Double Bass Red Eye Preamp

[Jason Hollar]

Would this be a bad time to mention that I've gone back to Realist->TH500? It's a combination of simplicity, portability, and making it sound good enough with my hands. Least "basstasters" and "talkbass" opinion ever, I know.... I don't even know myself anymore

This is how I roll … but it depends on the gig!

Usually for most background gigs I’m Full Circle > MarkBass CMD 121.

As an aside, the MB head supposedly has a 500k input, but straight in has always sounded full with plenty of headroom.

Until … you take a gig with one of those power drummers and/or loud guitarists … or thru big sound systems.

I’m setting up a little preamp comparison today with the gizmos I’ve already got: old Boss Bass EQ, fdeck v1, Sadowsky sp2, along with a tc electronic poly tune2.

 

[crd]

Trialed the demo model a bit over the weekend. So far I'm not in love with it. Used it at an all day gig yesterday and swapped it out by the end of the show.

For full disclosure here was my signal path throughout the course of the day (and my thoughts)

1. Started with the Yamahiko dual pickup, summed with the cable to a single bridged output into the RedEye.
Yamahiko Dual pickup bridged> Red-Eye >Acoustic Image TEN2

This was probably my least favorite sound. Anything above fourth position on the G string just sounded thin to me. I fiddled with the treble, added boost... but really didn't care for it. I will say the boost did seem to deepen the tone a little.

2. Between tunes I switched to my multi channel summing phase inverter and unplugged the Red-Eye.
Yamahiko Dual pickup bridged> Phase Inverting Pedal >Acoustic Image TEN2

Ironically, this made my tone a little too dark and I really should have waited until a longer break to mess with it. It was a little too boomy for my taste and I kept fiddling with the EQ/HPF on the TEN2 to balance things out. It was an improvement, but went a little too far in the opposite direction.

3. This was the last change I made and I kept this for the rest of the show. I first plugged into my phase mixer, then into the Red-Eye.
Yamahiko with dual pickups ran into separate channels>Phase Mixer>Red-Eye>Acoustic Image TEN2

This was the most pleasing arrangement to my ear. Sounded closest to what I feel an acoustic bass should sound like. Flipping the phase on my pedal, then adjusting the treble on the Red-Eye really helped me to dial in the tone. This combination could be technically be considered a "keeper" as both are small, powered by battery, and sounded really great. However, this really defeats the intended purpose of the Red-Eye and the variable impedance thing. So while it sounded good, nothing is offered in this setup that I don't already own.

Overall, it's a really nicely built preamp and it is super easy to use. I also love the fact that it can drive a powered cab like my MAS16 with no trouble. Also gets high marks for accepting phantom power. I think the clincher for me is that I've been experimenting quite a bit with the Yamahiko and how it responds to different phase settings. I love playing it through the Felix, and I've created that smaller pedal that does a great job of adjusting phase in a pocket size solution. Had I never gone that route, I would probably love this solution.

View attachment 5158907

I've got two more gigs this week, both in a club that is notoriously difficult to dial in with a double bass. After that I'll be done with my trial period.

Posting the list for visibility. To my knowledge it is current. If anyone is not on the list that should be, let me know and I'll update... otherwise @Keith Rawlings you're on deck and I'll be reaching out soon for shipping details.s

Updated Redeye Trial List as of 08/15/2023
1. @Keith Rawlings
2. @Ryan in PDX
3. @Jason Hollar
4. @Maple
5. ???

I had a similar experience with the Yamahiko and Red-Eye. It seemed like no matter what configuration I used, they didn't get along. I tried running the TRS to separate TS cables into the Red eye but separate gain for channels isn't the same as mixing between the sides. I think the baseline impedance of the Red Eye is to low for the Yamahiko. It is the only piezo I've ever used that really likes 10 or 20 megs for an input impedance. It doesn't seem to fair to compare the Felix and Redeye since they are such different price points but the Felix works great with the Yamahiko.

