Check out Broughton P15 built by Azure Skies; there's a build thread here about them. He builds them in small batches of 15.
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REDDI, I'm a bit confused
- Thread starter primusfan1989
- Start date
Check out Broughton P15 built by Azure Skies; there's a build thread here about them. He builds them in small batches of 15.
The SVT-DI wasn't far off that price. Pretty sure it was over $500. The Khan remake of it is $600.
Anyway, it's not that there aren't other really good ways of getting a solidly tubey DI sound. And really, there were similar tube DI's that predate the REDDI by a decade or more. Groove Tubes Brick and Evil Twin spring to mind. REDDI is the only one that was successful. And now it has a lot of pretty stiff competition from quite a few companies, including my pals at Ampeg who just came out with low wattage and low weight Portaflex tube amps with a DI from the output transformer that you can use without a cab hooked up
But the REDDI is the first one that caught on in a big way, and there's a reason for it...actual tube amp sound in a near-flat-response DI that's built like a tank.And of course there's Peter Montessi, the head of A-Designs. Peter is a great guy who I've seen do some really nice things for his customers. He's also designed a lot of high grade studio gear that are staples in the top studios around the world.
That said, owning a REDDI won't make or break you as a player. I went for years and years without one and I did OK before I got one. I have one now because I love mic'ed cabs powered with tube amps but encountered too much static from some sound techs about using only a mic. And then I'd get static about making changes on my amp when I'd use an amp DI. So I figured my best bet for getting the sound I want in the house in DI form was to throw the REDDI at them, and it worked. If you're getting a sound you like with the gear you have now, that's cool. But the REDDI costs $745 because it's worth it. Might not be worth it to everyone in the bass playing world, but it's worth it to a lot of us.
Hello PrimusFan1989,
You wrote that your question hasn't been answered. I'm not sure as to how I should answer your question, you having posed several. Two sentences have question marks but I'm sure that they don't require an answer as you have already formed an opinion. Kirk was wonderful enough to provide a superb answer.
I can tell you from my own experiences that, yes, the REDDI is worth the price tag. Most people that know me, know my story and my feelings about tone. Having recorded with more than a few people in my lifetime and having worked on more than a couple of tours of varying styles, it is important for me to have a bulletproof sound. Tonally, the REDDI does that for me. It is solid and gives me the security I need to perform at my best. This not a sneaker add or some sports drink and I don't mean for it to sound as such. My apologies if it does.
I became a fan of the product before I became an endorser. I am skeptical about everything after having lent my name to things that would become lackluster when they reached production. The REDDI stays consistent for me and accents different preamps as well as the A Design Mic preamps that I use. I've been a user since 2003. I can't say that I've used in on countless recordings but since I've had it, I'm probably close to about 2,000. That's with the transducer on my upright, my fretless basses, my signature basses, my ABGs, my 12 string Fodera, my former Gibsons, my former 8 string Rick, my Hofner copy that I donated, bowed chopsticks (seriously), an SM57, anything that I need to use to create a successful recording. I have experimented with many DIs and recored with many.
Personally, I don't know how many boxes I've sold just by using it. Rickey Lawson bought four as soon as I finished a recording for him. I think Stanley Clarke purchased a couple. Matt Serletic purchased six, and so on and so on and so on. It's been on films, commercials, TV shows, records, demos, tours and just all around fun gigs. Suffice it to say that I can find what I'm listening for.
As for the price, many have stated that $300 in parts would equate to a $745 box. So that you understand, distributors have to put food on their table, builders have to put food on their table. There is the cost of design, the cost of assembly, the cost of parts... There is the cost of metal. (Can't just purchase a few boxes or the cost would be higher.) That goes for all of those parts. Separately, when sourcing parts, most companies have usually multiply by four to get the MSRP.
I'm sure that your friend can manufacture a box for you and probably a good one. Ask yourself one question. Is he willing to make 5,000 of them for free?
You wrote that your question hasn't been answered. I'm not sure as to how I should answer your question, you having posed several. Two sentences have question marks but I'm sure that they don't require an answer as you have already formed an opinion. Kirk was wonderful enough to provide a superb answer.
I can tell you from my own experiences that, yes, the REDDI is worth the price tag. Most people that know me, know my story and my feelings about tone. Having recorded with more than a few people in my lifetime and having worked on more than a couple of tours of varying styles, it is important for me to have a bulletproof sound. Tonally, the REDDI does that for me. It is solid and gives me the security I need to perform at my best. This not a sneaker add or some sports drink and I don't mean for it to sound as such. My apologies if it does.
I became a fan of the product before I became an endorser. I am skeptical about everything after having lent my name to things that would become lackluster when they reached production. The REDDI stays consistent for me and accents different preamps as well as the A Design Mic preamps that I use. I've been a user since 2003. I can't say that I've used in on countless recordings but since I've had it, I'm probably close to about 2,000. That's with the transducer on my upright, my fretless basses, my signature basses, my ABGs, my 12 string Fodera, my former Gibsons, my former 8 string Rick, my Hofner copy that I donated, bowed chopsticks (seriously), an SM57, anything that I need to use to create a successful recording. I have experimented with many DIs and recored with many.
