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Recording V-4B using attenuator, load etc.
- Thread starter Adg672
- Start date
Thanks! Looks like he was talking about a dummy load rather than an attenuator. I'm looking to still use the speakers, just quieter.
I got spolied with my Vox AC15 guitar head and its built in attenuator. I can max the controls and still be at bedroom volume. But starting with only 15w, I guess it isn't all that difficult.
Not directed at the OP.T
The thing I don't like about attenuators is that they don't react to speaker impedance changes; at least back in the day they were just variable resistors. They never sounded the same to me with a mic'd Marshall; loud was always better than a variable attenuator.
If you want to introduce distortion in your bass tone, there are better ways to do so IMO.
As I mentioned previously, I think there are DI's that can accept a speaker out load to a DI in; not positive this is availlable for tube amps.
Or
Get clean from the amp and blend in some buzz from a pedal.
If you are recording, even the cheap software has speaker sims that work well as well as amp sims.
If it has to be great, then the studio will not have an issue with volume or will have ProTools or similar that will solve all problems
If ones' mind is made up then go for it and the rest of us can let it go.
So many options
The thing I don't like about attenuators is that they don't react to speaker impedance changes; at least back in the day they were just variable resistors. They never sounded the same to me with a mic'd Marshall; loud was always better than a variable attenuator.
If you want to introduce distortion in your bass tone, there are better ways to do so IMO.
As I mentioned previously, I think there are DI's that can accept a speaker out load to a DI in; not positive this is availlable for tube amps.
Or
Get clean from the amp and blend in some buzz from a pedal.
If you are recording, even the cheap software has speaker sims that work well as well as amp sims.
If it has to be great, then the studio will not have an issue with volume or will have ProTools or similar that will solve all problems
If ones' mind is made up then go for it and the rest of us can let it go.
So many options
I only have first-hand experience with one attenuator and I agree, as the level of attenuation is increased the sound becomes less lively and dynamic. I find attenuators most useful for taking a bit of edge off. At 4-6dB of attenuation my Aracom sounds really great. I can run a 100W head silent without a speaker with the Aracom and the sound is definitely usable, but I do prefer the sound at a much lower level of attenuation.
I don't necessarily agree that silent speaker chambers are a perfect solution. From the research I have done, they also degrade the sound plus you generally can't crank a 100W head into one these without also using an attenuator. Also, you can't expect a mic in a small enclosure to sound the same as a mic in a large open space...but some silent speakers are definitely better than others...I believe Rivera Silent Sister is one of the more respected units, but it's expensive, large, and many threads say it's not quiet enough for apartment use.
I found no silent speakers that will take the power of an big tube bass amp. However, for bass players who want a compact unit they can mic to use with IEMs on stage I thought the AxeTrak for bass guitar might be a good candidate. 21lbs but it only handles 75W...so careful.
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Even using a low wattage tube amp is not a perfect solution because some of the desirable distortion comes from using a particular amp to push a particular type of speaker into cone breakup. I am sure the Interstellar Overdrive is awesome. I doubt it sounds exactly like a Marshall Super Lead thrashing greenbacks, but an Interstellar overdrive does sound like an awesome tool to have on hand. How does it sound with bass?
There are dummy loads that will take an SVT but I haven't found an attenuator. If one is available, I would expect it to be extremely expensive.
IMHO, you need a bigger than 300W dummy load if your going to push an SVT for very long.
Yeah, it wouldn't make sense. I'm fully prepared to admit that my impulsive SVT purchase might have been overkill for bedroom recording, but will see how it sounds when the cab arrives. Worst case scenario I can take the head back and buy a PF-50t.
Hey Look what I found from the mid 80's!
Not sure where the 4 Ohm unit is.
Baby blue since it was used for such gentle music (or that's the first can of paint I found on the shelf that still sprayed.
Any song longer than 4:00 doesn't deserve this much trouble. It did get knida warm with 100 watts though.
Not sure where the 4 Ohm unit is.
