Double Bass Red Eye Preamp

[basss]

I've been playing around with my red eye in the practice room. I just received a Sennheiser e604 as an early Christmas gift and tried plugging that into the effects return along with my full circle into the instrument input. The effect is subtle but I'm hearing an even smoother more natural sound. Not not a lot of microphone air but a slight decrease of piezoness. I'm not sure how this would translate on a gig as it's pretty subtle. Has anyone else tried putting a mic into the effects return while using a pickup?

 

[steve_rolfeca]

I've been playing around with my red eye in the practice room. I just received a Sennheiser e604 as an early Christmas gift and tried plugging that into the effects return along with my full circle into the instrument input. The effect is subtle but I'm hearing an even smoother more natural sound. Not not a lot of microphone air but a slight decrease of piezoness. I'm not sure how this would translate on a gig as it's pretty subtle. Has anyone else tried putting a mic into the effects return while using a pickup?

Damn.

That would be really interesting for recording with my ABG as well!

 

[DoubleMIDI]

A mic really needs a preamp if you want to use it in the effects return. Not an impedance problem, but the signal level is simply too low to get something out of it without one.

 

[BassiklyAC]

Playing at Vibrato tonight. Perfect setting for the Red Eye to do its thing. House rig is a nice amp but not great for upright direct in with no preamp. Whole other vibe with the Red Eye in the equation.
But hey, you all probably know that by now.

 

[basss]

A mic really needs a preamp if you want to use it in the effects return. Not an impedance problem, but the signal level is simply too low to get something out of it without one.

Yes you'd think. I tried the mic into the RE's instrument input and also into the front end of the amp. Both sounded like you'd expect, very low gain, not a very solid sound. I think maybe the mic into the effects input is still low gain but adding just enough to give the pickup some extra depth. The difference is definitely there and it sounds good.

I recorded a couple quick samples. I hadn't warmed up before so excuse any ripe notes. All are recorded from the RE's DI into a Zoom livetrack L12, no effects or EQ, no boost and flat treble knob on the RE, no amp in the room. I did 2 passes on the first track with the mic into the effects return and Full Circle into the input, one with the mic just under the G side bridge foot about an inch off the top and the second with it swung out to point more at the F hole. The 2nd track is the pickup alone.

I hear much more mic in the recorded DI sound than I do when coming from the RE's 1/4" out to the amp. The difference when adding the mic is more subtle through the amp. Also the pickup alone sounds much more smooth and natural through the amp. The DI sound of the pickup is not good IMO. I have used the DI live though and it sounded good from what I remember. I have 3 gigs this week and I'm gonna try adding the mic.

 

[bassically_eli]

Yes you'd think. I tried the mic into the RE's instrument input and also into the front end of the amp. Both sounded like you'd expect, very low gain, not a very solid sound. I think maybe the mic into the effects input is still low gain but adding just enough to give the pickup some extra depth. The difference is definitely there and it sounds good.

I recorded a couple quick samples. I hadn't warmed up before so excuse any ripe notes. All are recorded from the RE's DI into a Zoom livetrack L12, no effects or EQ, no boost and flat treble knob on the RE, no amp in the room. I did 2 passes on the first track with the mic into the effects return and Full Circle into the input, one with the mic just under the G side bridge foot about an inch off the top and the second with it swung out to point more at the F hole. The 2nd track is the pickup alone.

I hear much more mic in the recorded DI sound than I do when coming from the RE's 1/4" out to the amp. The difference when adding the mic is more subtle through the amp. Also the pickup alone sounds much more smooth and natural through the amp. The DI sound of the pickup is not good IMO. I have used the DI live though and it sounded good from what I remember. I have 3 gigs this week and I'm gonna try adding the mic.

You're just going straight into the FX return? They make in line transformers for that. I have one of these that I have used with dynamic mics before. However, that leaves you without a separate volume control for the mic.

Edit: If you have a passive DI handy, you can also use that. Just plug the mic into the XLR end and a patch cable for the 1/4" connection to the RE.

