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Recording V-4B using attenuator, load etc.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Adg672, Aug 12, 2018.


  1. Adg672

    Adg672

    Aug 12, 2018
    Hi

    Just joined, great to be part of such a cool community.

    I’m looking to work out the best way to record from my V-4B (with 212AV cab) in the studio at lower volume while cranking the tubes. Looked at loads of dummy/reactive loads, attenuators and so on but unsure of the best way to go. Some ideas were:
    • Use an attenuator to the cab then use a RNDI DI (or similar) out of one of the other speaker outputs - would I need to split the load here and how much would the attenuator effect the cab’s sound if I mic-ed it too?
    • Use an all-in-one attenuator/load/DI - any decent suggestions?
    • Just get a REDDI or PF-20/50T and be done with it - might not be that different in price than a decent solution from either of the above - still might feel i’m missing out on the goodness from the V-4B...
    Looking to get as true as possible sound so anything between the amp and record in has to be as transparent as possible, not really intersted in any speaker sims etc.

    Thanks in advance for any help
     
  2. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    If the intent is to push the amp a bit I suggest you get a PF20 or PF50 and use the amp's built in dummy load. The DI out of these amps is taken off the output transformer.

    Another option would be to get an attenuator capable of handling the power of the V4B. I have an Aracom PRX150-DAG that will do just fine in this roll, but why not spend less money and get an amp that does what you want.

    If you don't intend to push output tubes into distortion or drive, turn the master volume down and hook up a speaker, then use a mic or good speaker level DI like a Countryman Type 85.

    Aracom Amplifiers Crank it up! Power Rox PRX150-DAG Power Attenuator

    You might like this thread: Just Got an old Ampeg SVT-DI to try out
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
    SirMjac28 and rodl2005 like this.
  3. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    I am not familiar with what's good in attenuators these days, but being 100w, you could probably use one safely with the V4B. And hooking up a DI that does speaker level between the speaker out and cab is amazing sounding. The PF-50T and V4B are a dead nuts tonal match, though. And though you can't crank a REDDI to get amazing power tube distortion like a real tube amp, I have one of them and love it as well.
     
    JulienP., SirMjac28, Wisebass and 2 others like this.
  4. I have a Fryette Power Station. Good for this kind of thing when you want to capture the tone of the speaker, specially for bass. Most will tell you to use a DI, but I think I understand where you are coming from.

    But the Aracom or Ox or the Fryette are not cheap, just be aware The engineer of a recent project ( I did not play but went to listen) liked how those old Hammond Organ speakers sounded, so he patched the output from a cranked Marshall bass spec head to my Fryette into the Hammond M3 speaker and miced it. He was going for a certain vintage sound. Then into a passive Leslie which was spec'd for guitar. You can't get that sound out of a DI however hard you try.
     
    SirMjac28 and Wasnex like this.
  5. socialleper

    socialleper Bringer of doom and top shelf beer Supporting Member

    May 31, 2009
    Canyon Country, CA
    I've heard that and it sounds interesting. I just think it is bizarre that the PF -50T is half the power but 80% of the price of the V4B. I would be more tempted if the price was better.
     
  6. Adg672

    Adg672

    Aug 12, 2018
    Cheers for the quick replies.

    It’s a tough one as just just bought the pair as needed a new rig for small/medium gigs and everything I read here sounds like there’s enough volume for that. I’m not looking for massive distortion, just a nice bit of valve tone for a nice round p-bass sound. Record too and was initially just going to DI and get a dummy load but, as always, the more you dig the more options come up..

    Difficult to work out at the moment as I think the 212AV is faulty, can’t get any volume out of it really without it distorting - everything flat and gradually bring the level up on the V-4B, it’s super low when starts breaking. Sounds like just from one speaker, tried master full then bring up the gain and the other way round with same result. Can I post a vid directly here for some feedback?

    Ideally want the simplest solution, leaning towards either a RNDI/JDI and a dummy load (RAT one seems like it’d do the job?) and just using the studio monitors or leaving the pair for gigging and either a REDDI/PF-20T for recording..
     
  7. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Well the PF-50T is more feature-laden than the V4B so that adds to the price. Honestly, after pricing most 50w tube amps, the PF-50T comes off as a bargain to me, especially when you consider its feature set...two DI's, one off the output transformer, no need for an external dummy load to use it cabless...
     
    SirMjac28, Wisebass, rodl2005 and 3 others like this.
  8. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    If possible, I recommend you try your V4B with a known good speaker or the 212AV with a known good head. Your rig should be more than capable of producing enough SPL for low to medium volume gigs.
     
  9. MattZilla

    MattZilla

    Jun 26, 2013
    CNY
    Blankets, or set it up outside a barn or in an industrial complex and record at full volume.

    Or buy a pf50t.
     
  10. You surely can post a vid to show your problem.
    Trying a different/ known to be good, speaker cab is one way of narrowing your variables.
    Is it possible to rent a PF50/20T?
     
  11. ThisBass

    ThisBass

    Aug 29, 2012
    Germany
    I don't think you will get the same sound with an attenuator cause "sound" strongly depends on interaction of amplifier with speaker.
     
  12. depalm

    depalm Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 22, 2004
    São Paulo
  13. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
  14. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    Specs for the Torpedo say 100W RMS max. Pretty sure a V4B is going to put out more than that if you push the output tubes.
     
  15. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Yeah, it can double that on peaks, but the folks at Two Notes have to know that a 100w amp can put out double at peak, so I don't see why the Torpedo wouldn't take that into consideration.
     
  16. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    Per the Two Notes knowledge base Article 277, you can use amps that exceed 100 watts with the Torpedo Captor as long as you keep the volume down.

    Can I use an amplifier more powerful than the rated power of a Torpedo product ?
     
  17. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
  18. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    The Torpedo Reload will handle 150W so it should be fine...but >3x the cost of the Captor :sorry:.
     
  19. Adg672

    Adg672

    Aug 12, 2018
    Yeah saw this one but seems like it might not do either job ideally. It’s fixed attenuation and would think the RNDI is better DI.

    Anyone used a Dr. Z Air Brake? Looks exactly the ticket for the attenuator. Coupled with the RNDI should cover all the bases.

    Starting to push the cost of a PF-50T though although the above would be a solution that'd work in the studio or a gig instead of having two amp heads..
     
  20. Adg672

    Adg672

    Aug 12, 2018
    Seen a few of your posts mentioning the REDDI, PF-50T and V-4B can all sound very similar - what do you get out of the REDDI that justifies owning one when you’ve got the others?
     

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