Regain "punch" lost when using OD effects?

[BigBobbyBass]

Regain "punch" lost when using OD effects?

Parallel Processing ...

1 - First I run into an equalizer

2 - Then I split the signal into 4 parallel signals with a rolls mixer.

3 - I run one of the parallel lines into the Line6 bass pod where I model an acoustic 360 with a rat or big muff distortion pedal. I use this to get a retro growlly distorted sound. Or I also model an Ampeg fliptop with the Rat Distortion pedal. And I also Model an old Marshall amp. With the bass pod I can get a wide range of clean or dirty sounds and various effects and model different amps and speaker cabinets.

4 - The second parallel signal goes into a MXR bass di+. I use this pedal to get a clean modern sound. It also has a distortion button that can give a moderate to extreme amount of modern distortion.

5 - The third parallel signal goes into a Marshall Guv'nor. This gives me an old 60s marshall stack sound. This can go from a small amount of distortion to an over the top marshall sound. This effect can give you a the classic Jack Bruce Cream tone.

6 - The fourth parallel signal goes into a Tech21 VT Bass pedal. With this effect I get a slightly dirty Ampeg SVT bass amp sound with a tube like growl.

7 - Then I remix the 4 signals back together and run it into a bass amp, or pa, or studio mixer. Because the signals are parallel I can mix clean and overdriven sounds together and still get effect and a sound that punches through the mix.

Schematic diagram of my effects.

Here are 2 pedals I am considering adding to my effects board.

This makes my head hurt..but I'm glad it works for you!

 

[DavC]

I had the B7K ... I would think with it's blend and EQ you could get your punch back ... I wanted something a bit smoother more tubelike than actual OD/Dist .... went with a Barbershop , always on , get it set right and it will follow your playing dynamics pretty well ... dig in for more tubeness

 

[bikeplate]

Buy a good one w a blend control

 

[Hagel123]

Don't use a di as a dirt pedal. Buy a pharaoh or something similar, and use that. Using a di as your main sound source tends to make everything sound the same. Using pedals helps develop a unique voice for your rig. The di is like using active pickups and an sd-1. It's just bland

 

[dannster]

Boss CS-3. Punch.
Even a boost pedal would help.
Strange you can't find a punchy setting with the VT DI. That thing is punchy as hell. The OD needs to be quite subtle though.

 

[48thStreetCustom]

Have you tired the EP Booster? Even at the lowest setting it adds punch. For me it's an always on pedal.

 

[blindrabbit]

Weird...I use dirt pedals to *increase* my punch. Maybe I'm just using really good quality bass friendly pedals - ss/bs, W&C, Wounded Paw, etc. If I wasn't running dirt, I'd be creamed in my current band mix.

 

[skulletwhip]

Yo yo OP, how's your amp EQ? To me, punch lives in the mids. Are you scooping them at the amp?

 

[wpc1996]

You have another vote for darkglass here, I haven't bought mine yet I plan on getting the b3k and darkglass effects I think are the best overdrives because they retain everything we love in our tones, low end, and punch and then some

 

[tbirdsp]

Yo yo OP, how's your amp EQ? To me, punch lives in the mids. Are you scooping them at the amp?

Not at all - hate mid scoop tone. I have a GK MB Fusion 500 - treble and bass "flat" (12:00) high mids boosted some, low mids maybe cut a tad or flat. Never use the "contour", hate that sound.
MIM Active Deluxe Jazz V, tone controls flat and volume maxed.

 

[sunbeast]

The punchiest ODs I've used in my rig are the Tronographic Rusty Box and any of the Darkglass pedals. I've had the B3K, B7K, VMT, and now am happily using the VMT Deluxe- I found the B3K and B7K to have a fairly compressed OD sound but with a very effective Blend control that makes them very punchy, whereas I don't find the Vintage or the Rusty Box to really need blending to retain punchiness into medium-gain drive tones. I play fingerstyle and with a pick, and always retain a punchy tone!

As mentioned, the Sansamp pedals tend to be very compressed and fairly scooped, both of which rob you of your punch/attack.

 

[skulletwhip]

Not at all - hate mid scoop tone. I have a GK MB Fusion 500 - treble and bass "flat" (12:00) high mids boosted some, low mids maybe cut a tad or flat. Never use the "contour", hate that sound.
MIM Active Deluxe Jazz V, tone controls flat and volume maxed.

I love your hatred of scoop.

Try this though. Bump the lo mids a hair. To me that's were the kick to chest sound is.