 

[basss]

I'm aware of line transformers and have a couple in my adapters box. I'm using an XLR to quarter inch cable and it seems to work fine and makes for one less thing to carry, worry about, loose. I'm hoping this setup gives me an easy way to blend a mic and pick up. So far it's working. I know there are boxes made to do this but I have this already, it seems to be working, and it also seems to be plug and play. Who knows how it will work on the gig. I'll find out tonight

 

[flatback]

I'm not sure if there is anything beyond eliminating a redundant gainstage, but I have been doing a couple gigs with the RE plugged into the Felix using the XLR DI out of the RE and into the mic input of the Felix. Seems to sound better. Been using the Twin with the Y and the EAP mixed...Seems weird to blend two pickups into (the RE) and then into one channel of a two ch Felix. but I wanted to try the RE with a SS preamp. Sounds damn good. I like RE>Felix>MAS18 . Maybe my ears are old and I need all the extra mid clarity, but the extra clarity I like.

 

[Nathan Levine]

I’m not sure I said I didn’t like it, just that I couldn’t get it to work. I’d chalk that up more to me being a bit of a peasant when it comes to dialing in mid eq.

 

[dylanjohnson]

Yes you'd think. I tried the mic into the RE's instrument input and also into the front end of the amp. Both sounded like you'd expect, very low gain, not a very solid sound. I think maybe the mic into the effects input is still low gain but adding just enough to give the pickup some extra depth. The difference is definitely there and it sounds good.

I recorded a couple quick samples. I hadn't warmed up before so excuse any ripe notes. All are recorded from the RE's DI into a Zoom livetrack L12, no effects or EQ, no boost and flat treble knob on the RE, no amp in the room. I did 2 passes on the first track with the mic into the effects return and Full Circle into the input, one with the mic just under the G side bridge foot about an inch off the top and the second with it swung out to point more at the F hole. The 2nd track is the pickup alone.

I hear much more mic in the recorded DI sound than I do when coming from the RE's 1/4" out to the amp. The difference when adding the mic is more subtle through the amp. Also the pickup alone sounds much more smooth and natural through the amp. The DI sound of the pickup is not good IMO. I have used the DI live though and it sounded good from what I remember. I have 3 gigs this week and I'm gonna try adding the mic.

I think that DI sound isn't bad, especially if it was in a live mix. I did a gig in a church the other night with mine, and tried to give the sound man the DI off the Red Eye, but there were some weird issues going on with his system that were initially attributed to the bass, so he miced my amp. Ended up being a global issue with his PA.

 

[crd]

Yes you'd think. I tried the mic into the RE's instrument input and also into the front end of the amp. Both sounded like you'd expect, very low gain, not a very solid sound. I think maybe the mic into the effects input is still low gain but adding just enough to give the pickup some extra depth. The difference is definitely there and it sounds good.

I recorded a couple quick samples. I hadn't warmed up before so excuse any ripe notes. All are recorded from the RE's DI into a Zoom livetrack L12, no effects or EQ, no boost and flat treble knob on the RE, no amp in the room. I did 2 passes on the first track with the mic into the effects return and Full Circle into the input, one with the mic just under the G side bridge foot about an inch off the top and the second with it swung out to point more at the F hole. The 2nd track is the pickup alone.

I hear much more mic in the recorded DI sound than I do when coming from the RE's 1/4" out to the amp. The difference when adding the mic is more subtle through the amp. Also the pickup alone sounds much more smooth and natural through the amp. The DI sound of the pickup is not good IMO. I have used the DI live though and it sounded good from what I remember. I have 3 gigs this week and I'm gonna try adding the mic.

Are you sure there is any pick-up being blended in the signal when you have the mic going into the effects loop? The mic does sound good.

 

[crd]

I'm not sure if there is anything beyond eliminating a redundant gainstage, but I have been doing a couple gigs with the RE plugged into the Felix using the XLR DI out of the RE and into the mic input of the Felix. Seems to sound better. Been using the Twin with the Y and the EAP mixed...Seems weird to blend two pickups into (the RE) and then into one channel of a two ch Felix. but I wanted to try the RE with a SS preamp. Sounds damn good. I like RE>Felix>MAS18 . Maybe my ears are old and I need all the extra mid clarity, but the extra clarity I like.

Are you using one channel or two of the Yamahiko pick-up? Are you using the red-eye to blend the channels? The gain on the Felix is really nice. I know that is a strange thing to say but I can't get over how clean and pleasant the gain is.

 

[basss]

Are you sure there is any pick-up being blended in the signal when you have the mic going into the effects loop? The mic does sound good.

No I'm not sure. I did think of that and want to do another test comparing to a straight mic sound. Maybe the signal path gets broken when its used this way?

