REDDI Tube DI Mega Thread . Potential megathread that is.

[Jim C]

With you; I just didn't hear THAT much difference in the MP3 clips.
Maybe others did; might be a good test in a different thread.

I haven't used a REEDI but I have spent 5 solid years working 60 hours a week in a 24 track studio back when they used 2" tape. The countryman has its' place as well as other DI's (remember when active Sescom's were all the rage?) many tube pre-amps for MI use, channel strips, Putecs. etc.
They all sound good as does a mic'd cabinet for a rock / r/b application.
None of the bands that we all loved had this DI and those records stand up IMO.
I've only mixed live sound up to 10,000 people.

If we took a group of non owners to your average 500 - 5,000 seat hall and flipped the bass input during a show from one DI to another, and the room acoustics allowed a significant change in the bass tone (asuming corrective EQ), I would be surprised.

Studio, whole different deal.
Many project studios in my area can't afford this type of gear and the big studios have nearly disappeared.
Will make it a point to try a REDDI soon though.

 

[JimmyM]

I'll chalk that up to my badass consistency as a player...thank you

 

[Jim C]

OK, that made me laugh and I do think you are a very consistent player (at least based on the clips)

 

[Son of Bovril]

I agree with what Jim is saying in that at your average show the DI tone difference will not be enough for the audience to notice, but having tried the REDDI, I can say that in a studio environment it will make a big difference to your recorded tone and can even see it being used on guitar channels as well.

That said, I also believe that if even only you, the player can hear the difference in tone on stage and it makes you feel more confident in your role as a bass player then it is worth the money from that aspect alone. Think of it as buying a nice suit for a job interview

 

[Downunderwonder]

I bought a nice suit for job interviews 20 years back. I still have it but I can't quite fit. So close and yet so far.

I get the recording tool advantage. Live, not so sure if you have low volume on stage and sound guys worth a damn to take a mic for highs and DI your sub frequencies.

 

[JimmyM]

I used to buy into the idea that the live environment makes stuff like the REDDI overkill for gigs. Then I got one And it's the same reason I quit using DI's and went to a cab mic before the REDDI...I notice a distinct lack of balls in most DI's. Go up on the high notes with a regular DI and you might as well be playing guitar. The bottom falls out. With the REDDI, every note on the neck has as much weight as any other. That's pretty important playing oldies because the bass is often in a higher register than subsequent music.

So the subtleties that are said to be lost at a gig sure seem like they pop right out to me, even with not so great PA's. I'm sure you can tell the subtleties between your favorite amp and one that's not your favorite on a gig. I don't see why PA is any different.

 

[Peter Montessi]

I used to buy into the idea that the live environment makes stuff like the REDDI overkill for gigs. Then I got one And it's the same reason I quit using DI's and went to a cab mic before the REDDI...I notice a distinct lack of balls in most DI's. Go up on the high notes with a regular DI and you might as well be playing guitar. The bottom falls out. With the REDDI, every note on the neck has as much weight as any other. That's pretty important playing oldies because the bass is often in a higher register than subsequent music.

So the subtleties that are said to be lost at a gig sure seem like they pop right out to me, even with not so great PA's. I'm sure you can tell the subtleties between your favorite amp and one that's not your favorite on a gig. I don't see why PA is any different.

I think what needs to be addressed is this:

Is the REDDI over-kill on a live performance?

The answer can only come from the player him/herself.
Yes, you could have the room differences and the crowd making a difference as to the over-all sound/tone and the FOH.
I know we would all like to satisfy EVERYONE and that is a noble concept but please take a look at it this way.
In order to accomplish that final goal there has to be a number of things. ( not in any order just things that have to come together before hand)
1, GREAT songs/material
2, GREAT arrangements
3, GREAT performances
4, GREAT players

Now the part about great players:
I think (and this is just MY opinion) even if you have GREAT players the things that make them what they are is their talent. If all that is in place then I know for a FACT they would play differently/uninspired if their sound is not a good sound to THEM! Hence the Domino Effect!
If the player and the others in the group are happy with their sound they play better individually. Playing better individually equals amazing played material equals more emotions>excitement>performance>etc.

