This is getting ridiculous. I had several gigs over the weekend and used the RE with a Vic's model B directly into the amp. I was trying the Vic's to see how it would work for students since it is so cheap and easy. Everybody raved about how great the bass sounded. A musician friend in the audience told me it was the best sound I had ever gotten! I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. The gigs were different enough that I gave the setup a pretty good workout. They all were successful soundwise. Is this my rig of the future? Who knew?
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Double Bass Red Eye Preamp
- Thread starter Pat Harris
- Start date
I’m becoming more convinced that regardless of what amp/speaker combination I’m using which can vary widely between gigs. The RedEye is essential for tone shaping while all the other preamps I own (whether it’s the Grace Felix, Headway EDB-2 H.E., or the Traynor SB 106) merely secondary. I’m toying with the idea of paring the RedEye Single with a Broughton Messenger Jr. once they become available again. Just a thought.
That could be a great marriage. I like the option to xlr out pre EQ from the Red Eye or post EQ from the Messenger Jr. There's nothing I'd remove or add. Thanks for the suggestion.
It's great. I forgot to bring it to a session I play monthly with a house amp - a little Hartke, 50 watts I think with a 10" speaker. I've been really enjoying this amp and recommending to students on a budget. Without the Red Eye it sounded and felt so crappy that it really affected my playing. The difference is less pronounced with better gear, but it's palpable. FWIW my usual for jazz is Lifeline/Red Eye/tcbam 200/Upshot.
Now that’s a testimonial. The Hartke combos are very difficult to coax decent sound from. Of all the budget combos I’ve played through the Hartke’
are the least suited to accept a piezo pickup. They are a real challenge. The inexpensive Acoustic combos and Fender Rumbles are so much easier to deal with. Just my take.
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With the gigs this week with the micro RE/18p I was using the twin with the Yamahiko in one ch and the EAP in the other. Damn. The combo is killing and changing the balance between them is like having a focus knob: more diffuse (EAP heavy) more direct (Yama )
Yesterday as the crowd got more lobster and louder I just turned up the Yama in the mix. Killin.
Yesterday as the crowd got more lobster and louder I just turned up the Yama in the mix. Killin.
From what I gather 1-3 times a year depending on demand. Getting on the notify when back in stock list lets him know you're interested.
Used the Redeye to blend a Realist Copperhead and a Krivo today - big win.
Trialed the demo model a bit over the weekend. So far I'm not in love with it. Used it at an all day gig yesterday and swapped it out by the end of the show.
For full disclosure here was my signal path throughout the course of the day (and my thoughts)
1. Started with the Yamahiko dual pickup, summed with the cable to a single bridged output into the RedEye.
Yamahiko Dual pickup bridged> Red-Eye >Acoustic Image TEN2
This was probably my least favorite sound. Anything above fourth position on the G string just sounded thin to me. I fiddled with the treble, added boost... but really didn't care for it. I will say the boost did seem to deepen the tone a little.
2. Between tunes I switched to my multi channel summing phase inverter and unplugged the Red-Eye.
Yamahiko Dual pickup bridged> Phase Inverting Pedal >Acoustic Image TEN2
Ironically, this made my tone a little too dark and I really should have waited until a longer break to mess with it. It was a little too boomy for my taste and I kept fiddling with the EQ/HPF on the TEN2 to balance things out. It was an improvement, but went a little too far in the opposite direction.
3. This was the last change I made and I kept this for the rest of the show. I first plugged into my phase mixer, then into the Red-Eye.
Yamahiko with dual pickups ran into separate channels>Phase Mixer>Red-Eye>Acoustic Image TEN2
This was the most pleasing arrangement to my ear. Sounded closest to what I feel an acoustic bass should sound like. Flipping the phase on my pedal, then adjusting the treble on the Red-Eye really helped me to dial in the tone. This combination could be technically be considered a "keeper" as both are small, powered by battery, and sounded really great. However, this really defeats the intended purpose of the Red-Eye and the variable impedance thing. So while it sounded good, nothing is offered in this setup that I don't already own.
Overall, it's a really nicely built preamp and it is super easy to use. I also love the fact that it can drive a powered cab like my MAS16 with no trouble. Also gets high marks for accepting phantom power. I think the clincher for me is that I've been experimenting quite a bit with the Yamahiko and how it responds to different phase settings. I love playing it through the Felix, and I've created that smaller pedal that does a great job of adjusting phase in a pocket size solution. Had I never gone that route, I would probably love this solution.
I've got two more gigs this week, both in a club that is notoriously difficult to dial in with a double bass. After that I'll be done with my trial period.
Posting the list for visibility. To my knowledge it is current. If anyone is not on the list that should be, let me know and I'll update... otherwise @Keith Rawlings you're on deck and I'll be reaching out soon for shipping details.s
Updated Redeye Trial List as of 08/15/2023
1. @Keith Rawlings
2. @Ryan in PDX
3. @Jason Hollar
4. @Maple
5. ???
