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Recording V-4B using attenuator, load etc.
- Thread starter Adg672
- Start date
Looks decent - seems the balanced DI is speaker emulation only and there’s only an unbalanced line out without it? Would need another DI too if so and no attenuator’s a bit of a drawback
um, a same-tone + extra features + 3/4 volume spare head would be a bad thing to have.
Whait wat?
No bad thing and definitely an option. Just looking at the best way to use the V-4B first
The Aracom I mentioned earlier provides variable attenuation and should be fine with the power of the V4B...The Aracom is not cheap either, so I agree A PF-20T or PF-50T might be a good idea.
From Aracom the manual
Looks like the job but you’re right, pretty expensive and seems hard to find in the UK
Unfortunately, none of the common, relatively inexpensive attenuators that I am aware of will handle a cranked V4B. The Aracom will and the Two Notes Torpedo Reload will, but they cost as much as a used V4B. Both provide reactive loads and both are relatively expensive.
As @Jim C suggested in post #35, you could probably built a resistive dummy load for relatively low cost. I found these 500W resistors available in 4Ohms or 8Ohms.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
They are available in the US on Amazon.Com from this vendor.
https://www.amazon.com/Electronics-...field-lbr_brands_browse-bin=Electronics-Salon
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From the manual on their website if you have the emulation set to bypass with the switch on the front then the XLR DI is "filtered but flat." I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. I think I'd want to hear the difference before buying something like this. I'm with you in thinking that it's weird that it's not a direct send, but maybe just part of taking the speaker level signal down to balance line level?
If you went the DI and dummy load route I would probably use a Countryman Type 85 as a speaker level DI and then your choice of dummy load. Weber has attenuators up to 200 watts. Maybe a Palmer PDI or [Invalid or Expired Link Removed], or the SPL Reducer.
The Torpedo Reload looks on the money. Load, attenuator, DI (both from the amp or clean - although you need to split the DI signal if you want both), reamping which is super useful.
Not cheap but covers almost all the bases - great review from SOS too which is always a good sign
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Hadn’t come across that Weber kit before - looks good. Advantage of that is you can use the exact DI you want - Countryman is great and the RDNI is pretty much top of my list.
Anyone used the Torpedo Reload and got any thoughts on the DI (especially the speaker load DI) quality?
The Fryette looks amazing, around the same price as the PF-50T and would almost perfectly complement the V-4B. Would be great in the studio and live. Can you use the balanced DI without the attenuation and still get full volume out of the V-4B/212?
The PS2 or current version will do that. Link Removed
Here' what you have in the back. Amp in is from you other amp speaker outs
1. LINE IN – This input will accept signal from any line level source, such as a preamp, amplifier line out, effects processor, pedal preamp or iPhone. Virtually any device that you want to amplify to listening level through a speaker cabinet can be connected here.
2. LINE OUT – This is a frequency compensated output that takes the signal from the load amplifier’s speaker output plugged into the Power Station Amp In jack and makes it available to drive any external device, such as a mixer, recording input, computer recording interface, power amplifier or signal processor. Use this feature to send your onstage sound to an external processor and then to FOH, an onstage powered monitor or a “wet” only amp/effect/speaker system.
3. FX SEND – Low impedance effects send jack for use with external effects processor. This connection is post AMP IN and LINE IN, so any effect connected here will be inserted between your load amplifier or external preamp and the Power Station internal tube power amp.
4. FX RETURN – High impedance effects return jack for use with external effects processor. As with the FX SEND, this connection is post AMP IN and LINE IN, so any effect connected here will be inserted between your load amplifier or external preamp and the Power Station internal power amp.
5. FX LEVEL – This sets the signal level inside the loop. Use the HI position for line level (+4 to 0dB) devices. Use the LO position for guitar level devices (-10 to -20dB) such as pedal delays, etc. In LO mode you can even plug your guitar, bass, acoustic instrument pickup or keyboard directly in here for a great clean/jazz tube amplified sound.
6. LINE OUT XLR – Transformer isolated, balanced line output of signal coming from amplifier connected to Amp In.
7. LOW PASS FILTER – Slightly reduces high frequencies (5K and up) to help smooth out cranked amp tone when recording direct. This filter also affects signal coming out of speaker outputs. Most of the time you will leave this in the OUT position.