 

[Ric Vice]

If their is a Swiss Army Knife for tone quality, then with my limited experiences, the Red Eye fits the bill. I've used it with both EB and DB and rather than write a bunch of
useless superlatives, I just say that it improves the sound, making it easier to hear and play the instruments. Just my take of course.

 

[crd]

No I'm not sure. I did think of that and want to do another test comparing to a straight mic sound. Maybe the signal path gets broken when its used this way?

I would assume it would break the path but, I dunno. Regardless the clip sounds good!

 

[dylanjohnson]

If their is a Swiss Army Knife for tone quality, then with my limited experiences, the Red Eye fits the bill. I've used it with both EB and DB and rather than write a bunch of
useless superlatives, I just say that it improves the sound, making it easier to hear and play the instruments. Just my take of course.

I was wondering if you were going to try this out, Ric. My experience has been the same.

 

[BassDaddy11]

Me too, just got one the other day and love it.

 

[BlueRock]

I love what the Red Eye does sonically but here's what I'm not digging about it.

The tight proximity of the FX loop I/O and power in jacks. All my cables are typical right angle pedalboard fare that don't configure cleanly jammed together like that. Moving the power input to the top would work better. Since it's always on maybe better to just velcro the RE onto my amp by itself rather than trying to cable it up on a pedalboard. Not sure. Don't always use my own amp.

Some people like batteries in pedals but I'll never use them. Gaia stewardship issues mostly but they also go inconveniently dead. Were the battery option deleted that space could be used to move the jacks further apart.

The boost switch might be useful going between pizz and arco (yes?no?) but I very rarely even bring a bow to gigs anymore. Again for me that switch and pot use internal space which could relax the jack spacing instead. Same with the treble pot. Typical bass amps have all EQ I need.

Given how good the Red Eye sounds these are all issues I can live with. In terms of broader appeal keeping them might make sense. I don't know. It just feels cluttered. This is only my $0.02 after starting to get a bit of mileage with it.

 

[JBarz]

Blue rock, try affixing it on top of your Fdeck HPF pre if’n you’ve got one. It cleans up the pedal board issues you describe and lifts it to give you a little more room.

Every couple days I try routing this thing a little different (often at ya’lls suggestion on this thread), but I have come to the conclusion that, for me, full circle -> redeye-> hpf-pre -> whatever else is the ideal. Being able to knock the gain down 30% on the HPF pre on the front end makes it get along better with everything

 

[flatback]

Yeah the routing thing is kind of challenging. I made a little pedal board using a Nano, but I am really into the RE>Felix right now, it is less "acoustic" sounding then running it thru a tube pre but it is a clearer cleaner more direct sound. Also the eq and HPF and DI and all that are built in (rather then having them spread out across some different pedals. SO I am trying to organize a pedal board with the Felix (I like the mute and Boost buttons right there on the floor) a tuner (dont really need it now that I am back to a metal string on top Perp Stark and the tuning is stable...the Oliv goes out of tune every song...) I love having the little Ditto looper in there too and the Redeye. I remember when I first saw the Noble with all those 9v power plugs in the side and I thought "I'll never need that" but now it seems like a great way to only have one power cord.
Anyway, I HAVE been talking to Brad Sarno, I told him about the RedEYE and kind of wishfully (but with total respect for Daren and the Redeye business) said "Boy do I wish I could have the FET Imp thing INSIDE my V8 or Black Box so that I could just have the one preamp....He immediately said "Oh send it back I'll put a FET and a switch in so you can choose which you want to buffer" Then he told me about some famous amp maker in Cali here from the 70's Dumbledoor or sumthin who used to build his amps that way....
Anyway I am going to send my V8 and BB to Brad to have that done. I can imagine having the BB with a FET front end going into the Felix and that being a very compact but powerful front end for a piezo.
Im totally amazed that the Redeye works so well with SO MANY different piezos...I would have thought it would sound good with some but not others...For example I have been using the TWIN with an EAP in one ch and the bridged Yama in the other and it is DOPE. The Redeye does them both good even though they are opposite types of pickups. ANd together they sound great...actually I favor the EAP (which is much more controlled with the Redeye) and dial in a little Yama as needed.
So while I am excited to see if Brads version works, (I think this FET thing ...which I dont really understand has totally changed the way piezos respond) I am really into the Twin for its compact usefulness.