 

[tbirdsp]

I should probably try bumping the active mid up on my bass when using OD. I tend to run everything centered, just so it's the same starting point every time.
The VT Bass v2 sounds pretty good. I really don't like the VT DI though - the "bite" switch engaged is just nasty high end, but if you turn it off it tends to lose something.
I'm probably just pedal-clueless and/or being picky That Brimstone XD-2 with the crossover and 2 channels looks like it might do what I want - may sell off some other stuff and try one.

 

[tbirdsp]

I love your hatred of scoop.

Now all we have to do is convince 90% of the sound engineers that bass guitar shouldn't sound like the subs in these cars you hear thumping and rattling down the road

 

[blindrabbit]

Not at all - hate mid scoop tone. I have a GK MB Fusion 500 - treble and bass "flat" (12:00) high mids boosted some, low mids maybe cut a tad or flat. Never use the "contour", hate that sound.
MIM Active Deluxe Jazz V, tone controls flat and volume maxed.

Be advised then that Darkglass pedals are the definition of scooped.

Also note that knobs at noon on your amp have absolutely nothing to do with "flatness". The way you have your GK set sounds to me like you'd be getting a pretty decent scoop out of the low mids anyway, which would then mean that a Darkglass pedal would work perfectly for you to accentuate that tone. It could be that what you aren't liking are pedals that bring back low mids into your sound, and that for you, "punch" is high mids. For me, "punch" is low mids and lows, so I'd never use a GK amp or a DG pedal for my tone...too grindy.

 

[mmbongo]

Be advised then that Darkglass pedals are the definition of scooped.

Also note that knobs at noon on your amp have absolutely nothing to do with "flatness". The way you have your GK set sounds to me like you'd be getting a pretty decent scoop out of the low mids anyway, which would then mean that a Darkglass pedal would work perfectly for you to accentuate that tone. It could be that what you aren't liking are pedals that bring back low mids into your sound, and that for you, "punch" is high mids. For me, "punch" is low mids and lows, so I'd never use a GK amp or a DG pedal for my tone...too grindy.

Also keep in mind that many amps and many rooms have a huge bump right at 300hz...which is right where the B3K has a slight scoop so that's why it blends so good with anything. Not many people use a spectrum analyzer at a gig.

 

[blindrabbit]

Also keep in mind that many amps and many rooms have a huge bump right at 300hz...which is right where the B3K has a slight scoop so that's why it blends so good with anything. Not many people use a spectrum analyzer at a gig.

Slight scoop, like -35db?

But, no, people don't use spectrum analyzers at a gig. However, none of the DG pedals have ever sounded even remotely good to my ears - nothing against them or those who love them - but I do think in this case it helps the OP to understand what is going on with his amp and pedals and sonic spectrum. I actually think based upon his descriptions the B#K pedals would work great for him and his tone, but by no means is he "not scooped".

 

[mmbongo]

Slight scoop, like -35db?

During your 'selective analyzing', you must have missed the yellow line. I also guarantee that curve looks totally different in a room, or a studio, or coming out of an actual speaker.

 

[sunbeast]

Be advised then that Darkglass pedals are the definition of scooped.

Also note that knobs at noon on your amp have absolutely nothing to do with "flatness". The way you have your GK set sounds to me like you'd be getting a pretty decent scoop out of the low mids anyway, which would then mean that a Darkglass pedal would work perfectly for you to accentuate that tone. It could be that what you aren't liking are pedals that bring back low mids into your sound, and that for you, "punch" is high mids. For me, "punch" is low mids and lows, so I'd never use a GK amp or a DG pedal for my tone...too grindy.

I agree about the inherent voice of the B3K/B7K being fairly scooped sounding (though they can still be dialed in to sound great with the Blend), but definitely no scoop in the Darkglass Vintage- quite the opposite in fact.

 

[boomertech]

During your 'selective analyzing', you must have missed the yellow line. I also guarantee that curve looks totally different in a room, or a studio, or coming out of an actual speaker.

A notch that large is very audible in a room, studio or out of a speaker. Take an EQ and leave everything flat except for the band nearest to 310-330Hz and drop that down 12dB or more. Then take the bands on both sides of that cut and bump them up about 6dB and then play thru it.

That frequency is very near E4 and just outside the standard 4 & 5 string bass fundamental range... so that notch only exists in the harmonic partials of a note. This is a perfect example of why every dirt box design has its own characteristic voice and why it works well for some, but not others.

-Frank