Personally, I don't know how many boxes I've sold just by using it. Rickey Lawson bought four as soon as I finished a recording for him. I think Stanley Clarke purchased a couple. Matt Serletic purchased six, and so on and so on and so on. It's been on films, commercials, TV shows, records, demos, tours and just all around fun gigs. Suffice it to say that I can find what I'm listening for.
As for the price, many have stated that $300 in parts would equate to a $745 box. So that you understand, distributors have to put food on their table, builders have to put food on their table. There is the cost of design, the cost of assembly, the cost of parts... There is the cost of metal. (Can't just purchase a few boxes or the cost would be higher.) That goes for all of those parts. Separately, when sourcing parts, most companies have usually multiply by four to get the MSRP.
I'm sure that your friend can manufacture a box for you and probably a good one. Ask yourself one question. Is he willing to make 5,000 of them for free?
Thank you for relating your experience. You and JimmyM just reignited the GAS for one of these!
A year ago my band went in-ears exclusively. At first I resisted this change. I had amazing tone happening with my my tube preamp, ClassD poweramp and fEARful cabs. However, once I did a few gigs with a IEM setup there was no going back. I walk into the venue with only 2 basses in a double gigbag and a pedalboard. One trip and completely setup in 2 minutes. The simplicity with the load in and the sound engineers being able to make us sound great every time without dealing with stage amp bleed into mics is revolutionary. No more volume wars on stage and you get to hear everything the way you want to.
With that being said the quality of my signal chain is more crucial that before. You really hear changes you make to your gear. Pickups, onboard preamps, and even cable changes make audible differences. The problem I had at first is my sound in my ears wasn't exactly warm. I got to hear exactly what I was sending to the FOH and it was dry and sterile sounding. A Markbass Compressore helped immensely but I think I need to take it up a notch with my DI signal. Especially since I am only using the Markbass and a Zoom B3 as a multi-effects and main DI. ( I know the Zoom is most likely the culprit here but I love the patches and all of the effects I can get out of the thing.)
The reason I don't already have the REDDI is what the OP is getting at, the price. Also the size and weight and not being pedalboard friendly are considerations as well, however minor.
OK. Going to sell some of the multitude of basses I have laying around here.
The Red DI is a rip off. Especially the new rack mount version. Plus I have seen with my on eyes how the customer service up at A designs can be and after that those guys will never get any of my money.
Plus Josh Broughton has a product that simply smokes the reddi.
Well I took my Broughton P-15 to the studio much like the one you've pictured and the guys that run the studio instantly fell in love with it and mentioned the difference between it and the REDDI and now he is awaiting two P-15's for his studio.
I think the Bro-Ton sounds sooooo much better than a REDDI.
- Jul 3, 2004
- 1,300
- 641
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Ernie Ball MusicMan Guitars
Cool! The Akham Zephyr I just received has a custom Cinemag OP transformer as well as a NOS buffer tube.
I guess I got the rest of the hand built tube preamp that sounds excellent as a bonus (for the same price).
- Aug 21, 2003
- 11,584
- 18,593
- Disclosures
- A-Designs Mike Lull GK Tsunami Cables GHS Strings RMI Basswitch Nordstrand Pickups Darkglass
Just to give a bit of input in this along with Kirk, Reggie and Jimmy.
I'm a DI geek and have my done my share of recordings...Years ago several of us bass players did a DI shoot out in one of the larger studios in Boston (the defunct Squid Hell) running through a Neve.
There where lot of good tones BUT nothing sat on a track like the REDDI I mean NOTHING.
It's thicker on track by far and you can really hear IMHO in the upper registers. I know out of the 5 of us there I owned the REDDI already and 3 out 4 guys went out and bought them.
I'm a DI geek and have my done my share of recordings...Years ago several of us bass players did a DI shoot out in one of the larger studios in Boston (the defunct Squid Hell) running through a Neve.
There where lot of good tones BUT nothing sat on a track like the REDDI I mean NOTHING.
It's thicker on track by far and you can really hear IMHO in the upper registers. I know out of the 5 of us there I owned the REDDI already and 3 out 4 guys went out and bought them.
Hey, I don't need a DI of this quality and have no dog in this fight, but somebody please clue me. I've often seen references, here and elsewhere, to the Cinemag transformer. What is special about this component?
Again, I'm not disputing that it's magic. Just asking for education about the nature of the magic.
Again, I'm not disputing that it's magic. Just asking for education about the nature of the magic.
I made myself a Reddi clone that cost around 250€ to make. Worth every cent, I like it very much.
Like others have said, $750 is a good sales price for something that has $300 in parts in it. Actually very good. Unless you star selling directly online - without distributors - then you can probably take around 30% off the equation. The problem is once you star selling online and don't put in a cut for the distributors in your price structure then you are screwed if you want to sell trough distributors.
