Recording

[lwknives]

So, my band is wanting to record another one of our songs. It is possible that it will end up on a local radio station so we want it to be the highest quality we can get.

Anywho, a little while ago we took an evening and recorded the song ourselves. I did all of the engineering mic set up ect. I only have a two channel interface so the drums had to be mixed to two channels. We do have a full sized mixer though and the kit was fully micked. I recorded all the guitars through a Mesa Dual Rec Roadster combo with a close mic and a room mic. I was pretty happy with the recording we got.

Here is the problem, the lead singer/rhythm gtr/BL isn't happy with the recording and he wants to go to the studio where we have recorded in the past. his opinion was based off of an incomplete mix that I had made to get the opinions of the other band members. I changed the mix but he hasn't had a chance to listen to it yet.

The thing is, I'm not happy with the recordings that we got in that studio. They are ok, but they just don't breath or have any life. You can hear all the instruments fine but there isn't anything interesting about the mix. The engineer knew how to get a basic mix but didn't seem to have a concept for being creative with it. When I suggested something that wasn't inside his "cookbook" he would look at me like I was crazy. He totally killed my guitar sound.

His studio was three small (less than 10'x10') rooms with thin foam glued to the walls. Great rooms for recording vocals and acoustic guitar, pretty lame rooms for recording loud electric guitars or drums. He had a very nice board and a great interface along with some fairly nice rack gear going into a computer with a cheap DAW. The only mics he had us using were SM87s, a kick mic that I didnt see and some overheads for the drums. All vocals and guitars got SM57s.

The only advantage his studio has to the setup we have is that he can record a large amount of tracks at the same time and I can only do two. We had a better drum kit, a WAY better room, better mics and I can spend as much time as I want on our mix without having to pay for studio time. I liked the sound we got when we recorded it ourselves better than what we have got at this studio.

So how do y'all deal with disagreements on sound? I am obviously biased because I did all the engineering but I didn't like the sound we were getting even before we did our own recording. Also, I have about three years of studio experience so its not like this is the first mix I have ever made.

Thoughts?

Here is my bands soundcloud, these were recorded in the studio.
[SOUNDCLOUD]https://soundcloud.com/rcrb-1[/SOUNDCLOUD]

I did all the recording on the tune in my sig.

 

[bkbirge]

Possibilities...
1. Have your singer listen to your latest mix then have a band vote on what to do.
2. Fire the singer and go it alone.
3. Fire yourself and start something new where you control the engineering.
4. Find another studio that you like better with a different engineer.
5. Track at a pro place and mix it yourself at your place.
6. Track at your place and have a 'golden ears' engineer mix it at a pro place (or your place).

 

[lwknives]

Possibilities...
1. Have your singer listen to your latest mix then have a band vote on what to do.
2. Fire the singer and go it alone.
3. Fire yourself and start something new where you control the engineering.
4. Find another studio that you like better with a different engineer.
5. Track at a pro place and mix it yourself at your place.
6. Track at your place and have a 'golden ears' engineer mix it at a pro place (or your place).

1. probably the best option.
2. He wrote about 90% of our music and he owns the PA and him and the drummer are close friends. This isnt really an option.
3. Possible but not worth it, I love playing with this band enough that I am willing to deal with sub-par recordings.
4. I like this option as well.
5. Most pro places probably wont use any recording software that I can afford.
6. Could be an option if they can work with files that come from GB or some cheap recording software.

 

[bkbirge]

5. Most pro places probably wont use any recording software that I can afford.

Any pro studio these days should be able to export the files to whatever format you need. Protools -> Wav is very common.

 

[MatticusMania]

First, have your singer listen to the final mix.

If you go back to the studio definitely get the masters so that you can do your own mix, or go to a different studio with a better engineer.

 

[lwknives]

Any pro studio these days should be able to export the files to whatever format you need. Protools -> Wav is very common.

Did not know that.

First, have your singer listen to the final mix.