So is ANY piece of gear better than another ....maybe.
This is a highly subjective question and calls for a highly subjective answer.

Bottom line is, if a piece works for YOU and it inspires you to play better then isn't it all worth it in the end?

Just my 2 cents,
Peter

 

[Jim C]

Is the REDDI over-kill on a live performance?

The answer can only come from the player him/herself.
So is ANY piece of gear better than another ....maybe.
This is a highly subjective question and calls for a highly subjective answer.

Peter

Well said.
I do think that we need to define what a DI box is.
To me, it is a device that changes the line level output of a bass PUP to mic level for use with an audio console without imparting any tonal changes to include distortion, limited frequency response, etc.

As with any pre-amp or amplifier design the most accurate representation would be equivelant to a straight wire.

I think many would agree that on the surface, just using a transformer to change impedance may not offer the best performance for capturing the raw tone of the instrument.
Conversely, many items that are sold as a "soniccally pure" actually impart some tonal changes (which can also be described as distortion or an effect).

I certainly have no issues with this and can favor a Neve transformer input for bass or jazz vocals over say a SSL non-transformer input for say drum mics. Both are top quality devices which measure out well with an O'scope but do reproduce sound differently (I assume mainly due to transient response).

So with this said, either a Countryman or REDDI could be considered sonically pure or an effects device depending on what you are looking for.

My initial think was based on this add copy:
"Inspired by the glorious sound of the Ampeg B-15 tube bass amp, its 6N1-P tube-driven amplifier feeds signal directly into a hefty custom output transformer, which is key to providing a harmonically rich tone. Its wide-bandwidth design from 20Hz to 60kHz reduces in-band phase shift, which results in greater detail and realism in the audible spectrum."

I've never thought that a B-15 was particularly flat in frequency response and doubt it gets anywhere close to flat above say 5K.
With that said, I do like the tone of a B-15 whether you consider the repsonse as flat, altered, distorted, or otherwise. It does have soul and mojo no matter what the test equipment says.
Sounds like the REDDI has this same mojo.
Peter, I'm assume your device is patented. Can you tell us why your box sounds differently than others from a design standpoint?

 

[JimmyM]

Well said.
I do think that we need to define what a DI box is.
To me, it is a device that changes the line level output of a bass PUP to mic level for use with an audio console without imparting any tonal changes to include distortion, limited frequency response, etc.

As with any pre-amp or amplifier design the most accurate representation would be equivelant to a straight wire.

So why not just go straight into the board with a wire? Because it sounds like crap, that's why. And that's why there are 200 DI's and preamps on the market...to make you THINK they're giving you the sound of a straight wire when, in fact, there's a lot of circuitry involved to give you that illusion. But anyone who's done a straight wire can tell you why nobody does it.

So with this said, either a Countryman or REDDI could be considered sonically pure or an effects device depending on what you are looking for.

My initial think was based on this add copy:
"Inspired by the glorious sound of the Ampeg B-15 tube bass amp, its 6N1-P tube-driven amplifier feeds signal directly into a hefty custom output transformer, which is key to providing a harmonically rich tone. Its wide-bandwidth design from 20Hz to 60kHz reduces in-band phase shift, which results in greater detail and realism in the audible spectrum."

I've never thought that a B-15 was particularly flat in frequency response and doubt it gets anywhere close to flat above say 5K.
With that said, I do like the tone of a B-15 whether you consider the repsonse as flat, altered, distorted, or otherwise. It does have soul and mojo no matter what the test equipment says.
Sounds like the REDDI has this same mojo.

Well if you're going to do it, might as well do it right But while the B-15 CAB rolls off highs at 5k, the head doesn't. You can get Marcus Miller tone out of it if that's your thing. The REDDI isn't designed to sound like a mic'ed B-15...it's designed to sound like a speaker DI'd B-15. Big difference.