 

[Hasty]

I had a similar experience with the Yamahiko and Red-Eye. It seemed like no matter what configuration I used, they didn't get along. I gave running the TRS to separate TS cables into the Red eye but separate gain for channels isn't the same as mixing between the sides. I think the baseline impedance of the Red Eye is to low for the Yamahiko. It is the only piezo I've ever used that really likes 10 or 20 megs for an input impedance. It doesn't seem to fair to compare the Felix and Redeye since they are such different price points but the Felix works great with the Yamahiko.

Yeah I think I will likely experience the same with two TS cables into the Red-Eye. No fault of the Red-Eye at all. Had I never used the Felix and all of the fancy options it makes available to me, I would probably be in love with the Red-Eye. Plus I absolutely love the phantom power option. I briefly looked around for a schematic like that, then sort of forgot about it. Now, I'm definitely wanting to find something like that.

However, the cost of the Felix sometimes gives me pause when taking it to some clubs just because it's another piece of expensive equipment that I don't want to have to keep track of or break. Plus its size can make it awkward to transport on gigs as an additional piece of cumbersome equipment. That was actually what started me down the path of building my own phase inverter preamp. Something I can just plug into a backline rig at the club and not worry about anything or fight for an outlet on an already overburdened power strip. Something small, effective, and battery-powered is always a nice options for situations like that.

Now when I play bigger places and I have to bring all my own stuff (amp, cab, electric bass, Felix, pedals, etc...)... then the gig box comes out in all its overblown glory.

 

[flatback]

So I have the TRS cable thing for my Y's but I also have two single 1/4 in jacks and using those with the Y's going into each side of the Redeye Twin can be excellent and not too anemic in terms of bass response. I like it maybe 70/30 favoring the E side. I know what you cats are saying about the bridged sound, I think that does need super high impedance. Also sounding really excellent is one of the Y pickups (G) going into the Sarno BB before the Redeye.

 

[Hasty]

So I have the TRS cable thing for my Y's but I also have two single 1/4 in jacks and using those with the Y's going into each side of the Redeye Twin can be excellent and not too anemic in terms of bass response. I like it maybe 70/30 favoring the E side. I know what you cats are saying about the bridged sound, I think that does need super high impedance. Also sounding really excellent is one of the Y pickups (G) going into the Sarno BB before the Redeye.

So I've had a few cool developments since my last post. I cobbled together a little passive splitter box that will take the TRS of the Yamahiko and create two outputs, one for each piezo. I ran them separately into the Red-Eye Twin, that did create a better overall sound. I also had a great e-mail conversation with Daren at Fire-Eye about phase, splitting, impedance, etc... he's a nice guy and super knowledgeable.

Field Report with the Twin:

All that said, I took the Red-Eye Twin out on my gig last night, along with my Remic Green. We were playing at a small local jazz club here in town. I specifically chose this venue as my test case for two reasons. Number one- it has a PA and a backline amp. So this would be a good representation (for me) of how I might best utilize the setup for what I do. Number two- This club is really hard to manage for bass, quick to feedback... weird surfaces... and it's a long skinny club. If you can make it here...

Got there a little early to set up and try to dial in a little sound. (Totally biased and possibly uninformed opinion alert) While the twin sounded much better with the signal split, it didn't absolutely blow me away. In all fairness, this is likely due to the Yamahiko and not the Twin. As much as I love the Yamahiko, I don't view it as a plug and play option. I've got to coax things out of it a little for its best sound, however once it's dialed in... it's awesome. I just had a tough time dialing it in the way I wanted it. This might be because the backline amp is a Peavey something or other... not sure. However if I'm going to demo this a backline solution then I've got to work with what I've got.

Here are some positives:

• The Twin is really easy to work with. Also, I learned that if you're using both inputs and set it as A+B... the red button on the left that normally switches channels will act as a mute. It only two me three different cables and about 2 minutes of mild panic to realize that.
• The phantom power option is simply amazing.
• It plays well with other things. I really liked the fact that I could run the Send to the backline amp and the XLR to the PA. I ended up using the 1/4" send to the backline and put it behind the guitar player so he could use it as a monitor. I was able to hear through the PA just fine so I used that.
• The Twin blends wonderfully with the Remic. I sent one XLR feed from the Twin and another from the Remic and was able to get a really great tone that balanced well. Sometimes the Remic alone can get rumbly.
• Phantom power on a preamp is really really awesome. Didn't have to worry about a plug, batteries, any of that.

