• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Recording interface hardware issues

It doesn't work that way.
You play something on your bass, the signal reaches the system, it takes a certain amount of time (i.e. latency) to be produced by the monitor speakers and then additional time (i.e. more latency) to leave the speakers, travel through the air and reach your ears. If you're using headphones this is effectively not a consideration. If you're using monitors in the room then it absolutely is a consideration and most definitely is the way it works. As you move further from those monitor speakers the amount of latency increases since the signal from your bass reaches the interface at a higher speed than the sound travels from the speakers and to your ears. If you're ~3' away you've incurred ~3ms of effective latency. I don't often find myself that close to the monitors when playing through a digital or even an all-analog system. 6' (~6ms of latency) is pretty common when I'm both the bassist and the recording engineer. 10-15' (~10-15ms of latency) is pretty common when I'm in a larger studio than my own and tracking from the control room. These times are somewhat exacerbated when rear and sidewall reflections come into the picture that result in comb filtering, which typically affects the midrange frequencies on a bass and can result in a thinner and softer sound with less attack, thereby making things feel even less tight. Despite all that I'm sure you would still be able to play without your sense of groove being completely destroyed, as you put it.

I'm not trying to be condescending, although I'm probably failing at that, but I felt the need to chime in regarding your 5ms claim. If something is completely destroying your sense of groove it is certainly not 5ms of latency in the monitoring path ahead of the latency due to distance unless you're standing a huge distance away from the monitoring source.
 
Hey all,
I have been trying for the last several years to write songs and as such I have purchased a couple of USB interface devices. (I have limited funds so I'm not talking about the top of the line gear.) I just built a new computer with an intel core i7 (6th gen) with 16GB of 2133mhz ram. The performance level has actually gone down from when I was using my old i5 (3rd gen) with 32gb 667mhz RAM.

The only real difference other than the amount of RAM is the old computer has an SSD HD. I am completely baffled by the increase in lag time (latency) on the new computer vs the old one. On the same buffer size settings I get 5.8 ms delay on the new computer and only 2.8 ms on the old computer. Both are Windows 10 64 bit. At first I couldn't even get the new computer to work at all with the newest model USB device. In fact, It would not even see my midi keyboard. When I connected the older device the keyboard worked. I have a new SSD HD ordered that should be here in a couple of days, but I don't think that will make much of a difference. I have to unplug the USB device prior to booting the computer or it will not work at all... ???

Any ideas or suggestions as to what is causing the problem? I do not have the new computer connected full time to the internet, and I have even gone through all of the Windows startup and disabled everything that is not required for the computer to function properly. I am considering ordering another interface that uses USB-C 2x2 rather than the standard USB. My problem is that will end up costing me another $200 that I really can't afford right now.

SSD vs non-SSD is a much more dramatic performance difference over amount of RAM or CPU (unless it's a really wide gulf between them - i5 with SSD vs i7 with regular HDD? i5 with SSD wins).

Also in the old one you've probably already done the setup and done the old driver song and dance. Make sure you have everything you need to use your USB peripherals (sometimes window will pick a "good enough" generic driver as it recognizes the USB device, but you need the specific drivers is you want to squeeze the most performance out of it).

Also 5ms is completely usable latency - is it actually impeding you? (e.g. you record a track, and when you play it back is noticeably out of time). Your DAW might have settings to correct that (Reaper does at least).
 
  • Like
Reactions: BooDoggie
Also 5ms is completely usable latency - is it actually impeding you? (e.g. you record a track, and when you play it back is noticeably out of time). Your DAW might have settings to correct that (Reaper does at least).
To get to 5ms latency I have to set the buffer to 64. On my old i5 I can run it as high as 512 before the latency gets above 5ms. Also I'm using Studio One 4 Artist version. Hopefully I will get the SSD drive here in a couple of days. According to the tracking info it has been sitting at the postal sorting facility less that 25 miles from me since the 4th.

I can actually notice the 5.8 ms when playing keyboards. It's very annoying... :)
 
Last edited:
Hey all,
I have been trying for the last several years to write songs and as such I have purchased a couple of USB interface devices. (I have limited funds so I'm not talking about the top of the line gear.) I just built a new computer with an intel core i7 (6th gen) with 16GB of 2133mhz ram. The performance level has actually gone down from when I was using my old i5 (3rd gen) with 32gb 667mhz RAM.

The only real difference other than the amount of RAM is the old computer has an SSD HD. I am completely baffled by the increase in lag time (latency) on the new computer vs the old one. On the same buffer size settings I get 5.8 ms delay on the new computer and only 2.8 ms on the old computer. Both are Windows 10 64 bit. At first I couldn't even get the new computer to work at all with the newest model USB device. In fact, It would not even see my midi keyboard. When I connected the older device the keyboard worked. I have a new SSD HD ordered that should be here in a couple of days, but I don't think that will make much of a difference. I have to unplug the USB device prior to booting the computer or it will not work at all... ???