 

[Highpost]

No reservation for Jim c ! I like where this is going !

 

[Peter Montessi]

Hi Jim C,

First, a DI (to ME) is anything that will take a signal to Mic level.

I'm sure there are units out there that are neutral in color and there are some that impart color..........Doesn't make ANY of them good or bad....just a matter of taste. And there is no such thing as a box that will NOT introduce some kind of color.
ANYTHING you place between the source and your DAW/Console/etc will introduce SOMETHING.
Is this Bad?
I don't think it's either good or bad.
I look at it this way...........If everyone liked the same things ....how boring would the world be?
The same colors, the same breakfast/lunch/car/etc.

The choices we have today in almost EVERYTHING except Death and Taxes, makes us who we are and to quote:
"makes the world go round" contrary to MONEY or LOVE

Your question on the transformers in general.
Yes, part of what they do is switch impedance but they will also allow you to balance a signal and yes, they will introduce some tonal differences as well. (input and or output)
They also help reduce or exclude any external hum/buzz.
Ex:
A steel output transformer will be a tad darker then let's say a nickel transformer and this will depend on the windings and design of THAT transformer. But generally the nickel is (IMO) more neutral and produces more air (if you will)
The Transformer in the REDDI is a custom wound transformer made by Cinemag just for the REDDI.
I went thru a ton of different designs with Cinemag on this topic. (more than I care to pay for)
But to me it was all worth the time and expense.

The REDDI is about as straight wired as I would like to see.

But we were looking for a certain sound and I think we nailed it.....well as close as possible.

From a design standpoint what makes the REDDI different from others is the choice in parts that we selected.
Some manufacturers (not all) are sort of forced into using parts that cost less so they can mass produce at an effective rate resulting in a lower price to the enduser and higher profit for the company.
Which I think is great if it sounds good or even if it doesn't!
We are a Mom and Pop operation and costs always plays an important factor in production.
BUT to be head and shoulders above the rest I decided to take the high road and use better materials and hand build each unit. Plus spend the capital in R&D to insure a better quality product that will hopefully last a lifetime if treated properly.

Please don't read into what I have written as the "spoken word" and that I feel that we have the ONLY GREAT product out there.
It's not that at all.

I'm just proud of what we do and feel we have given the world a tool to aid the arts.

It has taken the REDDI almost 12 years to get to this point.
I still get chills when I see it on TV or hear it on great music done by great artists. OR even hear some of the things guys are saying on this Forum!

Quick story for you (if you want to continue reading).

2 years ago my wife and I were at a friends house for Thanksgiving. They have 3 kids and one of them I hired for a few days to help with the office work and to help his Mom and Dad regain their sanity. So he saw what we did and the products we produce. One of which was the REDDI cause it caught his eye (being red and kinda out of the norm for around here).
So he had the TV on and noticed that there was Lenny Kravitz? playing on stage and saw the REDDIs.
He came running out to get me and show me that the REDDI was on TV.
Well for me that was a thrill to see the first time BUT during the day and the show, he came out about 5 other times telling me he saw the REDDI AGAIN and AGAIN with different acts.
Since then I had a game I played with myself to see how many late night shows I could get to use the REDDI.
At one point I had all of them except Letterman.

So to rap this up, cause I am seeing phones light up and emails coming in.
I hope I explained the best I could for you Jim.

I don't always have time to spend here but I will try and get back when I can.

Thanks so much for taking an interest in our REDDI and I hope you have a chance to try it out some day.
If you do PLEASE shoot me an email and let me know what you think okay?

Have fun,
Peter

 

[Highpost]

Thus the man has spoken! Sweet! I Love it when the makers are involved.

 

[Jim C]

Thanks Peter
Interesting buisiness plan and culture at your shop.
Congrats on all the good wishes and endorsements.
Any new products on the horizon you'd like to mention?