Here are the negatives:

• While I could live with the Twin tone, it's not my favorite sound that I've gotten out of my current setup.
• Wish it had a phase option. I was able to discuss this one with Daren. He said he almost added a phase, but it would likely push the limits of what phantom power could effectively provide for his preamp with that extra opamp. I totally respect that.

I brought a camera to the gig to record, and I also brought my handy Zoom H6. I normally set the camera up in a nice spot and put the Zoom towards the back, this usually provides a really good sound balance. However last night the place was packed and the crowd was lively. So the audio from the Zoom in the back was worthless... just lots of crowd noise. I also had to set the camera a little closer than normal due to the number of patrons (what a wonderful problem for a jazz trio!). So the sound quality is not quite what I prefer, but I feel like it's a decent representation of how we sounded. The bass is a little low in the mix, but that's because that little camcorder doesn't pick it up as well.

I wanted to add video this to show just how well the Twin blended with the Remic on the gig. Sure it's not the twin soloed, but it's a great way to show how it can be utilized with something else to give a really good tone.



Final thoughts, this is a great preamp. Solid, well thought out, nicely built and designed. As much as I liked it, there wasn't really anything it offered me that I don't already have. If I had not spent so much time building my own preamps and dialing them in to match my personal needs, I would probably be buying a Twin. If you like using a mic of any sort and blend it with a piezo then this is a fantastic option to consider. I don't think you would be disappointed.

 

[Hasty]

And just like that... the Red-Eye Twin is moving to the next person. @Keith Rawlings heads up!

For visibility, here's the most current list:

Updated Redeye Trial List as of 08/22/2023
1. @Keith Rawlings
2. @Ryan in PDX
3. @Jason Hollar
4. @Maple

I'd also like to give a shout out to the true hero in this whole process. That shipping box appears to have weathered everything like a champ.

 

[bherman]

In case anyone is looking to but a RedEye single - I just listed mine in the classifieds. I have and use a Twin, thought another one was needed but not...

For Sale - Red-Eye Preamp, Mint condition

 

[Ric Vice]

I’m so fond of my Red Eye that I purchased a Red Eye Twin that came today. Having the dual individual channel gains gives me a tone and volume control to use with a powered speaker. It’s a simple system just volume, tone controls and a boost, but sometimes simple is the best way to go. The tone and timbre are so good coming from the RedEye that it pretty much trumps everything else in my ears today. Just my take until I take it out on several gigs.

 

[bherman]

I’m so fond of my Red Eye that I purchased a Red Eye Twin that came today. Having the dual individual channel gains gives me a tone and volume control to use with a powered
speaker. It’s a simple system just volume, tone controls and a boost, but sometimes simple is the best way to go. The tone and timbre are so good coming from the RedEye that it pretty much trumps everything else in my ears today. Just my take until I take it out on several gigs.

I’ll be really interested to hear how that works for you. I’m using a twin, but it’s because I do a lot of doubling and allows me to set levels for both an electric bass and an upright, while giving me the right impedance for the upright. It really is a great piece of gear.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Ok - I've spent a few weeks with the gem that is the Red Eye Twin, and it is indeed a revelation in fattening up the sound of a piezo pickup - especially with slap. I ran it with my Vic's Model C Pickup on my Kay and with my Vic's Model B Pickup on my carved bass and it sounds great! However, with the Vic's Model C Pickup it worked better splitting the stereo signal through my K&K Rockabilly Preamp first in line, then running the split signal into the Red Eye (Bridge signal into Channel A and Neck/Clicky signal into Channel B), then into my AI Clarus 2R Series 4 amp's first channel going out to my DoubleShot Cabinet. This will probably be the most utilized application for me of the Red Eye as most of my gigs are still playing rockabilly/roots.

