I need something that can shape the signal a bit before i send it to a power amp.

thoughts/comments/suggestions?
 
#9
The problem with a multi-megohm input on an amp or preamp is that you start to get a lot of cable noise and rolloff of highs. It's better to mount a simple high-Z preamp as close as possible to the piezo, and then run a low-Z cable into a standard amp input.

J. Donald Tillman did a very simple preamp that can be built into a 1/4" plug and phantom powered:

http://www.till.com/articles/PreampCable/index.html

I built a number of these and they're great.
 
#10
shwashwa said:
the rnp looks good but for me the 1meg ohm inputs arent quite high enough for piezo pups. i have the pz pre with 2x 10meg ohm inputs, eq section and hp filter. i like it alot. the rnp does look interesting though and you never know till you try
Click to expand...
the concept I am going for is the really nice MIC PREAMP not the hi z preamp.
I have occasionally tried a high end channel strip into my Focus/W10 and with a good mic it sounds great but its 3 rack spaces and about 50 lbs. I guess what I am thinking is can you get more from your favorite mic if you get a higher end mic pre (this one has better audio and is tiny) and it is dual so it can be used for remote recording (I've been getting into recording everything lately with an Apogee Duet and laptop.) OR is there very little difference between this box and what is already in the Focus?
 
#11
flatback said:
Seeing that Larry G uses one of these straight into a powered speaker, seems like a good starting point for further investigation...anybody have any experience? Seems like the right size, right price and gets stellar reviews. i wonder how it sounds with a Heil pr 40 into it then into the focus? I wonder if like the Avalon U5 it does for a mic signal what that does for a hi Z?
Anybody got one?
Also I just got a Apogee Duet and was thinking that a stereo pair into the RNP might make a great live recording rig?
Click to expand...
flatback said:
the concept I am going for is the really nice MIC PREAMP not the hi z preamp.
I have occasionally tried a high end channel strip into my Focus/W10 and with a good mic it sounds great but its 3 rack spaces and about 50 lbs. I guess what I am thinking is can you get more from your favorite mic if you get a higher end mic pre (this one has better audio and is tiny) and it is dual so it can be used for remote recording (I've been getting into recording everything lately with an Apogee Duet and laptop.) OR is there very little difference between this box and what is already in the Focus?
Click to expand...
:D

flatback I have been wondering the exact same thing recently, also prompted by studying some of the posts and pics re: Larry Grenadier's setup, and as you said the excellent reviews for the FMR RNP. Bumped it to the top of my wish list. Hopefully people who have used it w/ a mic for DB will chime in.

I suppose you could use the second channel for a pickup, yes? 1 Mohm, no high pass, etc., but ... it's got me thinking, and like you said, more for the mic side of the equation.

For those that haven't seen it, Link Removed about Larry and the FMR RNP from another forum.
 
#12
Thanks for sharing those pics Steve. It helps to see how all the components work together.

I am currently auditioning preamps for my use with my Full Circle. I'm lucky enough that one of the preamps is in stock at a local store, and the second one is being sent to me by the manufacturer on a trial basis, free of charge, which I found pretty remarkable.

With preamps that are custom built, such as the FMR RNP, it's quite difficult to try before you buy. However, given my recent experience I would consider contacting the folks at FMR to see if they could send out a loaner for a week or two.

EDIT: FMR audio offers a 30 day trial period directly through their website.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#14
Hello to you all,
to add my bit to this story: when using my Realist with a Mackie SRM350, I went through a Phil Jones Bass Buddy and to me it worked really good. Much better than most bass amps, in fact. But I fell head over heels for using mic (only). In this case I'd use Sennheiser e614 on a small stand, going through Art TubeMP. (I saw Jason Roebke from Chicago using this mic with this preamp into a GK rb800+Hartke 4x10 and it sounded fantastic. The very next day I ordered my mic and pre.)
 
#15
I would suggest using a small mic pre ( the presonus tube or art or another very small one) (without any tone shaping) and then use a single rack space parametric eq. Yes, there are better quality pre's out there, but for live use, the quality of mic or eq are the weaker links. Using a mic live requires a LOT of eq if you are playing at a reasonable volume. I have a Symetrix single rack space eq. Five bands of fully parametric plus high pass filter. With the 5 bands, you can notch out two, and use the other 3 bands for tone shaping. Or whatever. But given the multiple possibilities for feedback and weird resonances, 5 bands of parametric aren't overkill.
 
#16
Mike Arnopol said:
I would suggest using a small mic pre ( the presonus tube or art or another very small one) (without any tone shaping) and then use a single rack space parametric eq. Yes, there are better quality pre's out there, but for live use, the quality of mic or eq are the weaker links.
Click to expand...
Thanks Mike. Might have to give this a go w/ my Beyer M 88.

I guess I always shied away from the ART units fearing you get what you pay for. But there is a noticeable gap in between say the ART at the lowest price and the next step up like the FMR RNP or the Summit Audio 2BA-221. Presonus is kind of in the middle I guess.

I've got a D-TAR Solstice that I think I will put through its paces as a mic pre into my Focus. Once I got the 2 channel Focus, I put the D-TAR away 'cuz I didn't need its blending capabilities anymore. But maybe they will work well together. If I discover anything astoundingly good, I'll report back. I do recall that cutting the mid EQ did allow me more volume b4 feedback w/ the mic, but it cut out too much of the good stuff too. May need an EQ with more precision and granularity like you said.
 
#17
Mic pres are weird. Some of the cheapo ones sound surprisingly good and others like crap. I've owned a custom dual channel Manley tube pre with one channel set up for mic or magnetic pickup and then other for mic or piezo. They made a little outboard box to combine the 2 channels. No eq or nuthin'. $2500. It sounded awesome. I hardly ever used it. The romance of carrying around a single rackspace pre with a 2 rackspace eq and a 2 rackspace power amp (and the 40 lbs it weighed) wore off pretty quickly. I've heard good things about the Really Nice as well as other units. Check out Sweetwater and Full Compass. They have tons. I love Larry, but the only powered speaker that I thought sounded better than doo doo and was portable enough to bring on gigs were by a Dutch company called Stage Accompany. At least $2000 for a single speaker methinks. Anthony Jackson used to use them, and to be honset I think they sound much better that his current Meyer stuff.
 
#19
Late to the party...

I own an RNP and have run it with a Full Circle into a Clarus III into a Wizzy 12. Frankly I don't think it gains a whole lot over the built in Clarus mic pre. Don't get me wrong--it's a great little preamp but for that application I don't think it's worth the bother of the money. For studio it's pretty nice. A little forward sounding but good bang for buck. Would certainly work well in a live recording rig.

I've been thinking a good quality EQ in the effects send would make more impact on my bass sound. Mike A. suggested that a few posts back. I think this would kill: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FeQ50/

By the way I used to own a RNC (Really Nice Compressor) also made by FMR and found it didn't work well with my bass. Weird clicks when compressing. Worked great with other sources though. I've tried an FRM RNLA with my rig and that was sweet, no problems at all. They have a new compressor out (forget the name) that does some auto-feedback thing (not that kind of feedback) that's supposed to be pretty cool. FMR makes good stuff.

Cheers,
Phil
 

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