 

[Fafner]

JimmyM said " I notice a distinct lack of balls in most DI's. Go up on the high notes with a regular DI and you might as well be playing guitar. The bottom falls out."


I felt the same problem! So I landed here in this forum. The REDDI and perhaps an EQ like the Barber Linden or with another frequency response the Catalinbread SFT give me a good feeling without any dead spots-like tones

 

[RocketMusic]

^^ That lack of lows on high notes is exactly what I first heard many years ago when I switched from an Ampeg SVT 3 Pro head to my Alembic F1X/Crest CA9 setup. To this day, I remember the exact thought that ran through my head as I tried out the F1X in the store: "I've now got bottom all over the neck!"

And to me, that's what the REDDI delivers in the studio AND live.

 

[Dave W]

To me, it is a device that changes the line level output of a bass PUP to mic level

Just nitpicking terminology here, but bass pickups do not output a line level signal. They put out an instrument level signal.

 

[svtb15]

I had the exact same experience when changing from my trusty rig that I used for years consisting of a my 19070s Alembic F2B and Crown PSA2 to an Ampeg svt3 or Trace Elliot Rig about 8 years ago.. That pre/ Poweramp set up had smooth buttery everything.... Still have the F2B in my recording rack though


\

^^ That lack of lows on high notes is exactly what I first heard many years ago when I switched from an Ampeg SVT 3 Pro head to my Alembic F1X/Crest CA9 setup. To this day, I remember the exact thought that ran through my head as I tried out the F1X in the store: "I've now got bottom all over the neck!"

And to me, that's what the REDDI delivers in the studio AND live.

 

[svtb15]

Peter. That's a great story... And i know what you mean. . Because i do the same thing when i see the REDDI on TV or when i see our buddy the bass builders instruments too...

Have a great weekend.. Taking my REDDI to some Winstar dates..
weehooo.. Im gonna gamble that Whole $20 bill I have in my pocket

Quick story for you (if you want to continue reading).

2 years ago my wife and I were at a friends house for Thanksgiving. They have 3 kids and one of them I hired for a few days to help with the office work and to help his Mom and Dad regain their sanity. So he saw what we did and the products we produce. One of which was the REDDI cause it caught his eye (being red and kinda out of the norm for around here).
So he had the TV on and noticed that there was Lenny Kravitz? playing on stage and saw the REDDIs.
He came running out to get me and show me that the REDDI was on TV.
Well for me that was a thrill to see the first time BUT during the day and the show, he came out about 5 other times telling me he saw the REDDI AGAIN and AGAIN with different acts.
Since then I had a game I played with myself to see how many late night shows I could get to use the REDDI.
At one point I had all of them except Letterman.

So to rap this up, cause I am seeing phones light up and emails coming in.
I hope I explained the best I could for you Jim.

I don't always have time to spend here but I will try and get back when I can.

Thanks so much for taking an interest in our REDDI and I hope you have a chance to try it out some day.
If you do PLEASE shoot me an email and let me know what you think okay?

Have fun,
Peter

 

[JimmyM]

Kirk, you sound like a gambler on a level with me. Our drummer is a big loud Italian guy who loves to gamble, and he always tells me I lose gambling because I gamble with scared money. Of course I do!

 

[svtb15]

Yeah.. I figure Im gigging a casino i am there to make money not loose it... hahah. So i limit myself to $20 in the penny slots..... Were doing the main room at winstar.. nice places... real clean and great gear! but my main FOH guy is out with bonnie raitt this month so we have a sub FOH guy.. ughhhhh.. Paul our steady guy is a bass player too and always gets a great sound up front for me.. Im still bringing the REDDI on these dates.... and $20 to hit the penny slots....

Kirk, you sound like a gambler on a level with me. Our drummer is a big loud Italian guy who loves to gamble, and he always tells me I lose gambling because I gamble with scared money. Of course I do!