Here are my thoughts:
The volume was much more subdued when using the Red Eye by itself with the Vic's Model B as the gain knobs are a bit tricky and can feedback if you pump them up too much; of course this is without using the HPF on the Clarus. I ended up having to work with the level and master knobs on the Clarus to get the volume I needed out of the carved bass and the Model B. This wasn't much of a problem; it just required more fiddling with the amp. I left the boost on full-time and cut it off when I busted out the bow to try some of the long tones I've been working on with my teacher (more on that later in another thread). Now with the K&K and the Model C I was able to dial in a glorious tone that was both full and which still possessed a significant amount of snap from the clicky pickup. I noticed that this particular setup seems to work better through the DoubleShot with the front firing smaller speaker turned off; but with my carved bass through the Red Eye without the K&K it sounded better with the front speaker turned on. Go figure? I can definitely see why this preamp is so well regarded for use with piezo pickups.

I plugged my Thunderbird into the Red Eye as well and I didn't really notice much difference from it being plugged straight into the amp. I can see how it could be nice to use as an A/B switch for doubling, but I already run the Bird into my BassBone and run that into Channel 2 on the Clarus for a little more tone control over the very neutral Clarus amp. I plan on using the two channels of the Red Eye to mix the bridge/clicky signals from my K&K into the Clarus Channel 1 and keep the second channel open for the BassBone/Thunderbird; or for a microphone for the doghouse. I've been messing around with mixing a mic for the last couple of years as it really warms up everything and brings more "woodiness" to my bass. This has been really fun; thank you again to the folks at FireEye for allowing our group the opportunity to test out this killer little box.

@Ryan in PDX -- your next, so send me a PM with your address and I'll get the Red Eye out to you tomorrow.

 

[Ryan in PDX]

Great timing, @Keith Rawlings - right around the time it should be getting here, I'll be starting rehearsals with my first big band, which will be the loudest environment I've ever played double bass in, by far. Looking forward to comparing it with/against the fdeck, which has been my only pre so far.

If anyone has anything specific they'd like me to test, pile it on here. I play a ply bass with spirocores and a full circle. The contexts will be a trio, 6-7 piece combo, and big band. Probably a couple of jams here and there. All jazz pizz.

 

[vanselus]

I’m no @vanselus, so the people coming up to tell me the bass sounded great are not often women in leather pants. Make of that what you will.

But please do tell me more about that Henriksen combo with the 12. I’ve always wondered about those, but never encountered one in the wild. I have a virtuoso guitar colleague who plays Henriksen guitar amps, and they sound ridiculously good. But then he’s also ridiculously good, so it’s hard to tell what’s what.

Here’s a picture of Ron Carter’s Dazzle setup this week featuring that very Henriksen, for reference! I’m sure he sounded amazing, I couldn’t go

 

[Ric Vice]

While I have all the respect for Ron Carters legacy and his basslines his approach to amplifier placement is unique to him. I’ve seen him twice at the ISB conventions once in Rochester and again in Bloomington. Both times he used different amplifiers placed high on a pole stand or a table. He used a Epifani the first time and the Acoustic Image Double Shot the second time The Double Shot sounded great according to Chris and other folks who were closer to Ron than I was. Now he’s using the Henrickson so all is good. I think that with Ron it’s just a practical way for him to get his onstage amp closer to his ears. Like the Double Shot, my MAS cabinets can be placed higher of the ground and still have decent low end response. Just my take of course.

 

[Antonio Abete]

If anyone should be interested I'm willing to trade my Fire-Eye Red-Eye preamp as-new for a FDeck HPF-Pre Series 3 in the same conditions

I'll ship from Italy with UPS

Thanks

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/fire-eye-red-eye-preamp-for-fdeck-hpf-pre-series-3.1625629/

 

[Ryan in PDX]

TL;DR impressive unit

This will be frustrating for some to hear, but I never had a chance to properly A/B the demo unit with my fdeck live. Rehearsals have been fast paced, soundchecks non-existent, and the music needs to take priority anyway. I thought I'd listen to other bassists through the red-eye at the last jam, but only one other bassist showed, and he played bass guitar... I only ended up using one preamp or the other for each playing event. I never felt like I was missing anything with either device.