Any ideas or suggestions as to what is causing the problem? I do not have the new computer connected full time to the internet, and I have even gone through all of the Windows startup and disabled everything that is not required for the computer to function properly. I am considering ordering another interface that uses USB-C 2x2 rather than the standard USB. My problem is that will end up costing me another $200 that I really can't afford right now.
Pop 2 or 3 solid drives in it. Better yet, 4 and raid them. Woa
 
Another vote for ASIO4All, though I will say if you bought a Focusrite Scarlett my experience with them on Windows 10 computers is overwhelmingly negative.

How different everyone's systems and experiences are. I've been working with PCs (former IT Pro, retired) since before there was Windows. I've never been able to get ASIO4ALL to work well on any system. My 2nd gen Scarlett 18i20 with the latest drivers (HP-Envy Laptop, i7-7500u, 16gb, 500gb ssd, Win10 Pro) gets 7.6ms RTL at 48/24/64 verified within <>1ms using loopback measured with the RTL utility.

IME, it's not reasonable to try to troubleshoot a Windows system without having it in my hands. To the OP, my only suggestion would be to look at all of your Audio Optimizations. It's often the small, overlooked setting that makes the difference. Your hardware SHOULD be able to handle low latency EASILY. Your new ssd, while improving most every aspect of your machine's performance, will have minimal, if any, impact on latency. That's more about processor and memory. Even the difference between USB 2.0/3.0 doesn't really matter that much, as the bandwidth required for most audio/DAW SMALL project purposes is easily handled in USB2.0. It doesn't really get pushed unless you're working a project with MANY tracks and MANY VSTs.

One piece of advice I will impart - set a Restore Point DAILY, and before any major changes you make. Microsoft Updates almost ALWAYS break SOMETHING!
 
How different everyone's systems and experiences are. I've been working with PCs (former IT Pro, retired) since before there was Windows. I've never been able to get ASIO4ALL to work well on any system. My 2nd gen Scarlett 18i20 with the latest drivers (HP-Envy Laptop, i7-7500u, 16gb, 500gb ssd, Win10 Pro) gets 7.6ms RTL at 48/24/64 verified within <>1ms using loopback measured with the RTL utility.

IME, it's not reasonable to try to troubleshoot a Windows system without having it in my hands. To the OP, my only suggestion would be to look at all of your Audio Optimizations. It's often the small, overlooked setting that makes the difference. Your hardware SHOULD be able to handle low latency EASILY. Your new ssd, while improving most every aspect of your machine's performance, will have minimal, if any, impact on latency. That's more about processor and memory. Even the difference between USB 2.0/3.0 doesn't really matter that much, as the bandwidth required for most audio/DAW SMALL project purposes is easily handled in USB2.0. It doesn't really get pushed unless you're working a project with MANY tracks and MANY VSTs.

One piece of advice I will impart - set a Restore Point DAILY, and before any major changes you make. Microsoft Updates almost ALWAYS break SOMETHING!

Yeah, that is interesting. My first gen 2i2 was rock solid but my second-gen 2i4 has been nothing but trouble. I have to unplug it and re-plug it in multiple times a session.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BooDoggie
Yeah, that is interesting. My first gen 2i2 was rock solid but my second-gen 2i4 has been nothing but trouble. I have to unplug it and re-plug it in multiple times a session.

Sometimes you get a bad piece of HW. Make sure you have the latest drivers and check often for new ones, they update them often.

Also, avoid plugging into a Hub. If you have to use a Hub, use one that's powered. That's all I got!
 
Absolutely a hardware interface driver issue. Latency is directly proportional to the cost and quality of the interface.
Buy cheap? Guess what, latency issues, go figure.

Myself I'm all RME these days.

Also you may want to look into audio OS optimizations, yes it's still a thing. Get the latest drivers for your device.
I agree about avoiding non powered hubs. Get the system working properly first.

SSD is great for OS drive, but a fast mechanical hard drive spinning at least 7200 rpm is perfect for storage, also mechanical drives are huge and cheap, but speed is important.

Good luck,
Dirk
 
Absolutely a hardware interface driver issue. Latency is directly proportional to the cost and quality of the interface.
Buy cheap? Guess what, latency issues, go figure.

Myself I'm all RME these days.

Also you may want to look into audio OS optimizations, yes it's still a thing. Get the latest drivers for your device.
I agree about avoiding non powered hubs. Get the system working properly first.

SSD is great for OS drive, but a fast mechanical hard drive spinning at least 7200 rpm is perfect for storage, also mechanical drives are huge and cheap, but speed is important.

Good luck,
Dirk
Amazing that back in the days of analog tape studios we didn't have latency issues to deal with. Granted it was much harder to overdub a small part than with the digital equipment. :)

I have all of the last 4 releases of drivers from the manufacturer, and it makes no difference which driver version I use. I did suspect a faulty CPU (A $500 i7 6700) as it came with a motherboard a friend gave me (A $500+ MB). The motherboard had been damaged by a careless technician that dropped a hard drive or something on it more than once ;);). Seems he was living with my friends niece and they broke up... I don't know if he actually tried to run it afterwards, but I suspect he did because he told the guy it worked fine before he sent it back to the owner. Although the CPU passed the Intel CPU stress test without a problem, I'm not totally convinced it is not a part of the problem. It was hard to find a new MB that would work with the 6th gen i7.