Baby blue since it was used for such gentle music (or that's the first can of paint I found on the shelf that still sprayed.
Any song longer than 4:00 doesn't deserve this much trouble. It did get knida warm with 100 watts though.
I like the PF50 just fine but like the 7027's and the V4 amp design much, much better.
I'd take the SVT over the PF50 too.
Honestly, 50 watts for a bass amp never did it for me; just not enough a$$ to get the mojo working strong.
My dual showman on the other hand is decent.
My concern is that the SVT with the Master knob set at 1 won't have as much a$$ mojo as a lower powered amp opened up a bit. We'll find out soon...
You have a very capable and awesome sounding rig on the way. If it will only be used for recording, you might have gone a bit overboard. If you plan to gig the amp I think your going to be thrilled as long as you don't mind the weight.
IMHO, stacking multiple low gain stages will generate a more organic overdrive than thrashing one stage. If you have some OD and distortion pedals that work well with bass, try stacking a couple of them right at the edge of break up. Reorder the pedals a couple of times to determine which order produces the best results. Also set the preamp clean at first and crank up the output of you last pedal to push the front end of your preamp into saturation. After you get this first tube section on the verge of breakup, crank up the input gain to drive later stages in the preamp while adjusting your master volume to maintain the desired SPL.
I definitely don't claim them to be a perfect solution for guitar, let alone bass, but I like them much better than attenuators for guitar, personally. From what I've been told, the Rivera works best/worst because it's ported. Most of the cheaper units are sealed to improve sound containment, but this results in pumping of the speaker cone and dampening cone breakup, as it compresses the unmovable air in front and behind the speaker. The Rivera is ported, so minimises that problem, but also lets out much more sound. I guess it's a bit like using an attenuator on part way: the more you kill the volume, the worse the tone gets. To add to the wattage issue with a single speaker, the other problem with iso-cabs for bass is that low frequencies are much harder to contain, which would result in a very, very heavy iso-cab. Maybe a concrete box slightly bigger than a fridge? Then build a sand-filled wall around that? As I discovered with most of this stuff, if you're picky about tone it's just easier to find somewhere to play loud...
Yeah, though there is also a beauty to small amps breaking up. Look at what people pay for old Silvertones now, once they found out how Jimmy Page recorded most of his parts for the first few Zeppelin albums. Still, it doesn't replicate the roar you get from a forest of tubes being pushed through huge transformers. The IOD is designed for bass, and that's what makes it so awesome. I find many distortion devices (OD pedals, fuzz, Ampeg Scrambler, etc.) only really work on the mid-to-upper frequencies, which often results in this weird split tone, with the cleanish bottom almost separate from the dirty mids and top. Either that or it just kills the bottom altogether. The IOD works better than anything I've tried for giving that rich, accelerating-V8 kind of rumble at lower volumes. Of course, it really works best with the 5W amp plugged into a speaker, which is way, way above apartment levels, but that's still much quieter than the neighbourhood levelling volumes that I would get from my Fender Bassman 300 cranked through an 810...
Of course, the real secret of the IOD is that it sounds totally amazing as the warmest of warm tube preamps when the OD is dialled back. Well, it's not really a secret, as I'll tell anyone who will listen, but you know what I mean...
Good idea. I have a few drive and boost pedals I can use for this. Thanks.
So the Fryette arrived. Sounds good and works well but man is the fan loud - not great for the studio.
As a attenuator it keeps the vibe of the amp really well. As a production tool, V-4B into that - speaker out looped back in the amp input - DI out. Sounds niice. With bass, synths (especially), drums...
Be a shame to return it but might have to rethink as I work mainly in a production room and having to keep turning it on/off is.....
If one wanted an attenuator and no other features like DI or cab sim, etc., would one of the cheaper boxes like Jet City sound ok with a PF-50t? I've got the 50 on the way (returned my SVT), and may want to push it a bit, but still mic the cab.
Honestly asked, did you ever deal anyhow with filter alignment science which is considered as kinda common basic science for cabs?