A big takeaway is that for me, right now, my gear is fine.

That said, I certainly A/B'd it at home.
Full circle - passive a/b box - (fdeck/redeye) - radial proD2 - mixer

This setup lets me connect either preamp directly to my pickup, and sends the outputs through the same transformers, so I'm not factoring the red-eye's own active, transformer-based DI into the comparison. There's also no way to know which preamp I'm hearing by looking at the unpowered switcher - I have to look at the mixer meters to see which channel is getting signal. I think this was a "reasonably-blind" test for one dude to pull off.

Both preamps made my bass sound like a piezo. The red-eye did pull out a bit of the traditional honk that we all know and hate, and the treble knob was very usable. With the knob a little lower than center, I couldn't reliably tell which preamp I was going through. With the treble knob above center, the redeye was easy to pick out, and generally sounded better. A little more clarity. I'm not sure that it's better than following the fdeck with an EQ device (not tested).

Myths:
Sounds like a mic! False
Sounds like MBOL! False
Sounds better than an fdeck! Likely

I really wanted this thing to be all hype, because the marketing is painfully frustrating for anyone with a STEM background to read... but it's a solid device that sounds great. Build quality is top notch. I opened the back to check on the battery, and everything looks nice in there. The back plate even has two pieces foam to idiot-proof the back panel replacement - if you're replacing it in a hurry, it won't matter which way you put the plate on. One less thing to think about on a gig. Nice touch. The form factor is weird, with the side knobs and top/bottom jacks, but there's no way they could have made it a standard pedal format without increasing the size.

I was hoping to trace the input path of the circuit, but I wasn't about to disassemble the unit.

It's heading on to the next tester tomorrow morning.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I appreciate someone who is willing to really do a deep dive into this stuff. As a player who wants a minimum of complexity and gear issues on the gig the thing that is so great about the redeye is that it makes the piezo sound good by reducing the unwanted quack and unevenness. It's not a mike or MBOL like you said but it's a sound that makes my bass sound enough like a DB to satisfy me in gig situations with no extras that I really don't want to deal with anymore.

 

[Ric Vice]

As is often the case "beauty is in the ears of the listener". I own a Grace Felix and a Headway EDB-2 and both those preamps can really refine the sound of a piezo pickup. With that in mind there's something different
about the sound of the RedEye. The instrument becomes easier to play. Just my take however. For me, MBOL is an overused description and not especially useful the FDeck HPF Buffer Preamp is a very useful device
for amps because few of them have High Pass Filters.

 

[Jmilitsc]

As is often the case "beauty is in the ears of the listener". I own a Grace Felix and a Headway EDB-2 and both those preamps can really refine the sound of a piezo pickup. With that in mind there's something different
about the sound of the RedEye. The instrument becomes easier to play. Just my take however. For me, MBOL is an overused description and not especially useful the FDeck HPF Buffer Preamp is a very useful device
for amps because few of them have High Pass Filters.

I’m loving the Twin pedal still - for the double bass i have it in front of the FDeck HPF3 into a PJB Suitcase Compact. That high pass filter is indeed super helpful, and its phase switch makes a substantial difference in the rooms I play in. I hate having to use pedals at all, but this is the most pleasing amplified sound I’ve ever gotten to my ear, and with this signal path you’re right - it’s crazy to say it but the bass feels easier to play.

I’m still messing w/ the sound for electric in the other channel, currently Twin in front of an EBS compressor and a Tech21 VTBass pre. I’m in “liking” stage still, not yet “loving”, but i don’t have enough gigs to bring the Fender to, so it’s taking forever to find the right settings.

 

[Jason Hollar]

Trial Red Eye Twin received!

Good timing as I have several upcoming events to try it out.

I’ll post reports asap.

 

[Ric Vice]

The Twin is such a convenient preamp. I ordered a Y cord so I can experiment with different tone and volume settings using the same pickup. Just a little experiment I had in mind.