What do you think there is to get? You claim to have used one, so if you don't think they are worth the money after hearing one with your own ears, what words could someone use to make you change your mind?
As to price, go start your own business manufacturing something and see how much you have to charge.
I've posted it before, but I don't get these "I don't get it" threads. You tried something; you didn't like it; what is there to get? I don't like Mercedes Benz. I drove my brother's many times. I don't go on car forums and let everyone know I don't like them, think they are over priced and ask if I'm missing something. I just drive my Jeep.
It's a simple product that does its job very well.There's a reason why a top chef spends what they spend on a good set of knives or a top carpenter spends on tools. Buy the best and have no regrets. If you would rather not spend that amount of money for a DI box with a tube there are other lower cost options. I have the Radial Firefly. I've used it to record, and for live performance and it serves me very well. Ampeg, Demeter, and Aguillar also have very highly regarded tube DI boxes for less than the REDDI too.
There isn't anything extraordinary in terms of materials that Cinemag uses in their products that nobody else has. The experience that the designers have is important. Cinemag is a relative small company that will work closely with the client to design the product that they want.
There is nothing simple in designing a transformer that sounds good. Technology and modeling can only take you so far. Then comes listening tests, making small changes, more listening. It's an iterative process. In the end, there are cost tradeoffs as in any product when when it comes to the output transformer, you want everything that you can put into it.
One advantage of the big transformer that's in the REDDI is reduced distortion in the low end. That helps with clarity. Multiple notes don't smear. Don't get me wrong. Every device has a sonic signature. A vintage Neve sounds like a Neve. People seek that out. The REDDI is no different in that respect. That character is what can make a product. In a design you want character, but not too much. Finding a balance is one of the challenges because there are always tradeoffs.
The REDDI also has a low noise floor. The power supply design is studio grade. The tube was chosen for it's low noise and relatively linear behavior.
All these parts come together to make the product something that people turn to.
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Um...yes. I really do think you don't get it. Because the "it" you're talking about isn't what you think it is - nor (in the real world) does it quite work the way you think it should.
The justification for a price is determined by the buyer - not the seller. If a buyer considers it "worth it" (for whatever reason) - they buy. If not, they don't.
We live in a market driven economy. So there's no such thing as an absolute price/value standard. It's all relative.
Take professional athletes. Are these guys worth the multi-million dollar contracts some of them sign?
In a 'free' market the answer is: so long as somebody is willing to pay what you're asking, you are "worth" exactly what you can get. Not a penny more. And not a penny less.
Note: I don't know if this helps you any, but the price of a high quality audio transformer such as gets used in a good DI box runs about $175-$200 in unit quantities. Even if the DI maker is ordering in quantity, I don't think the price of one of those transformers is going to be that much less since a DI is somewhat of a specialty product. So it's not like they're going to be selling thousands of them a month.
And to answer the possible question as to why those transformers are so expensive...just go back to the top of this post and re-read the first part.
The justification for a price is determined by the buyer - not the seller. If a buyer considers it "worth it" (for whatever reason) - they buy. If not, they don't.
We live in a market driven economy. So there's no such thing as an absolute price/value standard. It's all relative.
Take professional athletes. Are these guys worth the multi-million dollar contracts some of them sign?
In a 'free' market the answer is: so long as somebody is willing to pay what you're asking, you are "worth" exactly what you can get. Not a penny more. And not a penny less.
Note: I don't know if this helps you any, but the price of a high quality audio transformer such as gets used in a good DI box runs about $175-$200 in unit quantities. Even if the DI maker is ordering in quantity, I don't think the price of one of those transformers is going to be that much less since a DI is somewhat of a specialty product. So it's not like they're going to be selling thousands of them a month.
And to answer the possible question as to why those transformers are so expensive...just go back to the top of this post and re-read the first part.
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Too many cats flaming the OP. I thought the question was valid.
I had one and sold it because I play live now in a covers band but when I needed a DI for recording, it was simply the best tone I have ever heard. If you don't think the best tone is worth $750 then don't buy it but if you haven't used one before then I am not really sure why you think you're qualified to judge that.
Just buy a cheaper unit that has the same or better performance for the sound you want.
Then laugh at all the people to got ripped off that gave you a hard time about it.
Seriously, some things owned on TB are just status symbols between people on the forum. Some aren't. Find what you like at the price you're comfortable at and laugh all the way to the bank with the rest instead of playing that game.
I find the majority of responses you got absolutely trashy and just childishly pretentious. Just shameful for people who supposedly have enough talent to require gear like that. A few people did have really great responses though.
Then laugh at all the people to got ripped off that gave you a hard time about it.
Seriously, some things owned on TB are just status symbols between people on the forum. Some aren't. Find what you like at the price you're comfortable at and laugh all the way to the bank with the rest instead of playing that game.
I find the majority of responses you got absolutely trashy and just childishly pretentious. Just shameful for people who supposedly have enough talent to require gear like that. A few people did have really great responses though.
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