If you go back to the studio definitely get the masters so that you can do your own mix, or go to a different studio with a better engineer.

I think the problem with this studio is more in getting a good sound into the computer than mixing it once it is there.

We are going into the studio this Friday so I don't have much of a way of getting it to him before that.

 

[masterFlash]

I listened to the 2 recordings on your post. I like the studio recording better. As I don't know your band, I don't know what overall sound you're going for. However I can hear the kick drum on the studio recording, but not on the home mix. The bass is way buried on both. The Guitar is a bit too in your face, but your recording/mix did balance the clean guitar and distorted guitar pretty well in that opening section.

 

[lwknives]

I listened to the 2 recordings on your post. I like the studio recording better. As I don't know your band, I don't know what overall sound you're going for. However I can hear the kick drum on the studio recording, but not on the home mix. The bass is way buried on both. The Guitar is a bit too in your face, but your recording/mix did balance the clean guitar and distorted guitar pretty well in that opening section.

Thanks for the comments! That is a song I did as a solo project before I joined this band, the drums are from GB not real drums. Metal is way Way harder to record than rock or blues.
Ill try and upload the recording I made of my band later today.

 

[longfinger]

Can the "studio" guy make himself portable? If the drum kit and most importantly, the room, are better with you, then find out if the studio guy can get his mulit-track+ interface to your place to record. Moving a board, rack, interface, computer, should be the same work as moving a drum kit... not that hard.

For you, recording only two tracks at a time is a big limitation. I'd be looking at more simultaneous inputs to record a band at a better quality in a quicker time. If you want to do it at your house, and studio guy won't become portable, then look into renting a interface for the session, with the ability to record at least 8 tracks simultaneously.

IMO, YMMV etc...

 

[lwknives]

Can the "studio" guy make himself portable? If the drum kit and most importantly, the room, are better with you, then find out if the studio guy can get his mulit-track+ interface to your place to record. Moving a board, rack, interface, computer, should be the same work as moving a drum kit... not that hard.

For you, recording only two tracks at a time is a big limitation. I'd be looking at more simultaneous inputs to record a band at a better quality in a quicker time. If you want to do it at your house, and studio guy won't become portable, then look into renting a interface for the session, with the ability to record at least 8 tracks simultaneously.

IMO, YMMV etc...

Yah, that is the only gear he has that I cant match. I'm not able to change the levels of any of the drums other than by EQ.

I cant afford an 8 track interface right now, Ive talked to the band about buying one with the studio money but they don't seem to be interested. We could buy one for the cost of recording this song though.

The guy with this studio isn't going to want to move his gear. He is an hour away and only does recording part time.

 

[Karenc]

Greetings. Obviously, owning a multi-channel mixer is great, and if you have some really great software, you can get really creative.
But I perceive, possibly, that the studio you go to is giving you what is the integrity of what he/she hears. Each channel can record the sounds with some boosts, and so forth, but when it gets into the software, one can totally manipulate everything, even correct, boost, decrease, change tempos, etc., etc., etc.
I think, if you go to this studio again, tell him/her what you want. Get it recorded, and then give yourself more time to listen and request alterations as you all hear the software play it. That is the time to change things. Do not rely on the studio personal to give you what you think you want: the person does not know. He is just trying to record what he believes sounds like you all. In a small studio, that is distortion for sure. If your band is talented enough, each person can record into the software separately, right? This could be an option on some of it. Actually, that might be the only solution for some of the sounds that might need boosting or whatever.
Vocals, for example, often have to be boosted, or they would be lost. Or it could be the other way, if recorded differently.
In the end, I think you are dealing with the problem of this giant sound in a small room, and the desire to have creative license with what you end up with. That is a hard judgment call for a studio guy to make: thereby, I think you have to listen and tell them step by step what you want, and let him fix it as he plays the mix a few times or more. Blessings to you.

