Recording V-4B using attenuator, load etc.

[Adg672]

Hi

Just joined, great to be part of such a cool community.

I’m looking to work out the best way to record from my V-4B (with 212AV cab) in the studio at lower volume while cranking the tubes. Looked at loads of dummy/reactive loads, attenuators and so on but unsure of the best way to go. Some ideas were:

• Use an attenuator to the cab then use a RNDI DI (or similar) out of one of the other speaker outputs - would I need to split the load here and how much would the attenuator effect the cab’s sound if I mic-ed it too?
• Use an all-in-one attenuator/load/DI - any decent suggestions?
• Just get a REDDI or PF-20/50T and be done with it - might not be that different in price than a decent solution from either of the above - still might feel i’m missing out on the goodness from the V-4B...

Looking to get as true as possible sound so anything between the amp and record in has to be as transparent as possible, not really intersted in any speaker sims etc.

Thanks in advance for any help

 

[Wasnex]

• Just get a REDDI or PF-20/50T and be done with it -

If the intent is to push the amp a bit I suggest you get a PF20 or PF50 and use the amp's built in dummy load. The DI out of these amps is taken off the output transformer.

Another option would be to get an attenuator capable of handling the power of the V4B. I have an Aracom PRX150-DAG that will do just fine in this roll, but why not spend less money and get an amp that does what you want.

If you don't intend to push output tubes into distortion or drive, turn the master volume down and hook up a speaker, then use a mic or good speaker level DI like a Countryman Type 85.

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You might like this thread: Just Got an old Ampeg SVT-DI to try out

 

[JimmyM]

I am not familiar with what's good in attenuators these days, but being 100w, you could probably use one safely with the V4B. And hooking up a DI that does speaker level between the speaker out and cab is amazing sounding. The PF-50T and V4B are a dead nuts tonal match, though. And though you can't crank a REDDI to get amazing power tube distortion like a real tube amp, I have one of them and love it as well.

 

[logdrum]

I have a Fryette Power Station. Good for this kind of thing when you want to capture the tone of the speaker, specially for bass. Most will tell you to use a DI, but I think I understand where you are coming from.

But the Aracom or Ox or the Fryette are not cheap, just be aware The engineer of a recent project ( I did not play but went to listen) liked how those old Hammond Organ speakers sounded, so he patched the output from a cranked Marshall bass spec head to my Fryette into the Hammond M3 speaker and miced it. He was going for a certain vintage sound. Then into a passive Leslie which was spec'd for guitar. You can't get that sound out of a DI however hard you try.

 

[socialleper]

The PF-50T and V4B are a dead nuts tonal match, though.

I've heard that and it sounds interesting. I just think it is bizarre that the PF -50T is half the power but 80% of the price of the V4B. I would be more tempted if the price was better.

 

[Adg672]

Cheers for the quick replies.

It’s a tough one as just just bought the pair as needed a new rig for small/medium gigs and everything I read here sounds like there’s enough volume for that. I’m not looking for massive distortion, just a nice bit of valve tone for a nice round p-bass sound. Record too and was initially just going to DI and get a dummy load but, as always, the more you dig the more options come up..

Difficult to work out at the moment as I think the 212AV is faulty, can’t get any volume out of it really without it distorting - everything flat and gradually bring the level up on the V-4B, it’s super low when starts breaking. Sounds like just from one speaker, tried master full then bring up the gain and the other way round with same result. Can I post a vid directly here for some feedback?

Ideally want the simplest solution, leaning towards either a RNDI/JDI and a dummy load (RAT one seems like it’d do the job?) and just using the studio monitors or leaving the pair for gigging and either a REDDI/PF-20T for recording..

 

[JimmyM]

I've heard that and it sounds interesting. I just think it is bizarre that the PF -50T is half the power but 80% of the price of the V4B. I would be more tempted if the price was better.