For full disclosure here was my signal path throughout the course of the day (and my thoughts)
1. Started with the Yamahiko dual pickup, summed with the cable to a single bridged output into the RedEye.
Yamahiko Dual pickup bridged> Red-Eye >Acoustic Image TEN2
This was probably my least favorite sound. Anything above fourth position on the G string just sounded thin to me. I fiddled with the treble, added boost... but really didn't care for it. I will say the boost did seem to deepen the tone a little.
2. Between tunes I switched to my multi channel summing phase inverter and unplugged the Red-Eye.
Yamahiko Dual pickup bridged> Phase Inverting Pedal >Acoustic Image TEN2
Ironically, this made my tone a little too dark and I really should have waited until a longer break to mess with it. It was a little too boomy for my taste and I kept fiddling with the EQ/HPF on the TEN2 to balance things out. It was an improvement, but went a little too far in the opposite direction.
3. This was the last change I made and I kept this for the rest of the show. I first plugged into my phase mixer, then into the Red-Eye.
Yamahiko with dual pickups ran into separate channels>Phase Mixer>Red-Eye>Acoustic Image TEN2
This was the most pleasing arrangement to my ear. Sounded closest to what I feel an acoustic bass should sound like. Flipping the phase on my pedal, then adjusting the treble on the Red-Eye really helped me to dial in the tone. This combination could be technically be considered a "keeper" as both are small, powered by battery, and sounded really great. However, this really defeats the intended purpose of the Red-Eye and the variable impedance thing. So while it sounded good, nothing is offered in this setup that I don't already own.
Overall, it's a really nicely built preamp and it is super easy to use. I also love the fact that it can drive a powered cab like my MAS16 with no trouble. Also gets high marks for accepting phantom power. I think the clincher for me is that I've been experimenting quite a bit with the Yamahiko and how it responds to different phase settings. I love playing it through the Felix, and I've created that smaller pedal that does a great job of adjusting phase in a pocket size solution. Had I never gone that route, I would probably love this solution.
I've got two more gigs this week, both in a club that is notoriously difficult to dial in with a double bass. After that I'll be done with my trial period.
Posting the list for visibility. To my knowledge it is current. If anyone is not on the list that should be, let me know and I'll update... otherwise @Keith Rawlings you're on deck and I'll be reaching out soon for shipping details.s
Updated Redeye Trial List as of 08/15/2023
1. @Keith Rawlings
2. @Ryan in PDX
3. @Jason Hollar
4. @Maple
5. ???
Could you tell me more about the phase inverter / summing pedal - looks like something I need
To be clear, you did not try the two channels of the yamahiko directly into the redeye? Not meant as a criticism, and I get that you might not have had a soundcheck, and I also don't know anything about the yamahiko. Just curious since buffering is the intended use of the product according to the manufacturer's ad copy... But you're not the first to prefer the redeye DI-only while leaving the buffering to another device(s).
Would this be a bad time to mention that I've gone back to Realist->TH500? It's a combination of simplicity, portability, and making it sound good enough with my hands. Least "basstasters" and "talkbass" opinion ever, I know.... I don't even know myself anymore 
Connecting two piezos together without an individual buffer for each first is not a good idea. The sound suffers as the piezos try to drive the other one with their output signal.
I would try the RedEye with one Yamahiko element and disconnect the other to hear if the RedEye does a good job or not. If the RedEye has two inputs/channels, fed each Yamahiko element to one of the inputs.
I would try the RedEye with one Yamahiko element and disconnect the other to hear if the RedEye does a good job or not. If the RedEye has two inputs/channels, fed each Yamahiko element to one of the inputs.
To clarify my own question, I meant "each element of the yamahiko into its own channel on the red-eye," for the reasons @DoubleMIDI points out (correctly, as always) above.
Both fair statements. To clarify further, the stock Yamahiko configuration for two piezos is to have them bridged into a single TS output. Each foot of the bridge interconnected to a single output.
However after reading several threads about some fine folk that have run each piezo separately to improve sound by inverting the phase, I decided to fabricate my own dual input cable and run it through a TRS cable. Originally it was created to use with the Felix, but I've toyed with a few other options since then. Here's an image of my current configuration with the TRS connection:
Since I don't have two TS cables, or a separate breakout cable that can run to two discrete inputs... I just use an adapter cable that functions like the stock setup and combines them into a single TS cable. I'm not against the idea of running two separate TS cables, I just didn't have the physical cables to accomplish that because I normally split my signals at my preamp input (just as @DoubleMIDI stated above) through the use of the TRS cable. For the next gig I'll likely just run a single element straight into the RedEye. I have the ability to do that on my summing mixer pedal because I can isolate and/or turn off any of the inputs without affecting the other but that would defeat the purpose of the RedEye itself so I'll likely just unscrew whichever element I don't want to use.