 

[uOpt]

Those recordings' main problem is lack of room simulation and that the stereo orientation is ... interesting. Somebody first needs to give it a good workover with a pcm70 or better, position things from scratch and then some real mastering has to happen.

It doesn't seem to be a problem since your base recording is clear with no problems that I could hear, except maybe for slightly lame drum micing.

One idea is to head over to the gearslutz forum where aspiring sound engineers often look for random things to mix for practice. Of course that could mean spilling unfinished recordings to the 'net and other annoyances.

 

[IPYF]

I'll give it to you straight because I don't blow smoke up people's bottoms. I think your own recording is pretty ordinary. It's of demo quality at best but still quite poor. It's certainly not close to a level where you could get radio play with it, in my opinion. You have some ways to go for that.

If the recording you made with your band is of a similar quality I also wouldn't be satisfied with it and I'm unsurprised that your singer is unhappy. The studio recording, while superior, is still significantly inferior to what I would expect for anything other than a scratch demo.

I'd suggest that you might want to investigate other studios or alternatively just accept that the recordings you're doing at home are demos and work your way upward. I think a good start for you on that front is to start looking at your recordings as part of a spectrum. At the moment all I'm really hearing in your home recording is 'excited guitarist syndrome' where everything in your mix is taking a backseat to your guitars.

Feel free to start a thread in the Recording subforum if you want to get mix critiques. There are plenty of people there who can help. As to the issue of 'singer vs mix' it's kind of impossible to tell considering that you haven't posted the song in question here. I would suggest though that if it's in the realm of your other home recorded track and the goal is radio play your singer has just cause for concern.

 

[lwknives]

Here is a link to the recording I made of my band.


To me this has better sound quality than the mix we got in the studio. It could just be that Im biased because I made it though. Im not saying its pro quality or anything but pro is kinda out of our financial abilities right now.

The drums are all on two tracks so there isn't really anything I can do to them. The rest of the instruments are on there own separate tracks, guitars each got two tracks because I included a room mic. Bass is an Ibenez BTB through a tech 21 DI/pramp into the board.

In the studio I tried to show him what I wanted and he didnt try very hard to do it. My band was in a hurry to get out because we were having to pay the guy per/hour for the mixing.

 

[ma4rk]

You're recordings are much better then the studio one, sounds much more alive. Has the singer heard the latest mix yet?

 

[Kenzy]

Listening to your recording of the song in question, I wonder if you've mastered the track yet. I, personally, and being merely a musician, and not a sound engineer, think that a mastering would clear up the issues that I do hear in this recording. Except the kick drum- where is it?

 

[Kenzy]

Double post.

Additionally, do you have the track that you guys recorded in the studio? I forgot to mention that I thought your latest home recording was rather good.

 

[IPYF]

I agree that the new recording sounds better than the studio one on having a listen.
There are some 'things' that you might want to look at. I mean I can hear some lead crackles which I would get rid of. Another thing that has been mentioned is that you've got no kick in there.

You could try and isolate the kick's best frequencies and boost them, but that's dangerous and can create clip and mud. I'd just do a midi replace on the kickdrum using a sample.

Other then that my only advice would be to do a dummy master of it ask your singer what it is that he doesn't like. Can he actually specify what he's not into?
Maybe the guy just liked being in the studio!

 

[Kenzy]

If you mic'd the kick and have the track for it still lying around somewhere, you can put a gate on it and attach a frequency generator, set it down to 50hz or so and side chain it to the kick track to simulate a sub kick effect, which may make it more apparent in the mix, if it's in there and just being missed by all of us.

 

[IPYF]

If you mic'd the kick and have the track for it still lying around somewhere, you can put a gate on it and attach a frequency generator, set it down to 50hz or so and side chain it to the kick track to simulate a sub kick effect, which may make it more apparent in the mix, if it's in there and just being missed by all of us.

Great idea. If you have a separate kick track you could also use a sidechain to duck the bass and guitars around it using a compressor. Some people don't like to duck though so maybe you're not into that.