When I get the new SSD I may try loading the computer with Windows 7 64 bit so that I don't have to deal with all of the Microsoft BS that is embedded in Window 10 that is a PITA to turn off or remove.

I don't even own a USB hub. I connect the interface directly to the rear USB 3 and USB 2 ports, but it made no difference either way. As another point, it is very odd that I have to unplug the USB from the interface before I boot the computer or Windows will not detect it at all... If had not decided to setup a dedicated studio room I would still be using my main computer without any problems. I just wanted to get all of my music gear out of my living room and into its own space.
 
One piece of advice I will impart - set a Restore Point DAILY, and before any major changes you make. Microsoft Updates almost ALWAYS break SOMETHING!
You're preaching to the choir here when it come to Microsoft. I have been working on computers since before DOS so I know what you mean :) I purposely set this computer up to not be connected to the internet to avoid that stealthy Microsoft hidden updating that breaks stuff...

EDIT: I think the OS is pissed off because I won't let it communicate with its master server... ;);)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MonetBass
Hey all,
I have been trying for the last several years to write songs and as such I have purchased a couple of USB interface devices. (I have limited funds so I'm not talking about the top of the line gear.) I just built a new computer with an intel core i7 (6th gen) with 16GB of 2133mhz ram. The performance level has actually gone down from when I was using my old i5 (3rd gen) with 32gb 667mhz RAM.

The only real difference other than the amount of RAM is the old computer has an SSD HD. I am completely baffled by the increase in lag time (latency) on the new computer vs the old one. On the same buffer size settings I get 5.8 ms delay on the new computer and only 2.8 ms on the old computer. Both are Windows 10 64 bit. At first I couldn't even get the new computer to work at all with the newest model USB device. In fact, It would not even see my midi keyboard. When I connected the older device the keyboard worked. I have a new SSD HD ordered that should be here in a couple of days, but I don't think that will make much of a difference. I have to unplug the USB device prior to booting the computer or it will not work at all... ???

Any ideas or suggestions as to what is causing the problem? I do not have the new computer connected full time to the internet, and I have even gone through all of the Windows startup and disabled everything that is not required for the computer to function properly. I am considering ordering another interface that uses USB-C 2x2 rather than the standard USB. My problem is that will end up costing me another $200 that I really can't afford right now.
Put in an SSD and the RAM you’re accustomed to or more; it makes a MASSIVE increase in performance.

Not only loading files from the hard drive, your computer will also use swap files on the hard disk sometimes for temporary storage like when you’re switching between programs, etc and an SSD is so fast it nearly becomes seamless.

halving you’re RAM will also make a hugely noticeable difference in the usability of your system as an audio workstation. Your computer has half the capacity to hold info in memory and half the capacity to stream info to the hard drive. If the processor has 20% better performance but 50% reduced tools at
it’s disposal it can’t realize performance gains in a memory intensive situation. Even just loading the OS probably takes quite a bit longer.
Faster RAM isn’t faster if you needed more RAM.
You can watch performance monitor in windows to see/confirm when memory is running thin, if you’re into that kinda thing.
-
TLDR buy more RAM and install the SSD.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BooDoggie
You play something on your bass, the signal reaches the system, it takes a certain amount of time (i.e. latency) to be produced by the monitor speakers and then additional time (i.e. more latency) to leave the speakers, travel through the air and reach your ears. If you're using headphones this is effectively not a consideration. If you're using monitors in the room then it absolutely is a consideration and most definitely is the way it works. As you move further from those monitor speakers the amount of latency increases since the signal from your bass reaches the interface at a higher speed than the sound travels from the speakers and to your ears. If you're ~3' away you've incurred ~3ms of effective latency. I don't often find myself that close to the monitors when playing through a digital or even an all-analog system. 6' (~6ms of latency) is pretty common when I'm both the bassist and the recording engineer. 10-15' (~10-15ms of latency) is pretty common when I'm in a larger studio than my own and tracking from the control room. These times are somewhat exacerbated when rear and sidewall reflections come into the picture that result in comb filtering, which typically affects the midrange frequencies on a bass and can result in a thinner and softer sound with less attack, thereby making things feel even less tight. Despite all that I'm sure you would still be able to play without your sense of groove being completely destroyed, as you put it.

I'm not trying to be condescending, although I'm probably failing at that, but I felt the need to chime in regarding your 5ms claim. If something is completely destroying your sense of groove it is certainly not 5ms of latency in the monitoring path ahead of the latency due to distance unless you're standing a huge distance away from the monitoring source.

Still, the latency from the digital path and its buffers is added on top of all the other things you stated. Maybe I am being an a-hole for prefering direct monitoring but I still like it that way. Wrong guy to talk down your nose to mr wise guy.
 

Latest posts