I'm sure I've forgotten something important, so if I think of it I'll post it later.
Could you tell me more about the phase inverter / summing pedal - looks like something I need
That's a long and interesting conversation. I'll do a quick summary so as to not hijack this thread. @Chris Fitzgerald if it's too much of a distraction, let me know and I can make it into its own dedicated post.
I've been tinkering with a summing mixer that also includes a phase inverter for each input. I've made several versions, each having some sort of improvement. My eventual goal is to release it as an Open Source project for whoever wants to build one. I'm on revision 3ish currently, but with several hybrid preamps that have evolved from each one. I'll include some thumbnails and a short description of each. I've posted a couple of these images in other threads, but I love talking about them so here we go. If you skip the rest of this post I understand, since it has a bit of drift.
Version 1.0- This was sort of my proof of concept device. It's two channel phase inverter, a James tone stack, and a mute for each channel. The preamp is a ZVEX SHO circuit. It was cool and exciting, definitely had the ability to drive any sort of amp. However after a while it felt too squeaky clean, sterile, and the tone stack was too modern sounding with the preamp. Also, the mutes popped horribly when activated. sigh...
Version 2.0- This one I really liked. I updated this one to include three channels. Two for the Yamahiko and one for an electric bass. Super basic and flexible. Sort of a "bring your own preamp" scenario. I also improved the mute by incorporating a Vactrol. So much quieter. However on the original PCB I placed the phase toggle switches too close to the potentiometers, so I had to wire them off board. So they're really low on the enclosure.
Version 2.1- Same as above, but I combined it with a DIY Particle Accelerator PCB from Nathan at Sushi Box FX. I also added a microphone input. I absolutely love this pedal and gig with it frequently. Wonderful phase control, the ability to add a microphone, and a great tube based tonestack. The downsides to this version... It's not a realistic Open Source type project as it relies on the addition of a PCB produced by someone else and it's not fair to expect it to be available forever. Plus not everyone wants to build a pedal that produces potentially lethal voltage. Also, no DI out and it requires wall power. That sort of defeats my original purpose for this whole project. I wanted something small, battery powered, and with a DI out. Something you could just throw in the bass case and use anywhere and with anything... sort of like the Red-Eye itself.
Version 3.0- I redesigned the PCB so I could place the toggles in a better spot. I improved the Vactrol based mute, and also included a battery indicator based on the wonderful work on the FDeck Pre. So when plugged in the battery will flash as long as there are at least 7.8V. The power draw on this one is super low, so a battery should last a long long time. I also updated the artwork on the project. This is the one I took to the gig.
Version 3.1- After I redesigned the PCB to allow better spacing with the phase switches, I moved moved to a different enclosure that had a little more space, and added a DI output with ground lift. I also added an Alembic/Fender Bassman style preamp circuit and had a PCB fabricated. This one sounds really nice and the preamp really works nicely with it. Warm and soft, in the best of ways. This one only draws around 10mA or so, which is nice for something you want to keep in your bag all the time.
Version 3.0 and 3.1 will likely be what I focus on for the Open Source project. I just need to clean up the layout a little more, come up with a build guide, and find some people to try it out. It's definitely not a fiscal/capitol type venture. It's just something I created for myself, but if someone else wants to build it I figured I'd try to make it as accessible and easy as possible. One version is a bring your own pre and the other has a pretty darn good pre in it that I think sounds good. I also used a Lightning Boy transformer, so it sounds fantastic going to FOH (in my opinion).
Finally... version 4.0... the version that was built out of something that I cannot describe or name... the "Ever' Lovin' Gobstopper" (with thanks to @Karl Kaminski for the name). Imagine version 3.0 combined with a 3W tube amp that also includes a line level out and a DI out. Plus each channel has its own James tone stack. There is also an HPF going out. Sort of an homage to the old Garnet Herzog built for Randy Bachman... but with the bass in mind. I just finished this one this week and I absolutely adore it. I took it out tonight for a big band rehearsal and it sounded so good. The only downsides... it definitely doesn't fit in a gig bag and it absolutely will not run on batteries. I still need to label the back panel and put the DI transformer in there. It is an absolute beast of an overkill preamp... but I am what I am... someone who likes to tinker. Sure the waterslide decal slipped a bit, but that just adds to the overall charm. I do with I had a UV printer though... that would be nice.
@Hasty very impressive! I’m always impressed with master tinkerers. Here in town I’ve been friends with one for decades - Gary Falk at Falk Audio. He’s retired now, but I’ve seen him build his own mixing board, design PA speakers and power modules, etc.
Personally, I just tinker at playing the bass!
Personally, I just tinker at playing the bass!