Well the PF-50T is more feature-laden than the V4B so that adds to the price. Honestly, after pricing most 50w tube amps, the PF-50T comes off as a bargain to me, especially when you consider its feature set...two DI's, one off the output transformer, no need for an external dummy load to use it cabless...

 

[Wasnex]

Cheers for the quick replies.

It’s a tough one as just just bought the pair as needed a new rig for small/medium gigs and everything I read here sounds like there’s enough volume for that. I’m not looking for massive distortion, just a nice bit of valve tone for a nice round p-bass sound. Record too and was initially just going to DI and get a dummy load but, as always, the more you dig the more options come up..

Difficult to work out at the moment as I think the 212AV is faulty, can’t get any volume out of it really without it distorting - everything flat and gradually bring the level up on the V-4B, it’s super low when starts breaking. Sounds like just from one speaker, tried master full then bring up the gain and the other way round with same result. Can I post a vid directly here for some feedback?

Ideally want the simplest solution, leaning towards either a RNDI/JDI and a dummy load (RAT one seems like it’d do the job?) and just using the studio monitors or leaving the pair for gigging and either a REDDI/PF-20T for recording..

If possible, I recommend you try your V4B with a known good speaker or the 212AV with a known good head. Your rig should be more than capable of producing enough SPL for low to medium volume gigs.

 

[MattZilla]

Blankets, or set it up outside a barn or in an industrial complex and record at full volume.

Or buy a pf50t.

 

[rodl2005]

You surely can post a vid to show your problem.
Trying a different/ known to be good, speaker cab is one way of narrowing your variables.
Is it possible to rent a PF50/20T?

 

[ThisBass]

I don't think you will get the same sound with an attenuator cause "sound" strongly depends on interaction of amplifier with speaker.

 

[depalm]

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[JimmyM]

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That would definitely work with a V4B.

 

[Wasnex]

That would definitely work with a V4B.

Specs for the Torpedo say 100W RMS max. Pretty sure a V4B is going to put out more than that if you push the output tubes.

 

[JimmyM]

Specs for the Torpedo say 100W RMS max. Pretty sure a V4B is going to put out more than that if you push the output tubes.

Yeah, it can double that on peaks, but the folks at Two Notes have to know that a 100w amp can put out double at peak, so I don't see why the Torpedo wouldn't take that into consideration.

 

[Wasnex]

Yeah, it can double that on peaks, but the folks at Two Notes have to know that a 100w amp can put out double at peak, so I don't see why the Torpedo wouldn't take that into consideration.

Per the Two Notes knowledge base Article 277, you can use amps that exceed 100 watts with the Torpedo Captor as long as you keep the volume down.

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[JimmyM]

Per the Two Notes knowledge base Article 277, you can use amps that exceed 100 watts with the Torpedo Captor as long as you keep the volume down.

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Hmmm...that's odd. Well I guess you were right then.

 

[Wasnex]

Hmmm...that's odd. Well I guess you were right then.

The Torpedo Reload will handle 150W so it should be fine...but >3x the cost of the Captor .

 

[Adg672]

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Yeah saw this one but seems like it might not do either job ideally. It’s fixed attenuation and would think the RNDI is better DI.

Anyone used a Dr. Z Air Brake? Looks exactly the ticket for the attenuator. Coupled with the RNDI should cover all the bases.

Starting to push the cost of a PF-50T though although the above would be a solution that'd work in the studio or a gig instead of having two amp heads..

 

[Adg672]

I am not familiar with what's good in attenuators these days, but being 100w, you could probably use one safely with the V4B. And hooking up a DI that does speaker level between the speaker out and cab is amazing sounding. The PF-50T and V4B are a dead nuts tonal match, though. And though you can't crank a REDDI to get amazing power tube distortion like a real tube amp, I have one of them and love it as well.

Seen a few of your posts mentioning the REDDI, PF-50T and V-4B can all sound very similar - what do you get out of the REDDI that justifies owning one when you’ve got the others?