8. AMP IN – Connect the speaker output from the amplifier that you want to attenuate or boost - the load amplifier - here. Set the Impedance Select switch to the desired setting to match your amplifier. The total power handling capacity of the reactive load is as follows: Amp In (Max Continuous): 200W @ 2, 4 & 16 Ohms. 150W @ 8 Ohms
Yeah, really flexible. What i mean is, as the V-4B puts out 100W, if i have it running through the PS2 which has a 50W power amp, and the volume is set to full on the PS2 (no attenuation), do i get the full 100W through or is 50W the max when powered up?
I have a PF-50T and it's perfect for home recording without speaker.
If I had a V-4B I would have buy the 2 notes Torpedo instead.
If I had a V-4B I would have buy the 2 notes Torpedo instead.
Just some quick notes on this as someone who wanted a wide-grain power tube distortion at low volume. I was essentially chasing Al Cisneros' tone on the first few Om records without buying multiple Matamp heads or needing to play at planet-smashing volumes. All I found was that any shortcut will negatively affect your tone.
- most attenuators suck. Sure, they let you crank your tube amp at bedroom volumes, but they also kill all the richness of the distortion. To be fair, I haven't tried some of the truly expensive units that also act as speaker simulators like the Palmer units, but all the <$500 ones I tried were tone sucks. This includes the Rivera, Mesa, Dr. Z and Marshall variations.
- the reason I think they suck is that they just can't replicate the reactive loading of a speaker being pushed hard, and so don't get all that cool note 'bloom' that makes loud tubes sound so good. Weber has tried to address this by putting a speaker motor in their attenuators, and while it is definitely the best I've heard, it's still not transparent.
- well designed iso-cabs are a great solution for guitar, but I have yet to see one that works well for bass. Doesn't mean they don't exist, though...
- the closest I came to a satisfying low-volume power tube distortion is the SWR Interstellar Overdrive preamp. It uses a 12AX7 preamp and two EL84 power tubes to make a 5 W amp that you can tap into. It works best run through a speaker for the reasons listed above (there's a resistor inside, but again, without a speaker, the tone is lifeless). 5 W gets surprisingly loud, but it's still somehat sociable.
- don't underestimate the importance of string interaction with the amp. Playing in front of a loud amp messes with the strings in all sorts of cool ways, and ultimately results in my favourite tube distortion tones
- most attenuators suck. Sure, they let you crank your tube amp at bedroom volumes, but they also kill all the richness of the distortion. To be fair, I haven't tried some of the truly expensive units that also act as speaker simulators like the Palmer units, but all the <$500 ones I tried were tone sucks. This includes the Rivera, Mesa, Dr. Z and Marshall variations.
- the reason I think they suck is that they just can't replicate the reactive loading of a speaker being pushed hard, and so don't get all that cool note 'bloom' that makes loud tubes sound so good. Weber has tried to address this by putting a speaker motor in their attenuators, and while it is definitely the best I've heard, it's still not transparent.
- well designed iso-cabs are a great solution for guitar, but I have yet to see one that works well for bass. Doesn't mean they don't exist, though...
- the closest I came to a satisfying low-volume power tube distortion is the SWR Interstellar Overdrive preamp. It uses a 12AX7 preamp and two EL84 power tubes to make a 5 W amp that you can tap into. It works best run through a speaker for the reasons listed above (there's a resistor inside, but again, without a speaker, the tone is lifeless). 5 W gets surprisingly loud, but it's still somehat sociable.
- don't underestimate the importance of string interaction with the amp. Playing in front of a loud amp messes with the strings in all sorts of cool ways, and ultimately results in my favourite tube distortion tones
Cheers for the detailed response - many options to consider
If it was purely for recording and small gigs, would have probably gone with the PF-50T but felt like i needed the extra power from the V-4B.
At the minute the Fryette looks like the best option - not cheap but would do everything in the studio and live without any other boxes, keeping things relatively simple. Plus gives extra options and tone that are really useful in the studio for other sound sources.
Any of these attenuators work with an SVT-CL, or is that just too much juice at 300W? Not sure I'll need one, but options are nice.
Don’t think anything i was looking looking at when that high but Jim C mentioned a 300W unit earlier in this thread
